(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

how are they going sustain mfg. if we reduce their power grid/fuel supply to zilch ... at some point (in the not-too-distant), their inventory is going to run dry...

they have zero out from here with their current posture ... what you're not taking into account is death to the finish (although you did acknowledge 'biting off more than they can chew') is a righteous one vs. surrender in their eyes....

all that is to be decided now is how hard and quickly do we go after what remains...

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

(03-26-2026 09:49 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

Iran is basically being threatened existentially...they're not just going to wave the white flag.

(03-26-2026 09:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:49 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

Iran is basically being threatened existentially...they're not just going to wave the white flag.

No **** sherlock... again, I was wondering WHO had access to that list and how it got out.

Edit: And what other data may have gotten in the hands of Handala.

(03-26-2026 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:49 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

Iran is basically being threatened existentially...they're not just going to wave the white flag.

No **** sherlock... again, I was wondering WHO had access to that list and how it got out.

Those are the types of things a curious politician has access to. Let me think, do we have anyone who might be sympathetic to radical Islam in Congress? Hmm.

It's also the kind of thing someone with personnel access within corporations would be able to access. Do we have anyone who might be sympathetic to radical Islam in corporate positions with that kind of access? Hmm.

Now toss out those who might be sympathetic to radical Islam, and insert those which may be sympathetic to Russia or China? Yep, got those too!

How about regular old malcontents who think they are stirring the pot by ridiculously supporting things hostile to the U.S.? Got those too!

Perhaps Pogo is correct again, "I have met the enemy and he is us!"

Perhaps it's time to have background checks mandatory for access to any information deemed critical to national security or critical to the safety of our personnel. And perhaps it is also time to quit playing gender and racial and religious politics with national security.

(03-26-2026 10:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 10:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:49 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

Iran is basically being threatened existentially...they're not just going to wave the white flag.

No **** sherlock... again, I was wondering WHO had access to that list and how it got out.

Those are the types of things a curious politician has access to. Let me think, do we have anyone who might be sympathetic to radical Islam in Congress? Hmm.

It's also the kind of thing someone with personnel access within corporations would be able to access. Do we have anyone who might be sympathetic to radical Islam in corporate positions with that kind of access? Hmm.

Now toss out those who might be sympathetic to radical Islam, and insert those which may be sympathetic to Russia or China? Yep, got those too!

How about regular old malcontents who think they are stirring the pot by ridiculously supporting things hostile to the U.S.? Got those too!

Perhaps Pogo is correct again, "I have met the enemy and he is us!"

Perhaps it's time to have background checks mandatory for access to any information deemed critical to national security or critical to the safety of our personnel. And perhaps it is also time to quit playing gender and racial and religious politics with national security.

Anybody involved in those programs have to have TSSCI. I'd find it hard to believe that someone at Lockheed leaked it purposefully thanks to those background checks. Now Congress... yeah, that could be a huge risk.

Apparently Israel dropped canned fish to IRGC members at bases, and when they opened the can, it exploded. Lots of injuries supposedly.

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

I dont agree with that at all. The crappy little Shaed-136 drones are easily intercepted. The key is to intercept them in a way that is economically sustainable. You dont want to spend 2 million on an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile to splash a Shahed drone that cost $30K. Between complete air supremacy and a presence along the coast---that should be enough to provide a protective belt where these drones can be eliminated before they threaten shipping. Eventually, as the leadership will learn that continuing on the current government behavior path is a death sentence for anyone promoted to leadership. Once that sinks in, along with the fact they no longer have any means of projecting power---they will be forced to make a deal (assuming their people or the regular military doesnt overthrow the regime before they figure out the obvious).

(03-26-2026 09:02 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:00 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

They're leaving b/c we're about to turn Iran into a big smudge spot in the middle of the desert, and they will likely try to retaliate.

Doesn't matter, they clearly managed to get into someone's network and steal employee data. Who knows what else they may have, or leads on how to find it.

Sounds like we have another set of targets to hit in Iran. Hackers and their Ministry of Intelligence and Security. Wipe them out.

(03-26-2026 10:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

I dont agree with that at all. The crappy little Shaed-136 drones are easily intercepted. The key is to intercept them in a way that is economically sustainable. You dont want to spend 2 million on an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile to splash a Shahed drone that cost $30K. Between complete air supremacy and a presence along the coast---that should be enough to provide a protective belt where these drones can be eliminated before they threaten shipping. Eventually, as the leadership will learn that continuing on the current government behavior path is a death sentence for anyone promoted to leadership. Once that sinks in, along with the fact they no longer have any means of projecting power---they will be forced to make a deal (assuming their people or the regular military doesnt overthrow the regime before they figure out the obvious).

That's the idea.

(03-26-2026 09:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:49 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 08:53 AM)mlb Wrote:  I have friends who work those programs state side. This one hits close to home. Not sure where the data originated yet.

6 letters. Starts with an R. Rhymes with Prussia.

Could be, but Iran is quite sophisticated when it comes to computer attacks and Handala is suspected to be state sponsored by Iran. But I was referring to where the data originated, not who stole it. If it is limited to just the people serving in Israel then who had that spreadsheet that could have been compromised (or handed it over)?

Iran is basically being threatened existentially...they're not just going to wave the white flag.

To be clear in all fairness does this make you viscerally ill that they are disenfranchised?.

Prog filth and their buzzwords.

(03-26-2026 09:46 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

how are they going sustain mfg. if we reduce their power grid/fuel supply to zilch ... at some point (in the not-too-distant), their inventory is going to run dry...

they have zero out from here with their current posture ... what you're not taking into account is death to the finish (although you did acknowledge 'biting off more than they can chew') is a righteous one vs. surrender in their eyes....

all that is to be decided now is how hard and quickly do we go after what remains...

For drones they legitimately don't even have to manufacture anymore to be a problem for an insane length of time. By all accounts they have 10's of thousands of them. What you don't want to actually think about is how are we going to manufacture enough interceptors and missile defense systems to protect our assets and allies in the region? We are going to run out of those long before they run out of drones and missiles, and those take years to replenish.

(03-26-2026 10:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

I dont agree with that at all. The crappy little Shaed-136 drones are easily intercepted. The key is to intercept them in a way that is economically sustainable. You dont want to spend 2 million on an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile to splash a Shahed drone that cost $30K. Between complete air supremacy and a presence along the coast---that should be enough to provide a protective belt where these drones can be eliminated before they threaten shipping. Eventually, as the leadership will learn that continuing on the current government behavior path is a death sentence for anyone promoted to leadership. Once that sinks in, along with the fact they no longer have any means of projecting power---they will be forced to make a deal (assuming their people or the regular military doesnt overthrow the regime before they figure out the obvious).

That's the problem though, we don't have a cheap way to shoot those things down. They have 10's of thousands of them and they cost essentially nothing to make, and everything we have to shoot them down costs millions and takes years to produce. Also, a presence along the coast? So you mean troops on the ground across the entire coast of Iran? Do you realize how much coast you are talking about here? There is over 900 miles of Iranian coastline from the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Oman. To put that into perspective they have about 100 miles more of coastline there than the state of California. You are not holding that and intercepting everything they try to shoot with some small force. Iran is a massive country. 4 times the size of Iraq, 2.5 times the size of Texas, roughly the same land area of France, Germany, Spain, and the UK. We don't have the planes to control the entirety of that sky 247 nor do we have the stomach to put in the number of troops needed to control that entire coastline to ensure ships can go through the strait. They also don't need to show the ability to hit every single ship that tries to cross to close it, they just have to show the ability to hit one and no one will insure them and the strait is closed. On the other hand we'd have to show we have the ability to 100% secure safe passage for all ships or they aren't going to risk it. The bar they have to clear to keep it closed is very low and very easy for them to do.

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

No, I'm saying the Strait is going to be shut down until we can effect regime change, and hoping that can be done through a continued air campaign, plus Iranian military defections, plus the populace rising up.

Btw, Ukraine shoots down drones with $1400 anti-drones.

(03-26-2026 12:41 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

No, I'm saying the Strait is going to be shut down until we can effect regime change, and hoping that can be done through a continued air campaign, plus Iranian military defections, plus the populace rising up.

Btw, Ukraine shoots down drones with $1400 anti-drones.

I hope to win the lottery as well.

And yes, we could massively invest in cheap 1 way drones to combat them. One problem with that, you can't have the hundreds of billions a year in military industrial complex grift if we did that so LOLOL that we are actually going to do that.

Hey BoJo, if I couldn't find my birth certificate and had to ask my mommy for it, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize the US military.

(03-26-2026 12:55 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Hey BoJo, if I couldn't find my birth certificate and had to ask my mommy for it, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize the US military.

Nice red herring! Wanna talk about paying my loans or something else that has nothing to do with the subject at hand? People who have the facts on their side don't have to be this pathetic.

(03-26-2026 12:36 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 10:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

I dont agree with that at all. The crappy little Shaed-136 drones are easily intercepted. The key is to intercept them in a way that is economically sustainable. You dont want to spend 2 million on an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile to splash a Shahed drone that cost $30K. Between complete air supremacy and a presence along the coast---that should be enough to provide a protective belt where these drones can be eliminated before they threaten shipping. Eventually, as the leadership will learn that continuing on the current government behavior path is a death sentence for anyone promoted to leadership. Once that sinks in, along with the fact they no longer have any means of projecting power---they will be forced to make a deal (assuming their people or the regular military doesnt overthrow the regime before they figure out the obvious).

That's the problem though, we don't have a cheap way to shoot those things down. They have 10's of thousands of them and they cost essentially nothing to make, and everything we have to shoot them down costs millions and takes years to produce. Also, a presence along the coast? So you mean troops on the ground across the entire coast of Iran? Do you realize how much coast you are talking about here? There is over 900 miles of Iranian coastline from the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Oman. To put that into perspective they have about 100 miles more of coastline there than the state of California. You are not holding that and intercepting everything they try to shoot with some small force. Iran is a massive country. 4 times the size of Iraq, 2.5 times the size of Texas, roughly the same land area of France, Germany, Spain, and the UK. We don't have the planes to control the entirety of that sky 247 nor do we have the stomach to put in the number of troops needed to control that entire coastline to ensure ships can go through the strait. They also don't need to show the ability to hit every single ship that tries to cross to close it, they just have to show the ability to hit one and no one will insure them and the strait is closed. On the other hand we'd have to show we have the ability to 100% secure safe passage for all ships or they aren't going to risk it. The bar they have to clear to keep it closed is very low and very easy for them to do.

There are small islands all along the coast near the Strait. You dont have to take and hold the whole coast to create the presence needed for drone interceptions. Also, you dont have to have the entire coast covered---its jsut right around the Strait where the distance from shore to tankers would be so short that you'd have little warning. Thats where you need that coastal interception presence. Where you have more distance and more time to intercept drones, escorts and an air umbrella should be adequate to defend against the drone threat. I also note these drone interceptors are small and very mobile. Once we get it figured out, there is no reason we can't just have Marine drone interception teams placed on onboard each tanker as it enters the danger zone. The anti-drone teams could just move from tanker to tanker via choppers as long as needed.

Secondly---and this is where I have a problem with Trump---the Ukrainians have a CHEAP drone interceptor solution for these Shahed-136 prop driven drones. We have a drone interceptor (The Coyote)----and its quite good--but it costs $100K a drone. Now thats WAAAY better than a missile---but it still loses the economic battle as your spending 100 grand to knock out a $30K drone. The Ukrainians are building effective interceptor drones for couple thousand dollars each (or less). THATS what we need---and Trump rejecting their expertise in this area is just dumb.

(03-26-2026 01:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 12:36 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 10:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2026 09:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 03:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Let me try this again. I'm not saying Iran has used, or will use, missiles to close the Strait of Hormuz. That's ridiculous.

What I meant was, as long as they have that capability, they can threaten and shut down the Strait from any damn where, so until we completely eliminate their missile threat, or any other offensive threat, the Strait is not going to be open.

And Leavitt said very clearly almost 2 weeks ago that Trump was briefed on the possibility of Iran closing the Strait, ahead of time.

Then you are saying the strait is going to be shut down until there are boots on the ground, and not some small amount to take an island but actually on the ground in mainland Iran. There is no completely eliminating their ability to fire drones at the strait otherwise.

I dont agree with that at all. The crappy little Shaed-136 drones are easily intercepted. The key is to intercept them in a way that is economically sustainable. You dont want to spend 2 million on an Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile to splash a Shahed drone that cost $30K. Between complete air supremacy and a presence along the coast---that should be enough to provide a protective belt where these drones can be eliminated before they threaten shipping. Eventually, as the leadership will learn that continuing on the current government behavior path is a death sentence for anyone promoted to leadership. Once that sinks in, along with the fact they no longer have any means of projecting power---they will be forced to make a deal (assuming their people or the regular military doesnt overthrow the regime before they figure out the obvious).

That's the problem though, we don't have a cheap way to shoot those things down. They have 10's of thousands of them and they cost essentially nothing to make, and everything we have to shoot them down costs millions and takes years to produce. Also, a presence along the coast? So you mean troops on the ground across the entire coast of Iran? Do you realize how much coast you are talking about here? There is over 900 miles of Iranian coastline from the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Oman. To put that into perspective they have about 100 miles more of coastline there than the state of California. You are not holding that and intercepting everything they try to shoot with some small force. Iran is a massive country. 4 times the size of Iraq, 2.5 times the size of Texas, roughly the same land area of France, Germany, Spain, and the UK. We don't have the planes to control the entirety of that sky 247 nor do we have the stomach to put in the number of troops needed to control that entire coastline to ensure ships can go through the strait. They also don't need to show the ability to hit every single ship that tries to cross to close it, they just have to show the ability to hit one and no one will insure them and the strait is closed. On the other hand we'd have to show we have the ability to 100% secure safe passage for all ships or they aren't going to risk it. The bar they have to clear to keep it closed is very low and very easy for them to do.

There are small islands all along the coast. You dont have to take and hold the whole coast to create the presence needed for drone interceptions. Secondly---and this is where I have a problem with Trump---the Ukrainians have a CHEAP drone interceptor solution for these Shahed-136 prop driven drones. We have a drone interceptor (The Coyote)----and its quite good--but it costs $100K a drone. Now thats WAAAY better than a missile---but it still loses the economic battle. The Ukrainians are building effective interceptor drones for couple thousand dollars or less. THATS what we need---and Trump rejecting their expertise in this area is just stupid.

See at the end you get into the real problem, and it's not an exclusive Trump problem. We could invest comparatively pennies in creating massive amounts of those cheap drone interceptors, but you can't do that and have hundreds of billions in grift and keep stock prices up for these parasite weapons manufacturers.