(10-21-2026 01:57 PM)Grungy Wrote:  W - Jess Neely took us to six bowls and had the team in the AP poll for 14 years: 1940-66 144-124-10 86-75-6
Did we run Neely off, or did he go back to his alma mater Vanderbilt as AD after a few losing seasons at Rice?
His last three years saw 4-6, 2-8, and 2-8 records.
Neely didn't coach again

Those last three years were my first three.

My understanding was that Neely had reached some sort of mandatory retirement age and the Administration refused to waive or extend it.

If you look at the fifties,, the SWC had a different champ every year. Neely seemed to take his turn about every 4-5 years.

But it doesn't matter - we can divide the history of football into two eras - the era of NIL and free transferring, and all the time before. The players and coaches before might as well be cavemen.

(10-21-2026 02:11 PM)Grungy Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 01:03 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Yes, they were good, but only Kramer and Clement had the acumen to QB the Run & Shoot, which requires a VERY gifted talent. None of the others mentioned here could do it, certainly not McHargue and Jackson. MAYBE Hollis could pull it off. Rote and Hill played before the forward pass was invented, so they really shouldn't even be part of the discussion. That leaves us with three QBs in the history of Rice Football who could QB the Run & Shoot. Just three, in 114 years of football.

Um, no.

The forward pass in American football was officially legalized by the rules committee in 1906 following intervention by President Theodore Roosevelt to make the violent sport safer. Saint Louis University quarterback Bradbury Robinson threw the first legal pass in a game on September 5, 1906

Rote threw two touchdown passes in a game versus UNC in 1950.
King Hill - 1957 - threw 78 passes for 1244 yards, and went on to be #1 in the NFL draft.

Those numbers were impressive in the 50's for sure.

(10-21-2026 02:54 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  Chase Daniels was probably the most talented passer other than Tommy.

Even Tebow wasn't a real NFL QB passer. Neither was Andre Ware. We need money and investments to put together a good team like Bailiff was able to do in 2013 (through recruiting/luck), with a talented cast that included multiple NFL players (Sendejo, McDonald, Luke Wilson, to name some), but consistently.

For something sustainable without a major investment, the Army/Navy system makes sense, which is why I believed in Abell's system but have since come down from that because there is a disadvantage to running the triple option 5 yards deep in the backfield vs under center. The theoretical passing advantage of playing out of the shotgun has not panned out so far. Hatfield had success but by the end he wasn't running the same flexbone of his early years and results became less consistent. There is no easy solution obviously. The money is not going to come in like even the UTSA's.

I prefer the true Triple Option also, but I'm more than willing to give Abell the time to implement his entire offense. We could find that it's more effective than the traditional option attack.

(10-21-2026 04:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 01:57 PM)Grungy Wrote:  W - Jess Neely took us to six bowls and had the team in the AP poll for 14 years: 1940-66 144-124-10 86-75-6
Did we run Neely off, or did he go back to his alma mater Vanderbilt as AD after a few losing seasons at Rice?
His last three years saw 4-6, 2-8, and 2-8 records.
Neely didn't coach again

Those last three years were my first three.

My understanding was that Neely had reached some sort of mandatory retirement age and the Administration refused to waive or extend it.

If you look at the fifties,, the SWC had a different champ every year. Neely seemed to take his turn about every 4-5 years.

But it doesn't matter - we can divide the history of football into two eras - the era of NIL and free transferring, and all the time before. The players and coaches before might as well be cavemen.

Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Right. Our athletes receive a stipend. I've heard the number is around $6k a year. The "special talents" receive larger payments through our NIL.

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

I think the fundamental question (and admittedly, other schools - like Stanford - are struggling with the same question) - why do our wealthiest alumni not want to bankroll a NIL program at Rice like the billionaires at other universities do?

Brian Armstrong, John Doerr, Ali Koc, Randa Duncan, Dunlevie, etc... Many (with the exception of Armstrong) have been heavily involved in university affairs over the years and are as wealthy (if not wealthier) as other schools' billionaires...

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Here is one estimate of Rice's NIL pool.

https://thesideline.co/nil-school/rice

More than I would have guessed, but shocked the estimate has Rice at only #9 in the American Conference.

FYI... the Tulsa team to which Rice just lost, has an estimated football NIL valued at 75% of Rice's NIL value.

Biggest spender in the American is South Florida with a total NIL pool 2.4 times that of Rice. 2.6 times as much for football.

Per this site, the NIL pool is valued at over $4 BILLION. Hope all these student athletes are paying their taxes!

(10-22-2026 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Here is one estimate of Rice's NIL pool.

https://thesideline.co/nil-school/rice

More than I would have guessed, but shocked the estimate has Rice at only #9 in the American Conference.

FYI... the Tulsa team to which Rice just lost, has an estimated football NIL valued at 75% of Rice's NIL value.

Biggest spender in the American is South Florida with a total NIL pool 2.4 times that of Rice. 2.6 times as much for football.

Per this site, the NIL pool is valued at over $4 BILLION. Hope all these student athletes are paying their taxes!

I thought Jacurri would be higher. I hope we use this kind of money to bring in playmakers at other positions or linemen. Could bring in two higher quality $125k receivers.

Assuming this is accurate, Aiden Smalls, the QB who flipped on us to be a receiver at NC State is making $191k. Wilhelm, the replacement QB, is making $81.5k. So if you want to put a price on giving up your dream of playing QB it's about $110k/year.

Chase Jenkins is making the most NIL out of anybody on the Kansas roster by a mile as a third string QB. $453k with the next closest being Dylan Edwards with $249k. Good for him.

Shocking how low we have Quinton Jackson. I assume him wanting to stay meant he was willing to accept a lower offer but I hope we don't lose future stars because we lowballed them on the offer. He was supposed to be our best and most important player and he was making less than an unproven Ben Grice and Davis Lane?

(10-22-2026 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Here is one estimate of Rice's NIL pool.

https://thesideline.co/nil-school/rice

More than I would have guessed, but shocked the estimate has Rice at only #9 in the American Conference.

FYI... the Tulsa team to which Rice just lost, has an estimated football NIL valued at 75% of Rice's NIL value.

Biggest spender in the American is South Florida with a total NIL pool 2.4 times that of Rice. 2.6 times as much for football.

Per this site, the NIL pool is valued at over $4 BILLION. Hope all these student athletes are paying their taxes!

$4.8 million to football is laughably off. I'm not sure if we would even surpass $1mn, it depends how much Brown is getting paid. This also may be factoring in hypothetical NIL deals that some athletes could negotiate between themselves and external companies/businesses.

The number I heard for Brown is around $250k. If that's the case, then I definitely don't think we are above $1mn.

(10-22-2026 01:00 PM)OwlWKIF Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Here is one estimate of Rice's NIL pool.

https://thesideline.co/nil-school/rice

More than I would have guessed, but shocked the estimate has Rice at only #9 in the American Conference.

FYI... the Tulsa team to which Rice just lost, has an estimated football NIL valued at 75% of Rice's NIL value.

Biggest spender in the American is South Florida with a total NIL pool 2.4 times that of Rice. 2.6 times as much for football.

Per this site, the NIL pool is valued at over $4 BILLION. Hope all these student athletes are paying their taxes!

$4.8 million to football is laughably off. I'm not sure if we would even surpass $1mn, it depends how much Brown is getting paid. This also may be factoring in hypothetical NIL deals that some athletes could negotiate between themselves and external companies/businesses.

The number I heard for Brown is around $250k. If that's the case, then I definitely don't think we are above $1mn.

Well, this source describes their methodology and sources, so if you have better data, I'm sure they'd appreciate your input.

(10-22-2026 01:00 PM)OwlWKIF Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 10:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2026 05:42 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Right. We're at a very big disadvantage. We're going to have to win with the lesser athletes. There's no other way. As long as we have high academic standards, and no direct payments to players, only the kids that want an education are coming to Rice.

Just for clarity... we DO have direct payments to every athlete on campus... some, just enough to fly home and back at breaks... but others in the tens of thousands... I'm not personally aware of (and honestly haven't looked) but will also not rule out 'more'. Some schools have multiple players earning seven figures.... and every starter earning six figures.

I'll give some generalities....

UT and other p5 schools have player payrolls around $50mm. IDK where schools like UH are but I'd ballpark them around $20. Most schools in g5 are generally between 3-10mm. I think FEDEX alone gives $5mm to Memphis. That's for ALL athletes... and many schools (unlike Rice) do not give ANY stipend to many or most sports... just the most notable ones.

Those are ballpark figures. If someone has better information, please defer to them.

Here is one estimate of Rice's NIL pool.

https://thesideline.co/nil-school/rice

More than I would have guessed, but shocked the estimate has Rice at only #9 in the American Conference.

FYI... the Tulsa team to which Rice just lost, has an estimated football NIL valued at 75% of Rice's NIL value.

Biggest spender in the American is South Florida with a total NIL pool 2.4 times that of Rice. 2.6 times as much for football.

Per this site, the NIL pool is valued at over $4 BILLION. Hope all these student athletes are paying their taxes!

$4.8 million to football is laughably off. I'm not sure if we would even surpass $1mn, it depends how much Brown is getting paid. This also may be factoring in hypothetical NIL deals that some athletes could negotiate between themselves and external companies/businesses.

The number I heard for Brown is around $250k. If that's the case, then I definitely don't think we are above $1mn.

The site has player estimates and Jacurri is at $276k which lines up with what you heard. Nobody else is making over 100k but a significant number is making over 50k, and with 100 player rosters it adds up.

If Jacurri Brown is making $276k, then he has been a very big waste of resources.

Tulsa is less then us and we still lost. Sounds like we need to drop some players for next year.

(10-22-2026 02:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  If Jacurri Brown is making $276k, then he has been a very big waste of resources.

Waiting for the DSA folks to descend on the college campuses. Where are Bernie and his bros with their protests and outrage targeted at college athletics?

Talk about a pay gap. Of 52k+ athletes receiving NIL money, the top 207 (top 0.4%) make >= $1M, with Miami's QB Mensah ($6.5M) topping the list.

(10-22-2026 02:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  If Jacurri Brown is making $276k, then he has been a very big waste of resources.

Jacurri is a long way from being the Owl's biggest problem.

(10-22-2026 05:03 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  Tulsa is less then us and we still lost. Sounds like we need to drop some players for next year.

(10-22-2026 02:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  If Jacurri Brown is making $276k, then he has been a very big waste of resources.

I wish Brown the very best, but I hope he's not returning next season. It's time to move on. Ochoa and Wilhelm have talent. Let them play.

The enept coaching staff is for not using him to fit his strengths.

(10-22-2026 05:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(10-22-2026 05:03 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  Tulsa is less then us and we still lost. Sounds like we need to drop some players for next year.

(10-22-2026 02:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  If Jacurri Brown is making $276k, then he has been a very big waste of resources.

I wish Brown the very best, but I hope he's not returning next season. It's time to move on. Ochoa and Wilhelm have talent. Let them play.

Was a good read in WSJ a couple weeks ago about unintended consequences of big NIL deals and what happens if they bust. Was citing high profile situations like Underwood at Michigan and Reed at A&M and also situations at Penn St, Oklahoma and others. Takeaway was that in old days, coaches built depth but nowadays, the second string guy can go start somewhere else although maybe not as high profile but play. Thus if a school invests wrong and guy busts or $ guy gets hurt, it has not just a financial problem but also W-L problems b/c of NIL changing depth. Days of Tua coming into relieve Jalen Hurts are long gone and Saban's timing to exit was perfect.

For Rice/Abell, $275K (if true) is a big, highly speculative/questionable investment for a kid who is a great runner but a crappy thrower in an unorthodox offense that needs both skills to be effective. And for all of these young kids, learning early lesson of accountability of what happens when you take a big check. And that is that $ have strings which = big expectations

NIL payments (cash and FMV of noncash compensation) are subject to income tax plus SSA and Medicare taxes if over $400/yr. Taxes are typically not withheld from such payments and are subject to the quarterly paying of taxes to avoid penalties. Hope those receiving such payments are educated on their tax payment responsibilities. Do the schools provide such education? I'm sure those receiving large payments have agents handing such matters, but what about the majority of those receiving a few thousand dollars?

Things were easier in the old days when taxes weren't paid on under the table payments, although technically such payments were subject to taxes.

And no, I'm not a tax expert, just a long time tax payer.