So now liberal bloggers are making prank impersonation calls, splattering it around the bowels of the Internet. I'm sure this will result in a Comments Thread explosion on HuffPo and DailyKos.

Well, I guess I gotta hand it to them, mission accomplished - they sure pulled it off. Walker duped.

It's almost about that time to take another 1-2 weeks off from paying attention to the news in such vivid detail, which includes taking a nice weekend escape to warm Florida. I pride myself in being well-informed, but I've got to admit... sometimes a little ignorance is bliss.

(02-23-2011 05:37 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Bull

You understand I haven't read Wisconsin's bill. Only that it's reported that it's very similiar to Ohio's legislation. If you would like I can post SB% here. It's unbelievable in complexity and scope.

Wisconsin's Bill is a budget bill so yes, it going to be over most of our heads but all I have heard, from the union, is that the main problem is the removal of collective bargaining *not* the financial provisions which are modest compared to what you're looking at.

The collective bargaining change would make salary the only thing. No longer could things like benefits, tenure, or what health plan a district uses be counted (right now all districts have to use a health insurer owned by the union which costs a lot more than the other state workers)..

This tenure thing has to stop too. I can not speak for any place other than Ohio, but in Ohio there is NO TENURE!!!!! We are eligible for a continuing contract and people are let go with a continuing contract every year. There is no such thing as teaching tenure in Ohio public schools. This debate will be won how each side frames the debate. This tenure bull**** props up all the time. There is no such thing as an Ohio tenured teacher.

(02-23-2011 04:39 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The Koch bros.

Are certifiable Ayn Rand titans of business, and I appreciate their funding of the Reason Foundation and CATO Institute. Koch isn't looking for a government handout like your liberal buddies ... they just want people to stop stealing from them and telling them what they can and cannot do.

Didn't get far through it, but stopped at the line:

Quote:The governor said he was ratcheting up the pressure on Senate Democrats to return to the Capitol a week after they fled to block the legislation. He said he supported a move to require them to come to the Capitol to pick up their paychecks rather than have them deposited directly.

Can't deny this is a pretty genius idea.

(02-23-2011 04:49 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I don't happen to believe that (1) limiting collecting bargaining to salary issues and (2) making the unions collect their own damn dues is "crushing a union"

I've been in union negotiations once before. The first thing they ask for is having the dues automatically deducted from pay checks. The have nothing to offer in return except a concession from the people they represent and they readily do so. The next thing they ask for is that all workers are required to be in the union. Again, they have nothing to offer in return and give up something from the worker. At this point it's Union +2, Worker -2, Company Even. And there are worker reps in the room while this is happening and they see nothing wrong with it.

(02-23-2011 06:21 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This tenure thing has to stop too. I can not speak for any place other than Ohio, but in Ohio there is NO TENURE!!!!! We are eligible for a continuing contract and people are let go with a continuing contract every year. There is no such thing as teaching tenure in Ohio public schools. This debate will be won how each side frames the debate. This tenure bull**** props up all the time. There is no such thing as an Ohio tenured teacher.

"A report Thursday, about the more than $900,000 in costs one Ohio school district paid to defend its firing of a tenured teacher who taught creationism, may be the opening some state lawmakers have been looking for to revisit - maybe even terminate - a 1941 law that created how teacher tenure works in the Buckeye State."

Teacher might not like to call it tenure but effectively that's what exist. The process for firing an incompetent teacher is so arduous and expensive that they are ever seldom let go..

Link Bull

This firing of a creationist teacher smells like bs. Need the linky.

(02-23-2011 07:35 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This firing of a creationist teacher smells like bs. Need the linky.

Took me about 12 seconds.

I'd like something backing up the "30% hit" myself. If true, it's got to be specific to Machs circumstances. Something he ain't tellin'.

(02-23-2011 08:18 PM)Paul M Wrote:  I'd like something backing up the "30% hit" myself. If true, it's got to be specific to Machs circumstances. Something he ain't tellin'.

This. I'm calling BS cause I'm betting he hasn't even read the bill.

from MLB's thread

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillT...PSC_N.html

I couldn't believe it myself. There's no way it would fly. Your avg. teacher in Ottawa Hills would take a 50% cut. This particular part of the bill can't stand, but it is in there.

sect 124.152

I still don't believe the 900,000. Stories can be misleading or even false. Why not pay the teacher 300 grand and call it a weekend. How in the hell can you spend a million dollars on lawyer fees? Something is wrong. Trust me. Our school got rid of a teacher with a continuing contract two years ago. They just bought him out for less than 25,000. They agreed to give him a standard eva;uation and recommendation if he applied to another district. Something is not right there.

You guys can call it tenure that doesn't mean it is.

Tenure- The status of holding one's position on a permanent basis without periodic contract renewals.

No such thing exists in Ohio.

(02-23-2011 05:08 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  From what I've read the bills in Wisc, NJ, Indiana, and Ohio are similiar in nature if not exact copies of each other. I can speak of Ohio's because I have read Ohio's I have not read Wisconsin's.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

–Pastor Martin Niemöller

Stop being a fuken drama queen. The state cannot afford it. I'd hate to see your budget.

(02-23-2011 10:32 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I still don't believe the 900,000. Stories can be misleading or even false. Why not pay the teacher 300 grand and call it a weekend. How in the hell can you spend a million dollars on lawyer fees? Something is wrong. Trust me. Our school got rid of a teacher with a continuing contract two years ago. They just bought him out for less than 25,000. They agreed to give him a standard eva;uation and recommendation if he applied to another district. Something is not right there.

Maybe becuase a teachers pension is worth *way* more than 300K...

Mach, this is the part of Unions that *sucks* its killing states like NY and Ohio. Long ago Unions got out of the business of making sure the workplace was tolerable and that if you worked hard you could live the American Dream..

(02-23-2011 07:35 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This firing of a creationist teacher smells like bs. Need the linky.

The creationist teacher in this case got fired for branding students with crosses.

How bad does your idea have to be if you can't brainwash 8th graders so that you have to resort to child abuse? Very xian of them. Unfortunately, the fundie creationist sects are well funded, and they are perfectly willing to waste taxpayer dollars in order to spread their B.S.

Reb,

In post #37 there is a direct violation that recently has been brought to my attention. You are willfully subverting the profainty filter. Please refrain from this.