(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 11:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 06:59 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 02:51 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Sam Houston State fired its head coach Phil Longo after a 1-7 record in his second season.

Some schools are serious about cutting their losses.

What did it cost them, in terms of his contract?
What would it cost us to do the same?

Don't interpret this as my support of firing (not that I have any say) - it's a financial question only.

I am more to learn why he thinks Sam Houston State should be our role model.

Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

We should find a head coach for two years and pay him $1 mm each year, when Abel is gone. If he is successful, give him a significant pay increase for an additional two to three years. If he walks, let him. There are plenty of coaches in college or the high school level who wluld jump at the chance.

(10-30-2026 01:35 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  We should find a head coach for two years and pay him $1 mm each year, when Abel is gone. If he is successful, give him a significant pay increase for an additional two to three years. If he walks, let him. There are plenty of coaches in college or the high school level who wluld jump at the chance.

After watching UTSA @ Tulane last week for the 15 minutes of bad football I could stomach, we need to decide soon or we'll be competing with our friends in New Orleans for a new coach.

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 11:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 06:59 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 02:51 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Sam Houston State fired its head coach Phil Longo after a 1-7 record in his second season.

Some schools are serious about cutting their losses.

What did it cost them, in terms of his contract?
What would it cost us to do the same?

Don't interpret this as my support of firing (not that I have any say) - it's a financial question only.

I am more to learn why he thinks Sam Houston State should be our role model.

Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

(10-29-2026 03:29 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(10-29-2026 12:31 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(10-29-2026 10:20 AM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(10-29-2026 09:04 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:  So three months ago, it seemed like this board wanted Brown to do whatever he could to get a 6th year of eligibility. Now, it is ready to move him to WR or slot. In 8 games, there is only one person who has at least 8 receptions (one per game). If Brown's talent is running with the ball, how much impact does he have at WR if he touches the ball one or two times a game?

Also, he is a redshirt senior and has had four years at Power 4 schools prior to this year. If he was really good as a WR, you would think that Miami or UCF would have moved him there since they were not playing him at QB. Or, maybe he did have potential, but he wanted to be a QB. I don't think he came to Rice to be a WR or slot. My guess is that he wants to be a QB, as if he just wanted to be on the field and had talent as a WR, that would have happened already. I would also guess that if he does find a way to get a 6th year of eligibility and if Rice says he would not be their QB next year, he will be on to his 4th school. I don't know him, so this is just a guess based on observations.

We're all operating under the assumption that he isn't getting a 6th year of eligibility. We're at a point where we can't improve on our record from last year so there's more to gain from Ochoa getting more playing experience than a slightly more athletic Jacurri Brown playing out the year. But we all acknowledge that Jacurri Brown is a beast so we want him to be involved somehow.

The safe options are you keep playing Jacurri as a QB but bring in Ochoa for a few plays each game, or the other way around. But we're not on this board to suggest safe boring options, we're here to say we want a player who's never been a receiver to use his height to catch balls over some poor unsuspecting corner from North Texas.

If we did know he was getting another year of eligibility I'd want both of them to keep playing QB.

“We're at a point where we can't improve on our record from last year”

Yeah, I disagree with that claim.

If we win out we'll only match last year's 5-7 regular season. Then we'd have to see if we luck into another APR bowl to have a chance to beat last years 5-8 record. Nobody left on our schedule would be a more impressive win than UConn last year.

Assuming Jacurri does give us a better chance of winning, do we value the possibility of another APR bowl and a 6-7 season more than the development of Ochoa before next year?

I will say though, maybe it is smart to keep Ochoa's playing time limited so there's less risk of him being seen as a transfer portal target. 2 or 3 more decent games and suddenly P4 schools with extra money to spend will gladly pay him more than we can to be a backup.

So the issue becomes: We are not winning games and will have a losing record. Do we play who we think are the better players or go to younger ones to give them experience? While I understand the reasoning for going with the younger players, it does not come without costs. For purposes of discussion, let's use Brown and Ochoa as an example. The coaching staff thinks that Brown is better based upon who they have chosen to play to date. Brown could be out of eligibility after this year, so maybe you play Ochoa to get experience for next year. Is Brown the cause of the losing record? I think he came to Rice because the coaches told him he was the guy. If he has played well, why should he have to sit or change positions because of the lack of success by the team? I would be livid if I thought I was playing well and lost my playing time because the team is bad. If I am a potential upperclass transfer and I see a similar player lose playing time because of the team's record and not his performance on the field, I would find another school, especially if I was uncertain about the team's ability to turn it around next year. Not a simple choice without consequences.

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 11:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 06:59 AM)Grungy Wrote:  What did it cost them, in terms of his contract?
What would it cost us to do the same?

Don't interpret this as my support of firing (not that I have any say) - it's a financial question only.

I am more to learn why he thinks Sam Houston State should be our role model.

Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

(10-30-2026 08:25 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 11:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am more to learn why he thinks Sam Houston State should be our role model.

Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

You are not Optimistic Owl. I would like to read his response, since he's the one who defers.

(10-30-2026 09:43 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 08:25 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

You are not Optimistic Owl. I would like to read his response, since he's the one who defers.

Apparently that is why I said "As for me." Perhaps you skimmed over that also.

(10-30-2026 09:53 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:43 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 08:25 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

You are not Optimistic Owl. I would like to read his response, since he's the one who defers.

Apparently that is why I said "As for me." Perhaps you skimmed over that also.

Okay - you are not answering the question, either. Got it.

(10-30-2026 09:59 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:53 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:43 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 08:25 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

You are not Optimistic Owl. I would like to read his response, since he's the one who defers.

Apparently that is why I said "As for me." Perhaps you skimmed over that also.

Okay - you are not answering the question, either. Got it.

And it is obvious that you skimmed over what I wrote. I refuse to copy and paste the previous messages in support of Abell. YOU look through all of the messages to find them since you ignored them.

(10-30-2026 04:47 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 01:28 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 12:49 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 11:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 06:59 AM)Grungy Wrote:  What did it cost them, in terms of his contract?
What would it cost us to do the same?

Don't interpret this as my support of firing (not that I have any say) - it's a financial question only.

I am more to learn why he thinks Sam Houston State should be our role model.

Much better to have a coaching staff engineering a regression from 5-8 to 1-7.

I think the record is meaningless to your opposition. You have been against this choice from the git-go.

You have advocated the Run 'n Shoot. If we hire a R&S guy (are there any left?),, and he is 1-7 in his second year, will you still be advocating that he be fired? And if so, what then will you be suggesting to replace it?

I question the ultimate efficiency of the short hook. What shortcuts, legal or not, will the next guy take if he knows he has only a year and a half or he too is out the door?

And do we want a Rice HC taking those shortcuts? Do we really want the coach to do "whatever it takes?

Rather than dealing with the obvious shortcomings of the current staff, you keep asking for an alternative plan. I responded before just to keep you from bringing that up, hoping that you would launch into a logical defense of Abell. You have refused to do so, other than by saying "what's the alternative?"

So, I am asking you directly - what it is that you see in Abell that would justify continuing down the current trajectory, other than a dogged determination to give every blasted coach an unending time period to prove his incompetence?

Before I answer, i take exception to certain words in your last sentence, namely
"dogged determination", "every blasted coach", "unending", and "incompetence". Total misrepresentation.

But to your question, I see some sort of option football to the best way for Rice to compete. I note the service academies, and the Hatfield record as supporting this. Especially in the era of NIL and the portal, I think trying to outmuscle the big boys using their same offense but lesser talent is doomed from the git-go. Is Abell's offense the answer? Too soon to tell, IMO. Although we have lost 7, several of those were close enough to be one play away from victory. Hardly an abject failure. Some could even use the word "competitive". Not like we are losing every game 72-3, which I think more likely just exchanging new faces every year and a half.

You have proposed an even more gimmicky offense, the Run 'n Shoot, that none of our players was recruited or trained for., that none have practiced, to be coache4d by ... who? I asked if you would be calling for the immediate firing of a coach in the same circumstances.

And I have asked if we want any new coach trying anything to win now, under the pressure to win immediately if not sooner, even if it is illegal. I have answered you - now answer me.

Let's take this a step further.

Suppose Abell is fired today, as you advocate, and that noted Run 'n shoot coach Johnny B. Cool is hired.

What offense will he run the last five games of this year?

Maybe Ochoa and/or Crayton can throw 50 passes a game. Can they complete 40? Will the line suddenly become aces at pass blocking? Are we suddenly going to get the 5 or 6 WRs to catch 40 passes?

So if Coach Cool goes 0-5 the rest of the year,, do you advocate firing him, and if so, who should we hire next. Or do you give him more time?

But say we give Coach Cool another year to prove himself, and he brings in 40 players from the portal - a couple of passers, a dozen WRs, a dozen or so OLs, and then starts the year 1-7? Fire the idiot, and hire another idiot. Because only idiots and desperate assistants will take a job in which they only have a year to a year and a half to install a new offense and win immediately.

Good luck with that plan.

Just because SHSU has a quick trigger does not mean everybody should have a quick trigger.

I, speaking just for me, will give Abell the rest of this season and all of next before I would consider firing him.

I did not advocate firing Abell today. I just pointed out that Sam Houston decided enough was enough. I would want Abell to finish the season. Thus, the remainder of your hypothetical is moot.

(10-31-2026 12:40 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I did not advocate firing Abell today. I just pointed out that Sam Houston decided enough was enough. I would want Abell to finish the season. Thus, the remainder of your hypothetical is moot.

I thought this was a board about Rice, our hopes and problems, not Sam Houston's or Duke's, or USC's, and so it would seem that whole point of pointing out that some schools don't wait to pull triggers would also be an indication that maybe we should follow suit. Sorry if that assumption was wrong. My bad.

Assuming we fire Abell at the end of this season. certainly a possibility with a possible 1-11 record and a new AD, what kind of coach using what kind of scheme should we go to?

If you want to stick with the Run 'n Shoot, the pass first attack, I have some questions:

1. Where do we get the WRs we need? Our top receiver now is Walker, who is a senior, and even he has several drops. Do we have any WRs currently on the roster capable of 10+ receptions per game, or do we need to make a wholesale effort to get them through the portal?
2. Ditto the OL. I don't know if these guys can pass block, especialy 50-60 times a game.
3. If we have to go heavily to the portal, where do we get the NIL?
4. Are Ochoa and/or Crayton good enough at passing to fill the bill, or do we need to go to the portal for a QB (or two) also?
5. I am not aware that any coaches are currently using this kind of offense, but if some are, which one(s) should we go after?

I will say that I prefer this idea to just going after a standard hungry assistant who will try to run the same schemes as everybody else. The only alternative I see to running some sort of nonstandard offense is to load up on defense and try to win every game 9-3. Again, the NIL would be a factor.

I appreciate your reporting on track and cross country. Thank you for that.

Go Rice!

I would like to use a system similar to that utilized by Eric Morris. Of course, we're not going to get that level of a quarterback, but I still believe we can get quick receivers who may not have the size sought after by P4 schools. But, if utilized correctly, this offense can be an effective rushing scheme, due to wide splits and the necessity of the defense using a nickel or dime most of the time.

I don't know if this would be the answer, but I agree that we must do something different. If we use what everyone else does, we will be at a physical disadvantage in that our academic and financial restrictions will limit our ability to get the same, or better level of talent.

At least with a more wide open scheme, the games won't be dreadfully boring. An option offense is not boring only if you win (as in the early Hatfield years).

(11-01-2026 11:45 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I would like to use a system similar to that utilized by Eric Morris. Of course, we're not going to get that level of a quarterback, but I still believe we can get quick receivers who may not have the size sought after by P4 schools. But, if utilized correctly, this offense can be an effective rushing scheme, due to wide splits and the necessity of the defense using a nickel or dime most of the time.

OK by me. I want whatever can help us win. If we bring in a coach that runs that offense, i will support him and advocate that he be given time.

Quote:I don't know if this would be the answer, but I agree that we must do something different. If we use what everyone else does, we will be at a physical disadvantage in that our academic and financial restrictions will limit our ability to get the same, or better level of talent.

100% agree.

Quote:At least with a more wide open scheme, the games won't be dreadfully boring. An option offense is not boring only if you win (as in the early Hatfield years).

I was never bored by 8-20 yard runs. The option is not Woody Hayes three yards and a cloud of dust. I enjoy watching the service academies. And I did not find the Fla. Atlantic game or the UTSA game or the WMU game at all boring. Did you? I didn't find the long TD runs by Brown and Ochoa boring at all.

And while a more wide open scheme may also bring moments of excitement, if it doesn't win, it will ultimately be boring too. The fourth quarter of a 38-14 game is usually not that exciting. I remember the Kramer years.

Three yards and a cloud of dust would be a great improvement to our current situation, we are stopped in the backfield far too often. We should play Tresselball with dominant special teams and running game. It would work better if all of our runningbacks weren't 5'8" or 5'9" but maybe that's all we can afford.

I certainly don't think either of those coaches would be taking snaps out of the shotgun on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches.

(10-30-2026 10:03 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:59 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:53 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 09:43 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(10-30-2026 08:25 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  As for me, I've seen quite a few reasons on this board for giving Abell more than just half a year with his own recruits. Perhaps you have not seen those comments, or possibly you chose to skim over them.

You are not Optimistic Owl. I would like to read his response, since he's the one who defers.

Apparently that is why I said "As for me." Perhaps you skimmed over that also.

Okay - you are not answering the question, either. Got it.

And it is obvious that you skimmed over what I wrote. I refuse to copy and paste the previous messages in support of Abell. YOU look through all of the messages to find them since you ignored them.

Beautiful response.

What a ridiculous debate. You don't get rid of a coach after 18 months. Other than WRC, who would seriously advocate for that? It's nonsensical. Embarrassing.

(11-02-2026 02:25 PM)OwlWKIF Wrote:  Three yards and a cloud of dust would be a great improvement to our current situation, we are stopped in the backfield far too often. We should play Tresselball with dominant special teams and running game. It would work better if all of our runningbacks weren't 5'8" or 5'9" but maybe that's all we can afford.

I certainly don't think either of those coaches would be taking snaps out of the shotgun on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches.

We're a shotgun offense. Snaps won't be taken under center, particularly on 4th and 1. It would only show our hand in short yardage situations.

(11-02-2026 03:33 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(11-02-2026 02:25 PM)OwlWKIF Wrote:  Three yards and a cloud of dust would be a great improvement to our current situation, we are stopped in the backfield far too often. We should play Tresselball with dominant special teams and running game. It would work better if all of our runningbacks weren't 5'8" or 5'9" but maybe that's all we can afford.

I certainly don't think either of those coaches would be taking snaps out of the shotgun on 3rd and 1 or 4th and inches.

We're a shotgun offense. Snaps won't be taken under center, particularly on 4th and 1. It would only show our hand in short yardage situations.

Show our hand? As if Abell would call for anything other than a run?

It's nonsensical. Embarrassing.