I think Israel would be the perfect place to start cutting back foreign aid. They don't need our money, they have plenty of it. If the aid goes toward feeding starving children somewhere, I can see it. Otherwise I'd expect nothing but foreign investment, where we expect a return out of it.

Freedom fails when democracy dies. Israel does help the US. The virus that destroyed the iraian centrifuges was israeli. And the deaths of the Iranian scientists was an israeli operation. You willing to throw in the towel on Israel are appeasing the Muslim enemy. No good could come of it. It's shallow to think otherwise. Freedom is not free.

(01-30-2011 10:42 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Without our help Israel would be no more. Sure, they seem strong now, but it's because our help. Without us, they'd be slaughtered. The simply do not have the numbers and all this bullsh1t about their presence being the reason for Haji outrage is just that, bullsh1t. If they cared so much about Jews being in "their" land, why the hell are they populating the hell out of ours? Not to mention, those cave-dwellers are new to the area, historically speaking.

I stand by Israel. You HONESTLY think pulling back to 1967 borders will appease the Muslims? How f'n naive can one get?

I don't buy for a second that Israel is not capable of taking care of itself. I certainly have no problem with anyone voluntarily donating to any cause that they feel strongly about..including financing Israel. I just object to being forced to do so...FOR ANYTHING. I think my stance against forced extraction of the fruits of my labor is well documented here.

(01-31-2011 06:18 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Freedom fails when democracy dies. Israel does help the US. The virus that destroyed the iraian centrifuges was israeli. And the deaths of the Iranian scientists was an israeli operation. You willing to throw in the towel on Israel are appeasing the Muslim enemy. No good could come of it. It's shallow to think otherwise. Freedom is not free.

Write a personal check directly to them in thanks.

(01-31-2011 06:39 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 06:18 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Freedom fails when democracy dies. Israel does help the US. The virus that destroyed the iraian centrifuges was israeli. And the deaths of the Iranian scientists was an israeli operation. You willing to throw in the towel on Israel are appeasing the Muslim enemy. No good could come of it. It's shallow to think otherwise. Freedom is not free.

Write a personal check directly to them in thanks.

BAM. Bingo. Let AIPAC send aid from their own wallets.

(01-31-2011 06:39 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 06:18 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Freedom fails when democracy dies. Israel does help the US. The virus that destroyed the iraian centrifuges was israeli. And the deaths of the Iranian scientists was an israeli operation. You willing to throw in the towel on Israel are appeasing the Muslim enemy. No good could come of it. It's shallow to think otherwise. Freedom is not free.

Write a personal check directly to them in thanks.

your money is easier to spend.

(01-31-2011 09:04 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:   your money is easier to spend.

Pelosi? Is that you?

(01-31-2011 09:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 09:04 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:   your money is easier to spend.

Pelosi? Is that you?

That's just mean.

(01-31-2011 12:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-30-2011 10:45 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The world's governments and their populace would be decidedly less friendly to the USA. Mineral rights, corporate agreements, military staging, defense contracts etc; our aid buys is a fair amount of business and security in return.

This is not as simple as taking our ball and going home.

I find it deeply amusing when "TEAM AMERICAAAAAA F*** YEA!" Republicans use that line of thinking.

The same people who are so hawkish that they would call someone a traitor liberal isolationist p*ssy if they don't turn a country into a thermonuclear wasteland because somebody in a turban farted while their butt was pointed west .... are the same people who are scared shitless of what might happen if we stop bribing people.

If you have bribe somebody, by stealing from your fellow countrymen (where do you think the $$$ comes from??), then perhaps not only YOU have a problem, but you shouldn't be associating with those jagoffs anymore anyway.

Raise your hand if you're gullible enough to think that our foreign aid in any way buys us serious allies, serious long term military supporters, or even has a 1 to 1 return on investment. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

More hands will raise every second of every minute of every day through the end of time that says that foreign aid is honey to the vinegar of your isolationism, or to the sting of an American missile. If you want to retreat to your personal Tora Bora, go ahead but global commerce and diplomacy will continue, regardless of Paulite tantrums.

You want isolationism, that's fine. But don't try to make this some issue of how those of us that prefer a strong foreign policy somehow don't prefer money make the statement, instead of troops on the ground.

(01-31-2011 12:48 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 12:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-30-2011 10:45 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The world's governments and their populace would be decidedly less friendly to the USA. Mineral rights, corporate agreements, military staging, defense contracts etc; our aid buys is a fair amount of business and security in return.

This is not as simple as taking our ball and going home.

I find it deeply amusing when "TEAM AMERICAAAAAA F*** YEA!" Republicans use that line of thinking.

The same people who are so hawkish that they would call someone a traitor liberal isolationist p*ssy if they don't turn a country into a thermonuclear wasteland because somebody in a turban farted while their butt was pointed west .... are the same people who are scared shitless of what might happen if we stop bribing people.

If you have bribe somebody, by stealing from your fellow countrymen (where do you think the $$$ comes from??), then perhaps not only YOU have a problem, but you shouldn't be associating with those jagoffs anymore anyway.

Raise your hand if you're gullible enough to think that our foreign aid in any way buys us serious allies, serious long term military supporters, or even has a 1 to 1 return on investment. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

We bought 30 years of peace between the Israelis and Egyptians. Foreign aid to former Soviet Republics in Central Asia has given our oil companies access to compete for their resources. Same goes for several African Nations including Nigeria. I would say that those "bribes" have paid off well.

I have to agree there. So GTS, I'd say yeah, we've had better than 1:1 ROI on some investments.

Do I think they're our best friends? No. But that's largely a straw man. Only a fool or a liar would believe you could buy a friend like that.

the problem is, nothing operates in a vacuum. It seems like a great idea to end all that foreign "aid," (bribery) but if you don't grease the wheels, another country will. Listen, our politicians might be stupid, but they realize that the money we send never reaches the masses that need it. We spread the graft around because we get things in return.

(01-31-2011 09:37 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  More hands will raise every second of every minute of every day through the end of time that says that foreign aid is honey to the vinegar of your isolationism, or to the sting of an American missile. If you want to retreat to your personal Tora Bora, go ahead but global commerce and diplomacy will continue, regardless of Paulite tantrums.

You want isolationism, that's fine. But don't try to make this some issue of how those of us that prefer a strong foreign policy somehow don't prefer money make the statement, instead of troops on the ground.

Isolationism =/= Non-interventionism. Ron Paul has the original US foreign policy ... the policy of Jefferson: Trade and commerce with all, entangling alliances with none. That big mean ole China you hate is doing far better than we are using that exact foreign policy. It's sad when the communists of the east are more capitalist from economics to foreign policy than the west is.

(01-31-2011 09:38 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

Quote:We bought 30 years of peace between the Israelis and Egyptians. Foreign aid to former Soviet Republics in Central Asia has given our oil companies access to compete for their resources. Same goes for several African Nations including Nigeria. I would say that those "bribes" have paid off well.

I have to agree there. So GTS, I'd say yeah, we've had better than 1:1 ROI on some investments.

Do I think they're our best friends? No. But that's largely a straw man. Only a fool or a liar would believe you could buy a friend like that.

How has peace between Israel and Egypt benefited Americans to the tune of many billion dollars annually? At what point do Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy bring that money back you've stolen from the taxpayers?

(01-31-2011 12:48 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 12:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-30-2011 10:45 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The world's governments and their populace would be decidedly less friendly to the USA. Mineral rights, corporate agreements, military staging, defense contracts etc; our aid buys is a fair amount of business and security in return.

This is not as simple as taking our ball and going home.

I find it deeply amusing when "TEAM AMERICAAAAAA F*** YEA!" Republicans use that line of thinking.

The same people who are so hawkish that they would call someone a traitor liberal isolationist p*ssy if they don't turn a country into a thermonuclear wasteland because somebody in a turban farted while their butt was pointed west .... are the same people who are scared shitless of what might happen if we stop bribing people.

If you have bribe somebody, by stealing from your fellow countrymen (where do you think the $$$ comes from??), then perhaps not only YOU have a problem, but you shouldn't be associating with those jagoffs anymore anyway.

Raise your hand if you're gullible enough to think that our foreign aid in any way buys us serious allies, serious long term military supporters, or even has a 1 to 1 return on investment. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

We bought 30 years of peace between the Israelis and Egyptians. Foreign aid to former Soviet Republics in Central Asia has given our oil companies access to compete for their resources. Same goes for several African Nations including Nigeria. I would say that those "bribes" have paid off well.

Why couldn't the oil companies themselves spend the money for access? The way it is now the U.S. government is using taxpayer money to allow the oil companies to make money. And some claim that the price of oil/gas is not being subsidized?

(01-31-2011 09:04 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 06:39 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 06:18 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Freedom fails when democracy dies. Israel does help the US. The virus that destroyed the iraian centrifuges was israeli. And the deaths of the Iranian scientists was an israeli operation. You willing to throw in the towel on Israel are appeasing the Muslim enemy. No good could come of it. It's shallow to think otherwise. Freedom is not free.

Write a personal check directly to them in thanks.

your money is easier to spend.

+1

I fully support humanitarian aide...nothing more...with the caveat that the aid actually goes to those in need...not to feed the troops of rouge regimes.

(01-31-2011 12:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I fully support humanitarian aide...nothing more...with the caveat that the aid actually goes to those in need...not to feed the troops of rouge regimes.

or, to purchase entertainment (little boys) for parties.

(01-31-2011 12:43 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 12:40 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I fully support humanitarian aide...nothing more...with the caveat that the aid actually goes to those in need...not to feed the troops of rouge regimes.

or, to purchase entertainment (little boys) for parties.

Now you go to far!!!

(01-31-2011 11:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 12:48 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 12:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-30-2011 10:45 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The world's governments and their populace would be decidedly less friendly to the USA. Mineral rights, corporate agreements, military staging, defense contracts etc; our aid buys is a fair amount of business and security in return.

This is not as simple as taking our ball and going home.

I find it deeply amusing when "TEAM AMERICAAAAAA F*** YEA!" Republicans use that line of thinking.

The same people who are so hawkish that they would call someone a traitor liberal isolationist p*ssy if they don't turn a country into a thermonuclear wasteland because somebody in a turban farted while their butt was pointed west .... are the same people who are scared shitless of what might happen if we stop bribing people.

If you have bribe somebody, by stealing from your fellow countrymen (where do you think the $$$ comes from??), then perhaps not only YOU have a problem, but you shouldn't be associating with those jagoffs anymore anyway.

Raise your hand if you're gullible enough to think that our foreign aid in any way buys us serious allies, serious long term military supporters, or even has a 1 to 1 return on investment. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

We bought 30 years of peace between the Israelis and Egyptians. Foreign aid to former Soviet Republics in Central Asia has given our oil companies access to compete for their resources. Same goes for several African Nations including Nigeria. I would say that those "bribes" have paid off well.

Why couldn't the oil companies themselves spend the money for access? The way it is now the U.S. government is using taxpayer money to allow the oil companies to make money. And some claim that the price of oil/gas is not being subsidized?

Never said the oil and gas companies arent being subsidized. I would imagine the US government sees the bribes/subsidies as a net positive due to jobs it creates and the overall positive effect on our economy.

As far as the oil companies doing it themselves, Im sure they are. Halliburton has issues in Nigeria right now for that very reason. However, the Chinese and Russians are doing the same thing and if we want access to a despots resources we have to play the game. Is it fair? Of course not. The world isnt fair.

(01-31-2011 11:33 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 09:37 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  More hands will raise every second of every minute of every day through the end of time that says that foreign aid is honey to the vinegar of your isolationism, or to the sting of an American missile. If you want to retreat to your personal Tora Bora, go ahead but global commerce and diplomacy will continue, regardless of Paulite tantrums.

You want isolationism, that's fine. But don't try to make this some issue of how those of us that prefer a strong foreign policy somehow don't prefer money make the statement, instead of troops on the ground.

Isolationism =/= Non-interventionism. Ron Paul has the original US foreign policy ... the policy of Jefferson: Trade and commerce with all, entangling alliances with none. That big mean ole China you hate is doing far better than we are using that exact foreign policy. It's sad when the communists of the east are more capitalist from economics to foreign policy than the west is.

(01-31-2011 09:38 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

Quote:We bought 30 years of peace between the Israelis and Egyptians. Foreign aid to former Soviet Republics in Central Asia has given our oil companies access to compete for their resources. Same goes for several African Nations including Nigeria. I would say that those "bribes" have paid off well.

I have to agree there. So GTS, I'd say yeah, we've had better than 1:1 ROI on some investments.

Do I think they're our best friends? No. But that's largely a straw man. Only a fool or a liar would believe you could buy a friend like that.

How has peace between Israel and Egypt benefited Americans to the tune of many billion dollars annually? At what point do Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy bring that money back you've stolen from the taxpayers?

How much has the Iraq War cost us since 2003? Compare that to another war between the Arab states and Israel would've cost us if we were dragged into it. Syria and Jordan wouldn't start a hot war with Israel if the Egyptians are placated.

(01-31-2011 02:15 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  How much has the Iraq War cost us since 2003? Compare that to another war between the Arab states and Israel would've cost us if we were dragged into it. Syria and Jordan wouldn't start a hot war with Israel if the Egyptians are placated.

WTF?!

Why is the BASE ASSUMPTION that we have to be in the middle of every military pissing match on the planet???