There has been much discussion lately from conservatives and Libertarian leaning folks about the need to "limit" the size of government or bring it back to its original constitutional form.

If you have read any of my ramblings you know that I advocate the eventual end to government and an evolution into a voluntary society based on the principle of non aggression...controlled by the marketplace, personal choice and a system of private arbitration. Whew...What a mouth full.

Something occurred to me while at work this afternoon. Being as limiting government would increase the liberties of the people...I should be in involved in helping to make that happen. Also I see it as a step toward the evolution that I advocate. By drastically downsizing the governmental structure it's glaring ineffectiveness would be clearer to people.

I now ask the everyone a question. Just how do we expect to accomplish this limitation of the governmental structure?

I would love to hear some ideas.

Ill start.

Give bureaucrats incentives to reduce budgets with monetary yearly bonuses.

(05-25-2010 04:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I advocate the eventual end to government and an evolution into a voluntary society based on the principle of non aggression...controlled by the marketplace, personal choice and a system of private arbitration.

Yeah, and I'd like to be taller. It ain't happening anytime soon. Unless you've figured out a method of reshaping basic human nature .........

Your utopia is just as much a fantasy as the far lefties version. No such thing seems possible, except in a dreamworld.

(05-25-2010 04:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  There has been much discussion lately from conservatives and Libertarian leaning folks about the need to "limit" the size of government or bring it back to its original constitutional form.

If you have read any of my ramblings you know that I advocate the eventual end to government and an evolution into a voluntary society based on the principle of non aggression...controlled by the marketplace, personal choice and a system of private arbitration. Whew...What a mouth full.

Something occurred to me while at work this afternoon. Being as limiting government would increase the liberties of the people...I should be in involved in helping to make that happen. Also I see it as a step toward the evolution that I advocate. By drastically downsizing the governmental structure it's glaring ineffectiveness would be clearer to people.

I now ask the everyone a question. Just how do we expect to accomplish this limitation of the governmental structure?

I would love to hear some ideas.

Fo Has Epiphanic Vision

What do you think I've been railing you about for the last year? Geezzee

If it has been left up to the states in our constitution, it doesn't need to have a federal department. Good examples would be: Education, Energy, Agriculture, Health and Human Services, Labor, and Transportation. None of those are charged to our federal government and would save a lot of revenue. These services would then be picked up by states and private companies where they can be more efficiently run.

(05-25-2010 05:05 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  If it has been left up to the states in our constitution, it doesn't need to have a federal department. Good examples would be: Education, Energy, Agriculture, Health and Human Services, Labor, and Transportation. None of those are charged to our federal government and would save a lot of revenue. These services would then be picked up by states and private companies where they can be more efficiently run.

Totally agree with this.

(05-25-2010 04:49 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 04:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  There has been much discussion lately from conservatives and Libertarian leaning folks about the need to "limit" the size of government or bring it back to its original constitutional form.

If you have read any of my ramblings you know that I advocate the eventual end to government and an evolution into a voluntary society based on the principle of non aggression...controlled by the marketplace, personal choice and a system of private arbitration. Whew...What a mouth full.

Something occurred to me while at work this afternoon. Being as limiting government would increase the liberties of the people...I should be in involved in helping to make that happen. Also I see it as a step toward the evolution that I advocate. By drastically downsizing the governmental structure it's glaring ineffectiveness would be clearer to people.

I now ask the everyone a question. Just how do we expect to accomplish this limitation of the governmental structure?

I would love to hear some ideas.

Fo Has Epiphanic Vision

What do you think I've been railing you about for the last year? Geezzee

Oh..you have certainly railed...but...You never made this connection.

(05-25-2010 04:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Give bureaucrats incentives to reduce budgets with monetary yearly bonuses.

You mean like a board of directors does with a CEO? Or a CEO does with a department head?

Don't tell me you think that private sector practices could help out the govt.

But, for real. Look at a successful small/medium sized business in an unregulated industry. Model the govt. operations after their ideas.

-Don't spend more money than you have.
-Don't spend more money than you need to.
-Don't hire 75 people when 15 people can get the job done.
-Don't have redundant departments.

Just a few.

(05-25-2010 04:48 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 04:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I advocate the eventual end to government and an evolution into a voluntary society based on the principle of non aggression...controlled by the marketplace, personal choice and a system of private arbitration.

Yeah, and I'd like to be taller. It ain't happening anytime soon. Unless you've figured out a method of reshaping basic human nature .........

Your utopia is just as much a fantasy as the far lefties version. No such thing seems possible, except in a dreamworld.

I didn't ask for a critique...I asked for suggestions.

BTW...I don't expect it to happen any time soon. I believe it will be a evolutionary process over generations. I think though that if limited government can be attained(and I really doubt it)...it will speed up that evolution. What is so crazy about that?

(05-25-2010 05:40 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 04:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Give bureaucrats incentives to reduce budgets with monetary yearly bonuses.

You mean like a board of directors does with a CEO? Or a CEO does with a department head?

Don't tell me you think that private sector practices could help out the govt.

But, for real. Look at a successful small/medium sized business in an unregulated industry. Model the govt. operations after their ideas.

-Don't spend more money than you have.
-Don't spend more money than you need to.
-Don't hire 75 people when 15 people can get the job done.
-Don't have redundant departments.

Just a few.

I guess my point is that bureaucrats have NO incentive to decrease the size of their bureaucracy. It is exactly the opposite. That is why they rush every year to make sure that they spend every penny in their budgets. Give them bonuses equal to the same percentage decrease in their budgets each year and you would see an immediate shrink in the size of bureaucracies.

I agree with you ideas also..

(05-25-2010 05:05 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  If it has been left up to the states in our constitution, it doesn't need to have a federal department. Good examples would be: Education, Energy, Agriculture, Health and Human Services, Labor, and Transportation. None of those are charged to our federal government and would save a lot of revenue. These services would then be picked up by states and private companies where they can be more efficiently run.

+1...You mean that the marketplace could be capable of taking over some of the governmental bureaucracies?...and competition could be used to reduce costs?

Ban unionized government employees. Unions are famous for reducing efficiency and productivity while raising costs.

(05-25-2010 05:54 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-25-2010 05:05 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  If it has been left up to the states in our constitution, it doesn't need to have a federal department. Good examples would be: Education, Energy, Agriculture, Health and Human Services, Labor, and Transportation. None of those are charged to our federal government and would save a lot of revenue. These services would then be picked up by states and private companies where they can be more efficiently run.

+1...You mean that the marketplace could be capable of taking over some of the governmental bureaucracies?...and competition could be used to reduce costs?

That's what I advocate.

Also, how about we have every separate part of the government become just that, a separate part of the government. Congress should act separately from the executive branch and neither should have a part in judicial. There should be no need for party lines if all Representatives acted in the interests of their constituents instead of how their party runs. Senators should do the same but in the interest of their states.

(05-25-2010 05:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Ban unionized government employees. Unions are famous for reducing efficiency and productivity while raising costs.

I think we would be better served to not require membership in a union to work a federal job.

Your suggestion would be rule number one on my list.
a variety of ways to get there that I won't go into.

make elections completely publicly funded through a government "fund". People could give as they saw fit to this fund tax deductible, plus some tax revenue, but with no direction as to party. The amount of money in the fund and the level of election would dictate the amount that could be spent.... 70% of the budget to the candidates, 30% to administration (or whatever). No additional funds... limited man-hours, but at a high level... Prove your fiscal worth by running an effective campaign on a budget. End lobbying by requiring presentations to groups during session as opposed to on junkets.

Get rid of public schools.

Parents actively seek out schools that suit their kids.

Teachers are held more accountable to stakeholders.

Kids no longer learn to depend on a governmental system to take care of them.

(05-25-2010 06:16 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Get rid of public schools.

Parents actively seek out schools that suit their kids.

Teachers are held more accountable to stakeholders.

Kids no longer learn to depend on a governmental system to take care of them.

I don't think that we can eliminate public schools altogether. Maybe turning public schools into charter schools would work. Plus constitutionally, that wouldn't be for the feds to decide.

(05-25-2010 06:16 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Get rid of public schools.

Parents actively seek out schools that suit their kids.

Teachers are held more accountable to stakeholders.

Kids no longer learn to depend on a governmental system to take care of them.

End public schools?..The sooner the better IMO....I'd like to see "private" education be allowed in homes. If a qualified teacher wants to stay home an teach 10 kids in their home as a business...why not? This is the type of competition that would improve education by leaps and bounds IMO.
It would spur neighborhood schooling and encourage parental participation in the process....I'd call it homeschooling on steroids!!

(05-25-2010 05:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Ban unionized government employees. Unions are famous for reducing efficiency and productivity while raising costs.

No problem with this.

How about also make it much easier to discharge government employees that are not performing. For a government employee to loose a job they almost have to be caught red handed stealing or screwing the boss. It is very hard to fire a bureaucrat for poor performance.

(05-25-2010 06:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  For a government employee to loose a job they almost have to be caught red handed stealing or screwing the boss. It is very hard to fire a bureaucrat for poor performance.

Sorry FS, those acts probably aren't egregious enough to get a unionized government employee fired.