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New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
01-wingedeagle The Left amazes me. According to Krugman, all the anti-health care protesters are just a bunch of racist birthers. What an idiot.

There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.

That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

So this is something new and ugly. What’s behind it?

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, has compared the scenes at health care town halls to the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000 — the demonstration that disrupted the vote count in Miami and arguably helped send George W. Bush to the White House. Portrayed at the time as local protesters, many of the rioters were actually G.O.P. staffers flown in from Washington.

But Mr. Gibbs is probably only half right. Yes, well-heeled interest groups are helping to organize the town hall mobs. Key organizers include two Astroturf (fake grass-roots) organizations: FreedomWorks, run by the former House majority leader Dick Armey, and a new organization called Conservatives for Patients’ Rights.

The latter group, by the way, is run by Rick Scott, the former head of Columbia/HCA, a for-profit hospital chain. Mr. Scott was forced out of that job amid a fraud investigation; the company eventually pleaded guilty to charges of overbilling state and federal health plans, paying $1.7 billion — yes, that’s “billion” — in fines. You can’t make this stuff up.

But while the organizers are as crass as they come, I haven’t seen any evidence that the people disrupting those town halls are Florida-style rent-a-mobs. For the most part, the protesters appear to be genuinely angry. The question is, what are they angry about?

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

Now, people who don’t know that Medicare is a government program probably aren’t reacting to what President Obama is actually proposing. They may believe some of the disinformation opponents of health care reform are spreading, like the claim that the Obama plan will lead to euthanasia for the elderly. (That particular claim is coming straight from House Republican leaders.) But they’re probably reacting less to what Mr. Obama is doing, or even to what they’ve heard about what he’s doing, than to who he is.

That is, the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.


And cynical political operators are exploiting that anxiety to further the economic interests of their backers.

Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Many people hoped that last year’s election would mark the end of the “angry white voter” era in America. Indeed, voters who can be swayed by appeals to cultural and racial fear are a declining share of the electorate.

But right now Mr. Obama’s backers seem to lack all conviction, perhaps because the prosaic reality of his administration isn’t living up to their dreams of transformation. Meanwhile, the angry right is filled with a passionate intensity.

And if Mr. Obama can’t recapture some of the passion of 2008, can’t inspire his supporters to stand up and be heard, health care reform may well fail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/opinio....html?_r=1
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2009 05:54 AM by WoodlandsOwl.)
08-07-2009 05:25 AM
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Paul M Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
This ********** writes from alternate reality.
08-07-2009 08:10 AM
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Smaug Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?
08-07-2009 09:39 AM
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Tripster Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
.

I believe he was a Great & Grand Al Qaeda Leader, who was Executed by Rocket courtesy of the United States & was reincarnated to be a Living Ass-Hole.

But it does appear he uses some really good stuff much like the Magic Dust FeverTick uses and his Rose Colored Glasses are so Thick, they have to be made of this Special Magic Crystal too.

I guess life IS good down the Rabbit Hole or in his case, IN the Rabbit's Hole .... muwahahhahahahhahahahahaaaaaa

.
08-07-2009 10:17 AM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 09:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?

I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized. However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?
08-07-2009 10:23 AM
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NIU05 Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
Krugmans thesis..."amgry white men'......"racist birthers"..... This poses as insight in New York and on the left and not the BS racist crap that it is. It is amazing the number of people who eat up this steaming pile.
08-07-2009 10:24 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 09:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?

I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized. However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?

And exactly how much of that have you seen?
08-07-2009 10:57 AM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 10:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 09:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?

I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized. However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?

And exactly how much of that have you seen?



That kind of behavior is an embarrassment, and yet these are the folks the GOP are latching on to.
08-07-2009 11:02 AM
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Tripster Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized.

However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?

NO, it is NOT .....

When you are a Conservative and have been taught to act like a Conservative, you try not to hurt the other persons feelings no matter what they say.

Well when you have been held down and Double-Standarded for Decades in almost Defining Voiceless Silence, there is a Time When the Kettle is gonna blow, AND IT HAS.

If these were Good Liberal Citizens just causing Rukus in a Conservative Town Hall, this would a GOOD GOOD GOOD THING and should be supported by all Nations all over Earth.

But since it is REAL PEOPLE Standing up to the King and who have NEVER STOOD UP Like this before, it all of a Sudden Becomes a Horrid and Retched scene of Mindless and Paid Actors who only disrupt for a Dollar.

You guys best open your eyes and see this for what it is .... this is the Real Deal with REAL DEAL PEOPLE who are PISSED OFF BIG TIME.

The more you make fun and Ridicule them, the stronger they become.

I am telling you guys a Truth ... if the Child King does not back off, he is going to have Civil Unrest thru out this Nation as has never been seen the likes of before.

A Sleeping Giant HAS BEEN PISSED OFF and they ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE !!!!!!

Laugh at my post, mock, make fun, belittle, but this is real and it is about to go Nuclearly Uber-Nasty people.

Hang out in your goofy Cocoons and act as if this is Staged and Paid Actors and it will all end when they get tired ..... this is NOT Florida in 2000 .... these are Honest, Hard Working, Angry Americans who WANT ANSWERS and ARE NOT GETTING ANY.

It is at the Boiling Over Point and the Tiny Dictator better either Loose the Troops with orders to Fire at Will or he Best Listen ..... this is NOT going away.

.
08-07-2009 11:17 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:02 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  That kind of behavior is an embarrassment, and yet these are the folks the GOP are latching on to.

I'll make you, Obama, Pelosi, Reid and everyone else a deal:

If you don't like people like this, then leave them alone. Don't take their taxes, don't take their time, don't take their children, and don't take any of their resources.

Leave them out of your plans for nationalized health care, let them find their own banks and buy their own cars.

Since they embarass you so much, then do the right thing and distance yourself from them. Laugh at them from your university classrooms, mock them on CNN, have your fill. BUT, hands off their money, time and persons.

Fair enough?
08-07-2009 11:26 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 05:25 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:  01-wingedeagle The Left amazes me. According to Krugman, all the anti-health care protesters are just a bunch of racist birthers. What an idiot.

There’s a famous Norman Rockwell painting titled “Freedom of Speech,” depicting an idealized American town meeting. The painting, part of a series illustrating F.D.R.’s “Four Freedoms,” shows an ordinary citizen expressing an unpopular opinion. His neighbors obviously don’t like what he’s saying, but they’re letting him speak his mind.

That’s a far cry from what has been happening at recent town halls, where angry protesters — some of them, with no apparent sense of irony, shouting “This is America!” — have been drowning out, and in some cases threatening, members of Congress trying to talk about health reform.

Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

So this is something new and ugly. What’s behind it?

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, has compared the scenes at health care town halls to the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000 — the demonstration that disrupted the vote count in Miami and arguably helped send George W. Bush to the White House. Portrayed at the time as local protesters, many of the rioters were actually G.O.P. staffers flown in from Washington.

But Mr. Gibbs is probably only half right. Yes, well-heeled interest groups are helping to organize the town hall mobs. Key organizers include two Astroturf (fake grass-roots) organizations: FreedomWorks, run by the former House majority leader Dick Armey, and a new organization called Conservatives for Patients’ Rights.

The latter group, by the way, is run by Rick Scott, the former head of Columbia/HCA, a for-profit hospital chain. Mr. Scott was forced out of that job amid a fraud investigation; the company eventually pleaded guilty to charges of overbilling state and federal health plans, paying $1.7 billion — yes, that’s “billion” — in fines. You can’t make this stuff up.

But while the organizers are as crass as they come, I haven’t seen any evidence that the people disrupting those town halls are Florida-style rent-a-mobs. For the most part, the protesters appear to be genuinely angry. The question is, what are they angry about?

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

Now, people who don’t know that Medicare is a government program probably aren’t reacting to what President Obama is actually proposing. They may believe some of the disinformation opponents of health care reform are spreading, like the claim that the Obama plan will lead to euthanasia for the elderly. (That particular claim is coming straight from House Republican leaders.) But they’re probably reacting less to what Mr. Obama is doing, or even to what they’ve heard about what he’s doing, than to who he is.

That is, the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.


And cynical political operators are exploiting that anxiety to further the economic interests of their backers.

Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Many people hoped that last year’s election would mark the end of the “angry white voter” era in America. Indeed, voters who can be swayed by appeals to cultural and racial fear are a declining share of the electorate.

But right now Mr. Obama’s backers seem to lack all conviction, perhaps because the prosaic reality of his administration isn’t living up to their dreams of transformation. Meanwhile, the angry right is filled with a passionate intensity.

And if Mr. Obama can’t recapture some of the passion of 2008, can’t inspire his supporters to stand up and be heard, health care reform may well fail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/opinio....html?_r=1
Well, for one thing he said "probably". Even if he didn't, he is absolutely correct. THose big mouths at the the town halls ARE mostly those that are "birthers". How can you even deny that? If you don't think they are you aren't living in the real world.
08-07-2009 11:29 AM
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 08:10 AM)Paul M Wrote:  This ********** writes from alternate reality.
Yeah, right. It is HE who is living in an alternate reality and not you. 03-lmfao
08-07-2009 11:31 AM
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niuhuskie84 Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:17 AM)Tripster Wrote:  Well when you have been held down and Double-Standarded for Decades in almost Defining Voiceless Silence, there is a Time When the Kettle is gonna blow, AND IT HAS.

LOL. I guess being "held down" only counts outside the years of 1861-1865, 1869-1877, 1877-1881, 1881-1885, 1889-1893, 1897-1901, 1901-1909, 1909-1913, 1921-1923, 1923-1929, 1929-1933, 1953-1961, 1969-1974, 1974-1977, 1981-1989, 1989-1993, and 2001-2009
08-07-2009 11:34 AM
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wvucrazed Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:29 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Well, for one thing he said "probably". Even if he didn't, he is absolutely correct. THose big mouths at the the town halls ARE mostly those that are "birthers". How can you even deny that? If you don't think they are you aren't living in the real world.


I don't understand why they would WANT to deny it. Most of them seem fully supportive of the "birther" theory. Wouldn't they say "Damn right these people are birthers!!!!"

Or, are they now starting to realize what an embarrasment the birthers actually are to the party, and are now trying to distance themselves from them?

But I think i see the difficulty... It's established that much of the foundation of the "birther" movement lies in a very racist element of society, so you can't very well say "yeah, we're for the birthers!!! But there is NO racial element to this at all!!!" with a straight face.

Well, they CAN say that, I suppose, and I'm sure they will, but it's total BS.

Not that spouting BS troubles these folks in the slightest.
08-07-2009 11:38 AM
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:02 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 10:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 09:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?

I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized. However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?
And exactly how much of that have you seen?
That kind of behavior is an embarrassment, and yet these are the folks the GOP are latching on to.

That's how many I've seen too--one. And I've seen one effigy. And zero swastikas.

And that does not support your conclusion that anyone is latching onto this.

I will say this about that clip. I thought the congressman did a much better job of listening and letting the lady have her say than most of his peers have done, and that kept the situation far more civil. The other clips I've seen, if the speakers had handled things this way, I believe they would have ended much more quietly. Most of these people just want to be heard, and if you let them speak their piece they'll settle down. I think the other congressmen I've seen, and the AARP lady, were being confrontational, trying to talk over their audience and ram home their points. Were they intentionally goading things to get out of hand, in order that the DNC can characterize the protesters as crackpots? I don't know--and neither does anyone else on here.
08-07-2009 11:38 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 10:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 09:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I wonder if it has occurred to this pinhead that maybe, just maybe, mind you, some folks oppose the president's plan because it's a friggin' bad idea?

I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized. However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?

And exactly how much of that have you seen?
How much of what? How many town hall meetings are being interupted by paranoid wackos? Lots. Just watch MSNBC. They show new "protests" everyday. The commentary may be biased(in your opinion) but the videos don't lie.
08-07-2009 11:39 AM
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And that does not support your conclusion that anyone is latching onto this.

People here are latching onto it, so I assume others are as well.

When I posted the links to the disruptions and chaos in Tampa last night, the general consensus from the right-wing posters here was "It's about time!!!"

They embrace this kinda stuff.

What they are not realizing is that the mushy middle - where most people are - are going to look at this stuff with revulsion and it's going to ultimately damage their arguments.
08-07-2009 11:42 AM
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
The lefties are pissed off because they are now seeing what happens when leftist tactics are used against one of their own cherished goals. They are getting desperate as they watch polling numbers and know that they are losing the argument. So, to try to misdirect, they go to the Chicago playbook. They are using tactics that might work if people were still asleep but this time, people are no longer buying it. Folks are getting tired of being lied to.

What are these winning tactics?

1) Demonize: first - doctors. Make them evil and greedy, doing unnecessary operations just for the money (no mention of practicing defensive medicine in our litigious society....)

2) Demonize the evil insurance companies. If that doesn't work, try to buy them off. Those greedy corporation have to operate profitably - ewwwww.

3) Tell the public that disagrees that they are too stupid to know what is good for them. Never mind that members of Congress would NEVER sign up for this kind of helth plan for themselves or their own families. That should be the #1 question to members of Congress - are YOU going to sign up for this plan? Why not?

4) Set up a mechanism encouraging people to spy on and turn in to the administration friends and family or anybody who is spreading info about Obamacare that sounds "fishy." (Wonder where those references to Stalin and Hitler came from......hmmmmmm?)

5) Claim that honest, angry folks worried about the implications of this drastic change in the system are actually bought or paid for. This, coming from the expert practicioners or "astroturfing."

I really hope that these idiots keep this up. Nothing could serve better to wake this country up and run these far leftists out of Washington than telling us that we are stupid, greedy and don't deserve to have the freedom to choose our own healthcare options. The revolution is just starting.
08-07-2009 11:43 AM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:17 AM)Tripster Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 10:23 AM)niuhuskie84 Wrote:  I have no problem with that; debate is good. Thats why these town hall meetings were organized.

However, when you have paranoid wackos interrupting the middle of the meeting to shout about Obama being an illegal alien, then its pretty hard to get down to brass tacks, isnt it?

NO, it is NOT .....

When you are a Conservative and have been taught to act like a Conservative, you try not to hurt the other persons feelings no matter what they say.

Well when you have been held down and Double-Standarded for Decades in almost Defining Voiceless Silence, there is a Time When the Kettle is gonna blow, AND IT HAS.

If these were Good Liberal Citizens just causing Rukus in a Conservative Town Hall, this would a GOOD GOOD GOOD THING and should be supported by all Nations all over Earth.

But since it is REAL PEOPLE Standing up to the King and who have NEVER STOOD UP Like this before, it all of a Sudden Becomes a Horrid and Retched scene of Mindless and Paid Actors who only disrupt for a Dollar.

You guys best open your eyes and see this for what it is .... this is the Real Deal with REAL DEAL PEOPLE who are PISSED OFF BIG TIME.

The more you make fun and Ridicule them, the stronger they become.

I am telling you guys a Truth ... if the Child King does not back off, he is going to have Civil Unrest thru out this Nation as has never been seen the likes of before.

A Sleeping Giant HAS BEEN PISSED OFF and they ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE !!!!!!

Laugh at my post, mock, make fun, belittle, but this is real and it is about to go Nuclearly Uber-Nasty people.

Hang out in your goofy Cocoons and act as if this is Staged and Paid Actors and it will all end when they get tired ..... this is NOT Florida in 2000 .... these are Honest, Hard Working, Angry Americans who WANT ANSWERS and ARE NOT GETTING ANY.

It is at the Boiling Over Point and the Tiny Dictator better either Loose the Troops with orders to Fire at Will or he Best Listen ..... this is NOT going away.

.
bull****. These "protestors" are brought in by insurance companies(mainly through lobbyists) given talking points and are told how to disrupt the meetings.
08-07-2009 11:44 AM
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RE: New York Times' Paul Krugman is a POS
(08-07-2009 11:42 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  
(08-07-2009 11:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  And that does not support your conclusion that anyone is latching onto this.

People here are latching onto it, so I assume others are as well.

When I posted the links to the disruptions and chaos in Tampa last night, the general consensus from the right-wing posters here was "It's about time!!!"

They embrace this kinda stuff.

What they are not realizing is that the mushy middle - where most people are - are going to look at this stuff with revulsion and it's going to ultimately damage their arguments.

Uhhh, no. The "mushy middle" as you put it (independents) are shown by numerous polls to be running from this healthcare proposal in droves. Between the elderly and independents, if you don't have them, you lose. Even members of AARP are up in arms and beginning to revolt against their leadership. They feel like they have been sold out by an ideology driven leadership. They know that they will be the first to feel the effects of rationing.
08-07-2009 11:46 AM
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