That's the catch phrase being used by Dems especially Obama with regard to closing Gitmo. Yet a siege mentality is exactly the approach being pushed for Cap and Trade to remedy the terrible crisis known as Global Warming.

(01-08-2010 06:55 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  That's the catch phrase being used by Dems especially Obama with regard to closing Gitmo. Yet a siege mentality is exactly the approach being pushed for Cap and Trade to remedy the terrible crisis known as Global Warming.

Btw, as for your signiture, you are already paying for the uninsured's healthcare bills so if your rates come down more than taxes go up, you would still think that it is a horrible idea(not saying this plan is going to do that, probably won't because the Blue Cross democrats were making sure that wouldn't happen.

(01-08-2010 02:16 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-08-2010 06:55 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  That's the catch phrase being used by Dems especially Obama with regard to closing Gitmo. Yet a siege mentality is exactly the approach being pushed for Cap and Trade to remedy the terrible crisis known as Global Warming.

Btw, as for your signiture, you are already paying for the uninsured's healthcare bills so if your rates come down more than taxes go up, you would still think that it is a horrible idea(not saying this plan is going to do that, probably won't because the Blue Cross democrats were making sure that wouldn't happen.

You don't think for a minute that insurance rates and taxes will do anything but go up, do ya?

(01-09-2010 09:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-08-2010 02:16 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(01-08-2010 06:55 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  That's the catch phrase being used by Dems especially Obama with regard to closing Gitmo. Yet a siege mentality is exactly the approach being pushed for Cap and Trade to remedy the terrible crisis known as Global Warming.

Btw, as for your signiture, you are already paying for the uninsured's healthcare bills so if your rates come down more than taxes go up, you would still think that it is a horrible idea(not saying this plan is going to do that, probably won't because the Blue Cross democrats were making sure that wouldn't happen.

You don't think for a minute that insurance rates and taxes will do anything but go up, do ya?

Insurance rates will probably go up because the last version of "reform" doesn't really do anything to stop it. Yes, I do think some taxes would be increased. I think that if the right bill was signed, insurance costs would drop more than taxes increase. Unfortunately, the Republicans(incl. Lieberman) and the insurance lobby did not allow that to become reality. Instead, it was "death panels" and millions of dollars to politicians and for ads distorting the plan.

Is the FEDERAL government constitutionally allowed to force me to buy something?

(01-10-2010 08:15 PM)niucob86 Wrote:  Is the FEDERAL government constitutionally allowed to force me to buy something?

Nobody believes they can.... except them. And being as how they use the Constitution for toilet paper....

(01-10-2010 08:15 PM)niucob86 Wrote:  Is the FEDERAL government constitutionally allowed to force me to buy something?

I want to see what they're going to do to gang bangers and the homeless people who don't buy insurance - will the IRS or any other agency really come after them? Anyway, this seems like a good thing to hit illegals with, "Hey Pablo, got insurance?" "Nope" "Let's go, we're deporting your ass for violating our insurance laws"

Basically you have three competing goals:

Universality.
Quality.
Cost.

Historically, we emphasized quality and cost, and punted universality. The WHO study the supposedly said we had the "37th best" health care? What it actually said was that we lacked universality and spent too much, and that study was weighted heavily toward universality more than quality.

We have tried to back into universal care by making the ER available to everyone. Unfortunately, the ER is the "most expensive" place to get health care. Except it isn't really. It should be the cheapest--you see a resident or intern or nurse practitioner instead of a real doc, there is no stand-alone facility, there is little or no dedicated equipment, you use hospital equipment that is already there and would be idle otherwise, there is almost full utilization. So why is it "most expensive"? Because hospitals can get more money from insurers by calling things "emergencies," and they can get more money from Medicare/Medicaid by giving away more free services, and they can take the money they eat on those "free" services and reallocate them to you. So they jury-rig the allocation process to overload the ER with allocated costs--the guy mowing the lawn when you drive up, the furniture in the lobby, etc.

So what do we do going forward?
If we go for universality and quality, costs shoot through the roof.
If we go for quality and cost, universality shoots through the floor.
We are committing to cost and universality. Guess what's going to suffer.