Obama campaigned on transparency in GOVERNMENT. Not posting online every time he takes a ****!

(04-25-2011 07:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 03:12 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  The CBO said the same thing about Ryan's budget too.

First of all, it's not Paul Ryan's Constitutional Duty to propose a budget. Second, Ryan isn't from my state, so I can't vote for or against him. Third, your interpretation of the CBOs analysis isn't Correct. There is a difference between having a different projection and having unfunded liabilities. Obama's OMB specifically admitted that it had made unfunded proposals and counted on other savings based merely on the "pattern of practice"... http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog.

Quote:If that's your issue, then you can't believe a thing any Republican says either, so I don't know what your argument is.

Meh... there's a difference between a difference of opinion and deceit. My argument is that honesty is important to me. I wouldn't trust a Republican who wouldn't provide basic background information either. You and I can both look at something and have an honest difference of opinion on what it means... but there's NO WAY you propose a budget claiming it costs "x", and then when the CBO says it costs "y", you can say, that's because we weren't planning on doing our big infrastructure investment unless someone else figured out how to pay for it. That's not a budget item... and it's not subject to interpretation. If you didn't have a plan to fund it, it shouldn't be in your budget.

Quote:Here's the thing. If you think GOP members really believe he's a Kenyan, how in the world can you believe anything they say or vote for them, if they aren't willing to do something about it? Do you really think Republicans are that pathetic, they would just let a Kenyan stay in office? Where's the respect for the GOP?

I don't know WHAT "the GOP" thinks, and don't really care. I don't vote for a party.... but no, I haven't heard many if any politician claim he is a Kenyan.

Quote:Your complaint is that you can't trust Obama. How can you trust a GOP member who won't stand up for the constitution and the country he serves? You can't have it both ways.

and the rest of your argument... Your own straw man. The people who believe he's Kenyan ARE screaming it from the hilltops... There are lawsuits filed. That's how it works here... so who are you pointing fingers at?? MOST of us just question the pattern of deceit... I voted for McCain, who produced his birth certificate AND school transcripts... I voted for 43, Clinton, 41 and RR... who I'm confident ALSO all produced their birth certificates and transcripts when asked.

Who exactly are you talking about?? Republican Legislators who believe he is a Kenyan and aren't trying to get him thrown out as a result? Can you NAME someone?? If so, I can't imagine supporting them.

First the CBO didn't back Ryan's either. They just ran the numbers for him which they said were flawed, numbers that were clearly insane. It was no different. Ryan just isn't in a position to actually make it happen yet. A lie is a lie.

Moving on, so you don't believe most Republican leaders think Obama is a Kenyan?

These are guys with millions of dollars, and a full staff of people to help them on a daily basis. Guys who would benefit more than anyone else if they found out Obama is not an American citizen or had anything to hide in his time in school. Yet.. not a word from them?

So.. are they just terribly inept at their jobs.. or do they know Obama is lying and refuse to do anything about it?

That's your choice here. You're either saying Republicans are completely worthless, and so inept at their job, that some random people on the internet are able to figure out something as important as this, but these guys, with all those resources can't figure it out.

Or.. they do know he's lying and aren't doing anything about it. Which is it?

It's at this point, I suggest people look at door 3. The most obvious answer, that GOP members aren't useless and they know he's an American citizen, they know his school records check out, so they don't waste their time on silly conspiracy theories that would make them look foolish.

Get over the paranoia and actually think it through. People can't support the GOP if they believe these comical conspiracy theories. They simply can't.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/04/ridin...razor.html

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

What if they tear the mask off Obama and see that he is Bush?

(04-26-2011 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Lastly, do you have a cite for the senate visitors list claim? I can't seem to find anything on this to know whether this is a common practice or not. Thanks.

Been a while since I read up on it. Apparantly he wouldn't release anything. Claims he didn't know where anything from his 8 years in the state senate were. Which I'm sure is completely plausible to you?

Obama Says he can't find records

Quote:Obama's statement that he has no papers from his time in the Illinois statehouse — he left in 2004 — stands in stark contrast to the massive Clinton file stored at the National Archives: an estimated 78 million pages of documents, plus 20 million e-mail messages, packed into 36,000 boxes. While any file from Obama's time in the state Senate would be far smaller, the idea that no papers exist at all is questioned by one historian.

"Most of those guys do keep this stuff, especially the favorable stuff. They've all got egos," said Taylor Pensoneau, a historian who has written about Illinois legislators and governors and worked with them as a lobbyist for the coal industry. "It goes in scrapbooks or maybe boxes. I don't think it's normal practice to say it's all discarded."

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Obama campaigned on transparency in GOVERNMENT. Not posting online every time he takes a ****!

If this is how you see it, you're crazy.

(04-26-2011 11:16 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  First the CBO didn't back Ryan's either. They just ran the numbers for him which they said were flawed, numbers that were clearly insane. It was no different. Ryan just isn't in a position to actually make it happen yet. A lie is a lie.

You're delusional.

I'm not talking about differences in projections... I'm talking about unfunded budget items. Read the damn link from the OMB (part of the White House). Sure, they note the difference in projections... just like Ryan's, but they SPECIFICALLY SAY:

There are two main reasons why our projections differ. First, is that the CBO re-estimate does not reflect two important budget policies. In the budget, the President laid out a plan to make a historic investment in our transportation infrastructure in order that our country can keep pace with our competitors in the global economy. We were crystal clear that this spending had to be paid for with a bipartisan funding source and that if one was not identified, that the Administration would not support making these investments. This way there would be no risk that this spending would add to the deficit. CBO chose to treat this spending as a free-standing initiative, not in tandem with our commitment to pay for it – which is not the policy we proposed.
[/quote]
You can't propose something in your budget without funding it. Pretty simple. That's the difference between campaigning and leading.

Quote:Similarly, the budget proposes that we fully pay for the cost of fixing the Medicare physician payment formula so that reimbursement rates are not cut dramatically which could lead to doctors refusing to treat Medicare beneficiaries. In past years, this fix was not paid for, but last year, the President signed into law a fully paid for fix for one year, and our budget identified tens of billions of dollars in specific health care savings that will pay for another two years. With three years of the fix paid for, we believe that this establishes a pattern of practice – critically important in scoring policies -- that strengthens our commitment to work with Congress on a permanent solution. Again, CBO chooses not to make this assumption.

Because we found ways to fund it this year, we feel confident we'll find ways to fund it in the future. That's a campaign promise, not a budget. It's faulty accounting, not differences in assumptions. You can't "assume" someone else will come up with funding, or that "you'll be able to work it out" in a budget.

Quote:The second main difference between our and CBO’s analysis is that our economic assumptions differ.

THIS is the only part you want to talk about.

The White House ITSELF is saying this... that there are unfunded liabilities in the budget... not some Republican website.

It's really quite simple. We know less about the man who holds the office of POTUS than we do/did about any other past President.

Why? Because he won't let them know anything about who he really IS.

Trump is useful only to keep the issue being talked about. He would be a disaster as a politician and he's not at all conservative. This issue is political poison to most politicians and they know it. Still a rather large % of the population has an unease about who this guy is really and wonder about his birth certificate and his background.

My best guess is that some of Obama's writings during his school and college years would do a great job of informing us on his REAL personality and his beliefs. I'm guessing anti-American, racist leanings, lover of Marxist ideology, etc. He certainly wouldn't want that to get out. The possibility of other embarrassing items like his grades perhaps didn't REALLY meet the Harvard standards but he got in via favor of somebody connected. While the media did a great job of covering for O and whitewashing his associations with Trinity United Church and with Bill Ayers (remember when O said "he (Ayers) was just a guy I knew from down the street?") Wasn't exactly accurate, now, was it?

These are just speculative ideas on what and why he is hiding his basic biographical info. It informs too much about him.

(04-26-2011 12:23 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

Hey...my stalker makes an appearance.

Now crawl back under your rock!

(04-26-2011 02:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 12:23 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

Hey...my stalker makes an appearance.

Now crawl back under your rock!

You followed me here Simple Tom. Remember?

(04-26-2011 12:33 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Lastly, do you have a cite for the senate visitors list claim? I can't seem to find anything on this to know whether this is a common practice or not. Thanks.

Been a while since I read up on it. Apparantly he wouldn't release anything. Claims he didn't know where anything from his 8 years in the state senate were. Which I'm sure is completely plausible to you?

Obama Says he can't find records

Quote:Obama's statement that he has no papers from his time in the Illinois statehouse — he left in 2004 — stands in stark contrast to the massive Clinton file stored at the National Archives: an estimated 78 million pages of documents, plus 20 million e-mail messages, packed into 36,000 boxes. While any file from Obama's time in the state Senate would be far smaller, the idea that no papers exist at all is questioned by one historian.

"Most of those guys do keep this stuff, especially the favorable stuff. They've all got egos," said Taylor Pensoneau, a historian who has written about Illinois legislators and governors and worked with them as a lobbyist for the coal industry. "It goes in scrapbooks or maybe boxes. I don't think it's normal practice to say it's all discarded."

I agree he should have kept them...but what would they entail anyway? A bunch of letters from constituents? What would that prove or serve to vet him in anyway?

And there was no law that he had to keep anything was there?

Anything he did in the state senate would have been recorded and in the public record I would imagine.

Again, not trying to dismiss this...he should have kept all the records...but a state Senator is quite different than a president or a first lady which are bound by the National Archives.

(04-26-2011 02:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 12:23 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

Hey...my stalker makes an appearance.

Now crawl back under your rock!

You followed me here Simple Tom. Remember?

Yeah...keep believing that Mr. Ego. LMFAO!

I found this forum when someone posted in another forum about someone having a huge positive rating because they spent time in The Spin Room...which I had no idea even existed at NCAAbbs until then.

You really are delusionsal aren't you..LOL

(04-26-2011 02:25 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 12:23 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

Hey...my stalker makes an appearance.

Now crawl back under your rock!

You followed me here Simple Tom. Remember?

Yeah...keep believing that Mr. Ego. LMFAO!

I found this forum when someone posted in another forum about someone having a huge positive rating because they spent time in The Spin Room...which I had no idea even existed at NCAAbbs until then.

You really are delusionsal aren't you..LOL

fol·low /ˈfɒloʊ/
[fol-oh] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to come after in sequence, order of time,

You really do struggle w/ simple words.

(04-26-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:25 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:19 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 02:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 12:23 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Simple Tom lost another logical argument. Why am I not surprised?

Hey...my stalker makes an appearance.

Now crawl back under your rock!

You followed me here Simple Tom. Remember?

Yeah...keep believing that Mr. Ego. LMFAO!

I found this forum when someone posted in another forum about someone having a huge positive rating because they spent time in The Spin Room...which I had no idea even existed at NCAAbbs until then.

You really are delusionsal aren't you..LOL

fol·low /ˈfɒloʊ/
[fol-oh] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to come after in sequence, order of time,

You really do struggle w/ simple words.

When I told him, "He acts like a real prat." He did struggle figuring that out. Just sayin....

(04-26-2011 11:16 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Moving on, so you don't believe most Republican leaders think Obama is a Kenyan?

Once again, I don't CARE what most republican "leaders" think. I don't vote for a party, and i don't know who YOU are calling a leader.

Quote:These are guys with millions of dollars, and a full staff of people to help them on a daily basis. Guys who would benefit more than anyone else if they found out Obama is not an American citizen or had anything to hide in his time in school. Yet.. not a word from them?

So.. are they just terribly inept at their jobs.. or do they know Obama is lying and refuse to do anything about it?

That's your choice here. You're either saying Republicans are completely worthless, and so inept at their job, that some random people on the internet are able to figure out something as important as this, but these guys, with all those resources can't figure it out.

Or.. they do know he's lying and aren't doing anything about it. Which is it?

It's at this point, I suggest people look at door 3. The most obvious answer, that GOP members aren't useless and they know he's an American citizen, they know his school records check out, so they don't waste their time on silly conspiracy theories that would make them look foolish.

Get over the paranoia and actually think it through. People can't support the GOP if they believe these comical conspiracy theories. They simply can't.

Wow... an amazingly contrived conspiracy yourself.

You've stated yourself that he's under no LEGAL obligation to produce these documents. What exactly would you expect these people to do? Break into offices and steal them?

How about door number 4, one that was postulated by me months ago and seems to be gaining speed... that he was born here and attended these schools, but there is something "fuzzy" about it... a name change... a stated religion... grades that don't support the awards he was given... who paid for things... I don't know... SOMETHING that he and his handlers (as opposed to some GOP operative) decided some time ago needed to be hidden, so they did. I don't have any idea what they're hiding or why... but it, on top of his many other broken promises (even those I'm HAPPY he broke), makes me question his integrity.

What exactly is "paranoid" about not trusting a politician?

(04-26-2011 07:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-25-2011 07:01 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Which words are forboten? Make me a list, and I'll let you know? Will making a game out of it hold your intrest for more time than it takes to read this post.

I think we'll start with forboten.

Whatever the hell that is

Yiddish ... verboten --> forbidden, roughly. That's about 5% of my Yiddish vocabulary. Meh... it's actually German.

Huskie, if powerful republicans could find out that Obama was born some place else, so would have Hillary during the primaries. And it's unlikely that just republicans would know Obama's true status, in fact, if there is proof and republicans do know something, then it would be impossible for Dems not to know. Kept hush-hush, but they'd still know.

We've been told Obama is the smartest man in any room he walks into. Prove it. That was an assertion by many on the left. Now I saw prove it. To me, a walnut makes better decisions and displays more openess and honesty.

(04-26-2011 03:40 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Huskie, if powerful republicans could find out that Obama was born some place else, so would have Hillary during the primaries.

The question is, how do you play that? Do you oust Obama and alienate a big chunk of your base? Did Dem leaders fear that (beware Oprah's wrath!) Were there other factors in play?

One thing's certain, it's an issue. Obama's disdain for the law is the issue, and liberals who "loved" liberty and the law from 2000-2008 should be fired up about this too.

Clearly the Republicans didn't find anything though. That's my point. I'm sorry, even as a liberal, I have far too much respect for the GOP and conservatives in general to think they wouldn't have done something if they found out he wasn't an American citizen or there were uncertainties with his school history. Not only that, I have enough respect for the GOP that I'm quite certain they would have found it if there was any evidence suggesting that's the case.

I mean think about what you're suggesting. The GOP is just going to tell the Democratic leadership Obama isn't a citizen, but not actually do anything about it? That's your rationalization for why it's OK to support the GOP? Isn't that still unacceptable, if not even worse? What sense does that make? What are you trying to prove here with that statement?

That's like a boxer telling his opponent.. "yeah.. I heard about that broken nose you got, feel bad for ya. I'll just stick to the body shots, but let's make sure we don't tell the audience. Wouldn't want them to know I'm letting you win."



To your second point, first of all.. how is it relevant how intelligent he is? Talk about a subject change there. Even so, let's say it was relevant, how exactly would I prove such a thing? Follow Obama around, and pass out IQ tests every time he enters a room? Just call up Mensa, see if they'll sponsor the study?

His decision making led to him becoming the POTUS, rising from basically nothing (even more impressive, if not terrible, if he is some Kenyan, Muslim, mind you).

It's not like his name is Barry W. Bush or Barry R. Clinton. He didn't ride on anyone's coattails to get where he's at. Yeah, it helps that he's extremely eloquent, and it was probably the "right" time for a black candidate, you can argue that helped him if you want, I can certainly see where you're coming from if you believe that. You can even argue he's not qualified for the position, but that doesn't change the fact that he got it. You don't get to where he's at all on luck. At some point he was clearly impressing people.

He was successful before he was a presidential candidate. He must be somewhat intelligent. Even intelligent people make disastrous decisions. You can say he's done an awful job as president if you want, but that doesn't mean he's not extremely intelligent.

(04-26-2011 03:59 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  The question is, how do you play that?

You get some low level nobody that works for you and you get him to leak it to Fox news.