(10-13-2026 01:26 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 12:59 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 11:09 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 04:39 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-12-2026 08:04 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  PSU women's volleyball has eight women's national championships, all in or after 1999 and we've got two men's as well. Go ahead, stack Louisville up next to it with your no volleyball championships in either gender. You win basketball, obviously, but our non-revenue sports literally lap yours. We're strong in ice hockey, WVB, men's wrestling, lacrosse and soccer. And when I say strong I mean the team either has or wants national championships in all of them. We're talking laughing baby vs hydrogen bomb here.

You completely missed the point....We were being targeted as being a protected entity at the expense of other schools....I pointed out that we have multiple other sports that get eyeballs and make money for tv (ESPN) such as baseball, basketball, and volleyball. I'm not sure wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, etc that you named are doing the same numbers. Not even sure I recall you all on national tv in volleyball currently.

Point is, we hold our own, make money for conference and tv partners, and don't need to be targeted as a program needing protection.

We're more than carrying our weight compared to multiple money leaches in the Big 10.

We're a Fox conference, you'd have to watch the Fox channels to see it. And yeah, there's less of them. PSU is still more valuable in non-revs than Louisville.

Fully aware of your tv affiliation....Going to need to see some numbers on that non rev prediction. To the eyes, it would seem our BBall, Volleyball, Baseball, and occasional other non rev sports would still do better.

You do know that conference tv payouts are done equally between all teams, right? The only "numbers" I can give you is the Big Ten deal versus the ACC one, which shows Penn State being worth tens of millions of dollars more.

Well in volleyball we're a bigger brand with more fans in general and then add in that the actual program is better with more history and its no competition. Baseball and ice hockey are generally considered to be of a similar status in general revenue with hockey being for northerners and baseball for southerners. PSU wrestling is the current super power in that sport and has won something like 8 of the past ten national championships. Pennsylvania is also the heart of high school wrestling. It was actually a revenue sport at Penn State prior to NIL (so was hockey.) Then you factor in that Penn State has a full dozen more sponsored sports than Louisville and the joke that is your comparison becomes complete.

As to basketball. Irrelevant to the discussion. If Louisville gets to count basketball then Penn State gets to count football.

Again, it was what does each school bring to the tv/conference in these non rev sports...not that High School wrestling is awesome, or PSU has 45 sports you sponsor, or before NIL these sports were money makers...No we're talking about current days, where the times have certainly changed....See your football teams on field results as a sign of the times.....And finally that turned into our unnecessary sidebar to original point being made.

The original was your fellow fan targeting us as a weight on the ACC to need to protect, which is just fundamentally an inaccurate statement in monumental levels athletically on the field/court and off in spending and generating revenue.

I’ve only scanned some recent posts but will offer this: Louisville is likely the most under appreciated conference asset in college sports.

If they were to leave the ACC for the B12 at any point (which could easily happen) the ACC would likely be unable to raid the B12 for any of it’s top assets in a future realignment scenario.

That’s my two cents, anyway.

(10-13-2026 06:46 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 01:26 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 12:59 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 11:09 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 04:39 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  You completely missed the point....We were being targeted as being a protected entity at the expense of other schools....I pointed out that we have multiple other sports that get eyeballs and make money for tv (ESPN) such as baseball, basketball, and volleyball. I'm not sure wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, etc that you named are doing the same numbers. Not even sure I recall you all on national tv in volleyball currently.

Point is, we hold our own, make money for conference and tv partners, and don't need to be targeted as a program needing protection.

We're more than carrying our weight compared to multiple money leaches in the Big 10.

We're a Fox conference, you'd have to watch the Fox channels to see it. And yeah, there's less of them. PSU is still more valuable in non-revs than Louisville.

Fully aware of your tv affiliation....Going to need to see some numbers on that non rev prediction. To the eyes, it would seem our BBall, Volleyball, Baseball, and occasional other non rev sports would still do better.

You do know that conference tv payouts are done equally between all teams, right? The only "numbers" I can give you is the Big Ten deal versus the ACC one, which shows Penn State being worth tens of millions of dollars more.

Well in volleyball we're a bigger brand with more fans in general and then add in that the actual program is better with more history and its no competition. Baseball and ice hockey are generally considered to be of a similar status in general revenue with hockey being for northerners and baseball for southerners. PSU wrestling is the current super power in that sport and has won something like 8 of the past ten national championships. Pennsylvania is also the heart of high school wrestling. It was actually a revenue sport at Penn State prior to NIL (so was hockey.) Then you factor in that Penn State has a full dozen more sponsored sports than Louisville and the joke that is your comparison becomes complete.

As to basketball. Irrelevant to the discussion. If Louisville gets to count basketball then Penn State gets to count football.

Again, it was what does each school bring to the tv/conference in these non rev sports...not that High School wrestling is awesome, or PSU has 45 sports you sponsor, or before NIL these sports were money makers...No we're talking about current days, where the times have certainly changed....See your football teams on field results as a sign of the times.....And finally that turned into our unnecessary sidebar to original point being made.

The original was your fellow fan targeting us as a weight on the ACC to need to protect, which is just fundamentally an inaccurate statement in monumental levels athletically on the field/court and off in spending and generating revenue.

Penn State is one of the nation's ten most valuable non-revenue programs because it has a massive home territory, a massive national fan and alumni base, lots of sports in general and lots of sports that it plays at a very high level. When I said that its nonrevs lapped Louisville's I wasn't being facetious, I was telling you the truth. And just so you know, in the areas where college wrestling is popular, it is as popular or more as college baseball is in its area of popularity, ditto ice hockey.

As to Louisville I've been consistent that it is a victim of location. Neither P2 is interested in adding the second most widely followed program in Kentucky with bad academics.That you've played at such a high level in both revenue sports is a credit to a smart AD but your ceiling is the ACC and schools with a higher ceiling, such as the gang of four, should not be shackled to you.

(10-13-2026 11:18 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 10:51 AM)bullet Wrote:  The risk on that 6 years before the 3 year waiting period goes away is that Congress could later extend that.

I do think 22 is a bad number. It is perhaps worse than no cap. It likely leaves schools stranded and doesn't bring anyone up.

20 leaves room for anyone who actually contributes financially to the Big Ten or SEC as opposed to schools taken because the Big Ten and SEC are playing Risk. And the idea of anti-trust is to stop entities from playing Risk to the detriment of other parties.

The idea of anti-trust in this context is to prevent the conferences from getting too large, gobbling up all of the best programs and dominating market share.

I think that the appetite for further expansion is pretty muted. 2-4 from the ACC is probably it, and there's a nonzero chance that nobody does any backfilling once the P2 are done.

(10-13-2026 07:01 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Penn State is one of the nation's ten most valuable non-revenue programs because it has a massive home territory, a massive national fan and alumni base, lots of sports in general and lots of sports that it plays at a very high level. When I said that its nonrevs lapped Louisville's I wasn't being facetious, I was telling you the truth. And just so you know, in the areas where college wrestling is popular, it is as popular or more as college baseball is in its area of popularity, ditto ice hockey.

As to Louisville I've been consistent that it is a victim of location. Neither P2 is interested in adding the second most widely followed program in Kentucky with bad academics.That you've played at such a high level in both revenue sports is a credit to a smart AD but your ceiling is the ACC and schools with a higher ceiling, such as the gang of four, should not be shackled to you.

Accredited public institutions do not have ‘bad academics.’ Tertiary education at a state university is very much worth having and the University of Louisville far excels baseline standards. Good for you if you get in.

I like the Cardinals for the SEC. I want to see the conference membership cap, if there is one, placed high enough that all qualified schools can reach their goals. Louisville runs a fine year-round athletics program and people watch their games.

__

(10-13-2026 06:37 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Big 12 for UofL in it, with new tv deal in 2031/32, exit/entrance fee paid for by first wave of ACC schools sounding like the place to be more and more.

I hope that works out for you.

I'm not sure where your buddy's animosity comes from. Louisville has consistently been given marquee treatment.

(10-13-2026 07:46 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 07:01 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Penn State is one of the nation's ten most valuable non-revenue programs because it has a massive home territory, a massive national fan and alumni base, lots of sports in general and lots of sports that it plays at a very high level. When I said that its nonrevs lapped Louisville's I wasn't being facetious, I was telling you the truth. And just so you know, in the areas where college wrestling is popular, it is as popular or more as college baseball is in its area of popularity, ditto ice hockey.

As to Louisville I've been consistent that it is a victim of location. Neither P2 is interested in adding the second most widely followed program in Kentucky with bad academics.That you've played at such a high level in both revenue sports is a credit to a smart AD but your ceiling is the ACC and schools with a higher ceiling, such as the gang of four, should not be shackled to you.

Accredited public institutions do not have ‘bad academics.’ Tertiary education at a state university is very much worth having and the University of Louisville far excels baseline standards. Good for you if you get in.

I like the Cardinals for the SEC. I want to see the conference membership cap, if there is one, placed high enough that all qualified schools can reach their goals. Louisville runs a fine year-round athletics program and people watch their games.

__

Some accredited institutions do have bad academics.

But nobody in the P4 does. Louisville is just below average among P4 institutions.

There’s the Catholics vs Convicts game…Maybe we should set up the Smarties vs Dummies series…in football, basketball (Men’s & women’s), Volleyball, Baseball weekend series, soccer (Men’s and Women’s) we’ll throw in our club wresting and hockey teams to get our guys some experience and give the smarties a chance…We can call it the Neeli Challenge after our former president, their current one….Winner takes others tv paycheck for the year …I’m feeling pretty good about that outcome!

(10-13-2026 07:46 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 07:01 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Penn State is one of the nation's ten most valuable non-revenue programs because it has a massive home territory, a massive national fan and alumni base, lots of sports in general and lots of sports that it plays at a very high level. When I said that its nonrevs lapped Louisville's I wasn't being facetious, I was telling you the truth. And just so you know, in the areas where college wrestling is popular, it is as popular or more as college baseball is in its area of popularity, ditto ice hockey.

As to Louisville I've been consistent that it is a victim of location. Neither P2 is interested in adding the second most widely followed program in Kentucky with bad academics.That you've played at such a high level in both revenue sports is a credit to a smart AD but your ceiling is the ACC and schools with a higher ceiling, such as the gang of four, should not be shackled to you.

Accredited public institutions do not have ‘bad academics.’ Tertiary education at a state university is very much worth having and the University of Louisville far excels baseline standards. Good for you if you get in.

I like the Cardinals for the SEC. I want to see the conference membership cap, if there is one, placed high enough that all qualified schools can reach their goals. Louisville runs a fine year-round athletics program and people watch their games.

__

Mate’

Well realignment has been pretty crazy recently. 47 of the 138 schools have moved in the last 4 years, 4 in 22, 14 in 23, 15 in 24 and 3 in 25 and 11 in 26. And 62 of the 91 who haven't are in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12 or MAC.

(10-13-2026 06:28 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 03:17 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-12-2026 09:08 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  As long as we’re sharing add-money-to-buy-a-cup-of-coffee opinions, I’d like to see the conference membership cap set at 24.

Get all the Magnificent 7 and Silicon Valley schools into destination conferences that make them happy. Get Louisville into the SEC where they can even make Kentucky interesting. Let Duke go anywhere and see if anybody notices.

That is in the nature of a micro-adjustment. On a more grand scale:

Go back to the year 1905. Take a box of really great cigars. Have a long chat with Theodore Roosevelt and tell him everything that is going to happen if he doesn’t smack everything into shape right here and now. Then let the man cook.

Coach K already stated that Duke would be happy to compete in the Big East. The Blue Devils have multiple endowments and certainly don't need the money or the aggravation. Duke University probably owns enough of Duke Energy, alone, to buy the entirety of Florida State lock-stock-and-barrel.

University endowments are not being used to fund sports programs. Probably not anywhere. Definitely not a place like Duke.

Stanford's entire athletic department is fully endowed.

By the end of 2027 all of Carolina's non-revenue sports, plus baseball, will be fully endowed.

I can't speak as to how Duke finances their Olympic Sports.

ACC TV Ratings for 2026

It seems we are doing just fine, and playing a positive part for the ACC with regard to tv ratings, and generating revenue. So not sure we're one to point out needing to be protected from the conference.

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

(10-16-2026 09:09 AM)FSBlueApocalypse Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

Interesting reading.

Wonder who was pushing the 5 year independence requirement that Cruz said was critical.

They did get the non-negotiable bill changed from a cap of 19 to 20 and from a 5 year indpendence clause to 3 with a 6 year sunset provision.

(10-16-2026 09:09 AM)FSBlueApocalypse Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

Yes very interesting. Good to know that the FSU prez and FSU BOT Chair are working together and not against. Seems like no egos are getting in the way.

(10-16-2026 09:09 AM)FSBlueApocalypse Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

IIRC, anti-PE & super-league prohibition, conference caps, and “independence” requirements were all initially reported in late July. Specifically, after the B1G and SEC decided to support the legislation. Later in the article, it confirms that NCAA first communicated those provisions on July 31.

The FSU Board Chairman states that the ACC didn’t message those controversial provisions in late May when the FSU President confirmed initial support for PCSA. What’s unsaid is whether those provisions even existed at the time, or why no one identified/reported those provisions.

(10-16-2026 12:06 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-16-2026 09:09 AM)FSBlueApocalypse Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

IIRC, anti-PE & super-league prohibition, conference caps, and “independence” requirements were all initially reported in late July. Specifically, after the B1G and SEC decided to support the legislation. Later in the article, it confirms that NCAA first communicated those provisions on July 31.

The FSU Board Chairman states that the ACC didn’t message those controversial provisions in late May when the FSU President confirmed initial support for PCSA. What’s unsaid is whether those provisions even existed at the time, or why no one identified/reported those provisions.

They were probably buried in the ACC vault next to the ironclad GoR.

(10-16-2026 12:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-16-2026 12:06 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(10-16-2026 09:09 AM)FSBlueApocalypse Wrote:  https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-s...sports-act

Really interesting article with FSU's chairman about the PCSA.

Accuses ACC of not giving schools the full picture and there were other ACC schools on the call that lead to FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC signing the 9/29 letter.

IIRC, anti-PE & super-league prohibition, conference caps, and “independence” requirements were all initially reported in late July. Specifically, after the B1G and SEC decided to support the legislation. Later in the article, it confirms that NCAA first communicated those provisions on July 31.

The FSU Board Chairman states that the ACC didn’t message those controversial provisions in late May when the FSU President confirmed initial support for PCSA. What’s unsaid is whether those provisions even existed at the time, or why no one identified/reported those provisions.

They were probably buried in the ACC vault next to the ironclad GoR.

Vault? Do you mean the leatherette satchel with the 3 digit dial code? I do love the conspiracy angle, however. Nothing like a conspiracy to make the ordinary perfunctory decisions of a business seem nefarious and those impacted to feel important for having to carry out the Herculean task of overthrowing the monolithic faceless machine of the cabal that is against them in order to preserve whatever it is they must preserve, maybe this year's fig crop. It all lends such nobility to simply being a helpless fan who doesn't know why their academic leadership is pondering a move for the future of their alma mater.

If anyone ever wonders how much college sports means in the South? FSU is your answer! The whole state stops what it is doing to rally behind the cause, and that is admirable.

It really is amazing how often the sneaky ACC dupes poor ol’ FSU, ger guwash, Mickey!

(10-13-2026 02:58 PM)Blust3 Wrote:  

(10-13-2026 04:39 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-12-2026 08:04 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(10-12-2026 06:29 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(10-12-2026 05:02 PM)schmolik Wrote:  So? The ACC to me is Jim Phillips. The Big Ten to me is Tony Petitti. The SEC to me is Greg Sankey. The schools are in these conferences, some are charter members. But we saw with UCLA/USC and Texas/Oklahoma that they would leave for a higher payday if they had a chance. The only difference in the case of the Big Ten and SEC is there isn't considered to be a more valuable conference ... yet.

I've said before that for a lot of these if schools "upgrade" it usually allows the school in question better competition and the conference a better school. The Big 12 thought it was better that Texas and Oklahoma stayed but more people watched Texas play Georgia the last two years than they watched Texas play any Big 12 opponent since 2015. You don't think fans would rather Miami play either Ohio State or Alabama than play Boston College (it's not 1984 and Doug Flutie isn't still playing!) If the ACC is "killed" or becomes the new Pac 12, honestly it doesn't bother me. If a "superconference" between the top SEC and Big 10 schools forms and Illinois is left behind, it's Illinois's fault for not being good enough to be included. Is it fair Miami makes less money than Rutgers? No it's not. Give them a chance to get on a level playing field, don't handicap them just to protect Jim Phillips or Louisville.

Protecting a program with several non rev sports ranked yearly including right now, top 10 brand in basketball, and holds our own in football on the field, spending on roster/program, and in drawing eyeballs to tvs....

Would like to do that same autopsy into over 1/2 of the Big 10 and bottom third of SEC... TV likes UofL baseball, volleyball, and both basketball teams...I'd like to see those dollars made for tv and conference vs say PSU. Would be a fun exercise.

PSU women's volleyball has eight women's national championships, all in or after 1999 and we've got two men's as well. Go ahead, stack Louisville up next to it with your no volleyball championships in either gender. You win basketball, obviously, but our non-revenue sports literally lap yours. We're strong in ice hockey, WVB, men's wrestling, lacrosse and soccer. And when I say strong I mean the team either has or wants national championships in all of them. We're talking laughing baby vs hydrogen bomb here.

You completely missed the point....We were being targeted as being a protected entity at the expense of other schools....I pointed out that we have multiple other sports that get eyeballs and make money for tv (ESPN) such as baseball, basketball, and volleyball. I'm not sure wrestling, hockey, lacrosse, etc that you named are doing the same numbers. Not even sure I recall you all on national tv in volleyball currently.

Point is, we hold our own, make money for conference and tv partners, and don't need to be targeted as a program needing protection.

We're more than carrying our weight compared to multiple money leaches in the Big 10.

Miami, Florida State and Clemson don't have other sports or don't care for other sports. Football is everything to them. So they want to move to a true football conference like SEC or B1G.

While Clemson certainly is a football first school, the one sport that they have arguably achieved more success at is men's soccer. They have 4 national championships (tied for 4th all time among all ncaa schools) and have routinely been one of the top men's soccer programs for well over 50 years. Clemson cares very much about it's men's soccer program and the fact that the SEC does not sponsor men's soccer would be significant. However, I do agree that football trumps all else and if they were to receive an invitation to join the SEC, they would accept immediately.