http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43809.html

Quote:Secure the Southern border

By REP. LAMAR SMITH | 10/19/10 4:42 AM EDT

Homeland Security secretary Janet Napolitano told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the southern U.S. border is “as secure as it has ever been.” This surprising statement came only a few weeks after an Arizona rancher was shot and killed on his own property by a suspected illegal immigrant.

Many citizens in Arizona and other border states thought the tragic death of an U.S. citizen on his own property would finally wake up the Obama administration to the growing violence along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Though Napolitano may not want to admit it, the southern U.S. border is far from secure. Illegal immigration, drug smuggling and drug-related violence continue to threaten Americans across the country. Since President Felipe Calderon took office three years ago, there have been more than 28,000 violent deaths on the Mexican side of the U.S.-Mexican border due to drug cartel violence.

Drug cartel violence is a serious problem in Mexico. An Investor’s Business Daily editorial noted last month, “Beheadings, stonings, car bombs and terrorist attacks speak to a lust for power every bit as implacable as that of the Afghanistan’s Taliban or insurgents in Iraq.”

Unfortunately, the Obama administration continues to promote policies that fund the violence along the border.

Marijuana, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, is the “top revenue generator for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, a cash crop that finances corruption and the carnage of violence year after year.”

But rather than enforce federal drug laws that prohibit marijuana use, the Obama administration issued a directive to prosecutors not to investigate medical marijuana dispensaries in the 14 states that allow them. These dispensaries are often fronts for illegal marijuana distribution.

If the Obama administration really wants to address drug-related violence along the U.S.-Mexico border, it needs to cut off the cash crop for Mexican drug cartels. That means enforcing all federal drug laws—including those that outlaw marijuana.

So far in 2010, 447,731 immigrants have been apprehended trying to cross the Southwest border illegally. Of those, 50,912 are from countries other than Mexico -- including terrorist-sponsoring countries like Syria, Pakistan and Yemen.

We already know terrorists exploit weaknesses in the U.S. immigration system to come here. Several of the 9-11 hijackers had overstayed their visas and should have been deported. It is no surprise that terrorists are trying to exploit weak border security on the U.S.-Mexico border to enter the United States undetected.

In addition to national security concerns, illegal immigration along the U.S.-Mexico border hurts U.S. citizen and legal immigrant workers. Last year, 556,041 individuals were apprehended while trying to enter the U.S.

According to T.J. Bonner, the head of the U.S. Border Patrol Council, for each illegal immigrant apprehended, two illegal immigrants enter successfully. That means an estimated one million people succeed in crossing into the United States illegally each year. That’s roughly the population of cities like Dallas; San Jose, Calif., or Detroit.

While millions of Americans are struggling to find work, there are an estimated seven million illegal immigrants in the U.S. workforce. Legal American workers should not have to compete with illegal immigrants for scarce jobs.

Worksite enforcement could help make those much-needed jobs available for U.S. citizen and legal immigrant workers. But under President Barack Obama, worksite enforcement administrative arrests are down 77 percent.
Real border security means stopping the flow of illegal drugs into the United States and putting an end to illegal immigration. The Obama administration can do much more to protect American lives and jobs.

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee.

Legalize weed.

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Yep, and tax it.

I would rather see as much revenue as possible raised through taxes/fees where you have a choice to pay it or not engage in the related product/service.

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

I would agree. But that's only part of the problem.

(10-21-2010 11:55 AM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

I would agree. But that's only part of the problem.

Quote:Marijuana, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, is the “top revenue generator for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, a cash crop that finances corruption and the carnage of violence year after year.”

Seems it's a pretty big part of the problem.

(10-21-2010 12:04 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 11:55 AM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

I would agree. But that's only part of the problem.

Quote:Marijuana, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, is the “top revenue generator for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, a cash crop that finances corruption and the carnage of violence year after year.”

Seems it's a pretty big part of the problem.

I don't disagree that it's a big part, but you must also consider the huge number of illegals who jump the border looking for work. Large groups of illegals walking the desert with "guides" with no drugs, but just looking for under the table work, access to American schools and hospitals, and cash to send back home.

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Then it will get regulated and taxed meaning it will be more expensive and maybe not as good as the black market stuff. There will probably always be a market for Mexican weed. And if demand drops a little then the smugglers will concentrate on other drugs like meth and coke.

(10-21-2010 12:07 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 12:04 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 11:55 AM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

I would agree. But that's only part of the problem.

Quote:Marijuana, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, is the “top revenue generator for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, a cash crop that finances corruption and the carnage of violence year after year.”

Seems it's a pretty big part of the problem.

I don't disagree that it's a big part, but you must also consider the huge number of illegals who jump the border looking for work. Large groups of illegals walking the desert with "guides" with no drugs, but just looking for under the table work, access to American schools and hospitals, and cash to send back home.

How much corruption could be cleaned up in Mexico if their #1 financing operation is all the sudden made legal in the United States? How many jobs and companies refused to open up shop in those border towns due to the violence? It's a catch 22. The people get into drugs because there are no jobs, but there are no jobs because the drugs have made it a war zone.

(10-21-2010 12:11 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 12:07 PM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 12:04 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 11:55 AM)moe24 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

I would agree. But that's only part of the problem.

Quote:Marijuana, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration, is the “top revenue generator for Mexican drug trafficking organizations, a cash crop that finances corruption and the carnage of violence year after year.”

Seems it's a pretty big part of the problem.

I don't disagree that it's a big part, but you must also consider the huge number of illegals who jump the border looking for work. Large groups of illegals walking the desert with "guides" with no drugs, but just looking for under the table work, access to American schools and hospitals, and cash to send back home.

How much corruption could be cleaned up in Mexico if their #1 financing operation is all the sudden made legal in the United States? How many jobs and companies refused to open up shop in those border towns due to the violence? It's a catch 22. The people get into drugs because there are no jobs, but there are no jobs because the drugs have made it a war zone.

Legalizing pot won't change that alone. As smn correctly pointed out they'll just adjust their focus to other drugs. It's not like they aren't moving those drugs already.

(10-21-2010 12:10 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Then it will get regulated and taxed meaning it will be more expensive and maybe not as good as the black market stuff. There will probably always be a market for Mexican weed. And if demand drops a little then the smugglers will concentrate on other drugs like meth and coke.

You'd get a huge drop in the real price when it became legal. Then you could tax back a part of the drop and get more funding to go after meth and coke. And you'd break the distribution channel where the same guy who sells you grass also does coke and meth, so he tries to move you along.

As for regulated and taxed making it more expensive and not as good as black market, that's not exactly been our experience with alcohol.

If those drugs were in such high demand, they'd be their number one financing operation. Weed is still very popular among all classes and essentially considered the most accepted drug out there.

(10-21-2010 11:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Yep, and tax it.

I would rather see as much revenue as possible raised through taxes/fees where you have a choice to pay it or not engage in the related product/service.

if you legalize weed (which I am neither for nor against) the amount of tax revenue you'll get is next to nothing. Weed, as a product, derives all of it's value from it's illegality.

When you can grow enough weed to keep yourself high with the amount of effort it takes to grow a potted tomato plant why in the world do you think the value would stay up?

It will be like squash in Autumn..

It's not hard to make your own beer either, yet that isn't killing the industry. You're really overestimating the average American drug user.

Even so, let's say for a second that you're correct (feel free to show many evidence you are) that pot users decided they weren't going to be lazy anymore. And they actually made all of their own product. You're still not wasting your time with petty criminals and ridiculous drug wars we can't win.

(10-21-2010 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  When you can grow enough weed to keep yourself high with the amount of effort it takes to grow a potted tomato plant why in the world do you think the value would stay up?

It will be like squash in Autumn..

This to me is really the most interesting aspect of pot legalization.

• How many of your neighbors suddenly grow weed in their backyard?
• Does a Trader Joe's suddenly sell Organic, Shade Grown Fair Trade Marijuana in giant racks, like they do their hipster coffee? Will there be a "Self Roll" option ala "Grind Your Own Coffee Beans?" Will they offer Holiday flavored weed like mint and pumpkin?
• Do you bring your extra weed into the office and put it in the break room for someone to take home, like you would a couple spare zucchinis or an extra bag of heirloom tommy-toes?
• Does Home Depot sell early season pot plants along the daisies for spring planting?
  

(10-21-2010 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 11:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Yep, and tax it.

I would rather see as much revenue as possible raised through taxes/fees where you have a choice to pay it or not engage in the related product/service.

if you legalize weed (which I am neither for nor against) the amount of tax revenue you'll get is next to nothing. Weed, as a product, derives all of it's value from it's illegality.

When you can grow enough weed to keep yourself high with the amount of effort it takes to grow a potted tomato plant why in the world do you think the value would stay up?

It will be like squash in Autumn..

So, the only reason you see to legalize something is for the tax benefit, I.e. alms to the Crown? The big issue here, at least to me, is removing the incentive for a lot of violence on our borders.

(10-21-2010 01:20 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  It's not hard to make your own beer either, yet that isn't killing the industry. You're really overestimating the average American drug user.

Even so, let's say for a second that you're correct (feel free to show many evidence you are) that pot users decided they weren't going to be lazy anymore. And they actually made all of their own product. You're still not wasting your time with petty criminals and ridiculous drug wars we can't win.

umm Ive known Brewers and I've known stoners....

If you stop forcing stoners to use grow lights and keep their plant's out of sight it grows with all the ease of a squash plant and yeids more than enough for one person.

Brewing requires precision, equipment (beyond a pot, soil, and water), and skill...

To say that these two skill sets are in the same league is either delusional or deceptive.

--

All that being said, I did initally state that I am opinion less on the whole issue of CA legalizing Pot, just don't expect a boom to your tax base.

--

As to petty criminals and drug wars? yea I am sure Crack, Cocaine, and drug violance would disappear were it not for Marijuana.

(10-21-2010 01:38 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  As to petty criminals and drug wars? yea I am sure Crack, Cocaine, and drug violance would disappear were it not for Marijuana.

Would it decrease it?

(10-21-2010 01:28 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 11:34 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 10:44 AM)Rebel Wrote:  Legalize weed.

Yep, and tax it.

I would rather see as much revenue as possible raised through taxes/fees where you have a choice to pay it or not engage in the related product/service.

if you legalize weed (which I am neither for nor against) the amount of tax revenue you'll get is next to nothing. Weed, as a product, derives all of it's value from it's illegality.

When you can grow enough weed to keep yourself high with the amount of effort it takes to grow a potted tomato plant why in the world do you think the value would stay up?

It will be like squash in Autumn..

So, the only reason you see to legalize something is for the tax benefit, I.e. alms to the Crown? The big issue here, at least to me, is removing the incentive for a lot of violence on our borders.

Where did you get that from?

YOu said 'tax it', I said if you legalized it then the value and hence the taxes would be minuscule.

Did I say it should or should not be legalized for any reason? no because I have little opinion on the matter..

Quote:if you legalize weed (which I am neither for nor against)

In truth legalizing Marijuana would not increased the tax base nor would it stop Mexico from having border violence, the violence would just be focused around another drug.

(10-21-2010 01:41 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  In truth legalizing Marijuana would not increased the tax base nor would it stop Mexico from having border violence, the violence would just be focused around another drug.

Or human trafficking.

(10-21-2010 01:51 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-21-2010 01:41 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  In truth legalizing Marijuana would not increased the tax base nor would it stop Mexico from having border violence, the violence would just be focused around another drug.

Or human trafficking.

That's already happening.