(02-11-2026 11:08 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 10:00 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 08:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  bill, answer my question. What exactly do you think MAGA is? Be specific.

Getting to it as soon as possible, BTF. I also hope to offer some things I felt Biden did well (though I need to have my HAZMAT suit ready to don related to the toxic hammering I will receive from some on the board).

My job is calling.

But quickly ...

... there are MAGA conservatives and then, like my sister and her husband, there are "conventional non-MAGA conservatives." Most MAGA conservatives, from what I understand, believe the election was stolen. They also tend to be (though there are many exceptions) evangelical Christians (who tend to want as much conservative Christianity in our public buildings, culture, etc., as possible). Lots of MAGA do not want abortion legal in any manner. And, of course, MAGA folks typically are very loyal to Don Trump.

Many conventional conservatives, in contrast, don't much care for Trump and are willing to criticize him (though just about all of them voted for Don T.). They don't feel the election was stolen and do contend the protestors were rioters, with many having committed crimes. They often favor a separation of church and state. Like my sister and her husband, they are very conservative with issues involving taxes, business, the military, police, etc. But they favor a woman's right to choose up to the first trimester.

So that's a quick overview comparing MAGA conservatives and non-MAGA conservatives.

bill, MAGA has nothing to do with politics.

prog filth leftists consider it that way though

MAGA (IMO) is a combination of political, cultural and singular-figure (DJT) movements. But I feel there is, in fact, a political element, BTF.

Now, I suppose you could look at MAGA in a more general sense and define if with a broad focus on the greatness of America.

Now that Trump is back in office, the slogan should be Keep American Great. To say Make American Great Again suggests it's not currently great. Not sure Don T. sees the irony there.

My single most significant complaint of many on the left might be the shame they feel for being citizens of the greatest country that has ever existed.

My father is an old-school Dem (blue dog). He served in the Air Force. Flies his American flag. He and I are hugely pro-military and pro-police. We don't care for Trump the man but do recognize the good work he has done (securing the Southern border, for example). My father and I are not part of the MAGA movement. But we love this country and feel it is better than any other on the planet. And he and I will not be bullied by guilt-tripped lefties who think otherwise.

(02-11-2026 11:13 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 06:08 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 04:29 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 04:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My sister and her husband voted for Don T. They are pleased with some things he's done — but displeased overall. They are not MAGA but conventional conservatives with lots of friends with similar views and who feel likewise about the Trump second term to date.

I don't care for Trump (though he has had some positive accomplishments) and didn't care for Biden (though he had had some positive accomplishments).

If the media covered Biden like they do Trump, Biden's approval rating would be 2%.

If the media covered Trump like they did Biden, Trump's approval rating would be 95%.

When ALL of what most people hear is fabricated/slanted garbage, what do you expect?

Most people are morons (see Tom).

My sister and her husband don't watch/read leftist media. I don't either and I lean left (but I don't trust CNN, MSN, etc.)

Tom is no moron. He is sharp. You can disagree with him. You can think he's a jerk/anus. But he is no dummy.

I respect your opinions, but did you actually say that Tom is "sharp"?

That dude is about as sharp as wet liver.

I feel Tom is sharp in that he uses the written work skillfully when he posts. I think he thoughtfully studies the issues and likely has a strong memory (based on what I've seen). These are characteristics of a reasonably smart person.

In short, I can strongly disagree with somebody about his politics and even think that he is an arrogant ass — yet still feel he is smart.

Two very different concepts.

(02-11-2026 11:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  MAGA (IMO) is a combination of political, cultural and singular-figure (DJT) movements. But I feel there is, in fact, a political element, BTF.

Make America Great Again. Period.

You people associate it with Trump which is why you hate it.

It has nothing to do with Trump.

(02-11-2026 12:05 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 11:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  MAGA (IMO) is a combination of political, cultural and singular-figure (DJT) movements. But I feel there is, in fact, a political element, BTF.

Make America Great Again. Period.

You people associate it with Trump which is why you hate it.

It has nothing to do with Trump.

That’s true.
Reagan actually used the phrase first.

(02-11-2026 12:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 11:13 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 06:08 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 04:29 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 04:21 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  My sister and her husband voted for Don T. They are pleased with some things he's done — but displeased overall. They are not MAGA but conventional conservatives with lots of friends with similar views and who feel likewise about the Trump second term to date.

I don't care for Trump (though he has had some positive accomplishments) and didn't care for Biden (though he had had some positive accomplishments).

If the media covered Biden like they do Trump, Biden's approval rating would be 2%.

If the media covered Trump like they did Biden, Trump's approval rating would be 95%.

When ALL of what most people hear is fabricated/slanted garbage, what do you expect?

Most people are morons (see Tom).

My sister and her husband don't watch/read leftist media. I don't either and I lean left (but I don't trust CNN, MSN, etc.)

Tom is no moron. He is sharp. You can disagree with him. You can think he's a jerk/anus. But he is no dummy.

I respect your opinions, but did you actually say that Tom is "sharp"?

That dude is about as sharp as wet liver.

I feel Tom is sharp in that he uses the written work skillfully when he posts. I think he thoughtfully studies the issues and likely has a strong memory (based on what I've seen). These are characteristics of a reasonably smart person.

In short, I can strongly disagree with somebody about his politics and even think that he is an arrogant ass — yet still feel he is smart.

Two very different concepts.

Yes. I'm aware those are different things. I just have never read a post of his and thought, "that's a pretty smart take" or "that guy is kinda sharp". Not once.

In his defense, there have been a few threads where he has added something of value. I recall one about fast-food where he did seem to know what he was talking about.

(02-11-2026 01:02 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 12:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 11:13 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 06:08 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 04:29 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  If the media covered Biden like they do Trump, Biden's approval rating would be 2%.

If the media covered Trump like they did Biden, Trump's approval rating would be 95%.

When ALL of what most people hear is fabricated/slanted garbage, what do you expect?

Most people are morons (see Tom).

My sister and her husband don't watch/read leftist media. I don't either and I lean left (but I don't trust CNN, MSN, etc.)

Tom is no moron. He is sharp. You can disagree with him. You can think he's a jerk/anus. But he is no dummy.

I respect your opinions, but did you actually say that Tom is "sharp"?

That dude is about as sharp as wet liver.

I feel Tom is sharp in that he uses the written work skillfully when he posts. I think he thoughtfully studies the issues and likely has a strong memory (based on what I've seen). These are characteristics of a reasonably smart person.

In short, I can strongly disagree with somebody about his politics and even think that he is an arrogant ass — yet still feel he is smart.

Two very different concepts.

Yes. I'm aware those are different things. I just have never read a post of his and thought, "that's a pretty smart take" or "that guy is kinda sharp". Not once.

In his defense, there have been a few threads where he has added something of value. I recall one about fast-food where he did seem to know what he was talking about.

I'd be curious to read the fast-food thing.

(02-11-2026 01:04 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 01:02 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  Yes. I'm aware those are different things. I just have never read a post of his and thought, "that's a pretty smart take" or "that guy is kinda sharp". Not once.

In his defense, there have been a few threads where he has added something of value. I recall one about fast-food where he did seem to know what he was talking about.

I'd be curious to read the fast-food thing.

Dude....

It doesn't matter what Trump's ratings are.

Unless he's impeached, and he will be again, and is forcibly removed, doubtful, he's not going anywhere.

A Gavin Newsom/AOC ticket will beat a JD Vance/Marco Rubio ticket easily in 2028.

People do not want 4 more years of Trump's legacy.

(02-11-2026 12:49 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 12:05 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 11:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  MAGA (IMO) is a combination of political, cultural and singular-figure (DJT) movements. But I feel there is, in fact, a political element, BTF.

Make America Great Again. Period.

You people associate it with Trump which is why you hate it.

It has nothing to do with Trump.

That’s true.
Reagan actually used the phrase first.

Reagan did, in fact, first use the phrase.

But didn't Trump trademark the phrase (maybe I'm wrong)?

https://www.stites.com/resources/trademarkology/6023/

And I'm puzzled as to why you do not think the MAGA movement has "nothing" to do with Trump. That's a head-scratcher, C-Jim.

From conservative columnist Douglas MacKinnon:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/why-maga...n-our-time


Before then, businessman Trump first rode down that escalator in Trump Tower on June 16, 2015. He had already asked and answered those questions. A multibillionaire who had created a worldwide business empire had seen enough. He became convinced that the entrenched establishment elites were destroying the nation he loved from within. Instead of shrinking into the shadows to enjoy his wealth and luxury, he burst upon the political scene with one overriding "revolutionary" message and mission. To "Make America Great Again."

And with that pronouncement, he created a movement of tens of millions of Americans who felt abandoned by the career politicians, the special interests and the elites. Men and women who were truly terrified of the future their children would inherit.

It must really suck to be so obsessed with one man.

(02-11-2026 11:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Now that Trump is back in office, the slogan should be Keep American Great. To say Make American Great Again suggests it's not currently great. Not sure Don T. sees the irony there.

Ironicalliy Bill, that was the plan.. If the 2 terms hadnt' been divided by .. Sorry I still believe there was fraud and covid...

That's what you would have seen for the 2nd term.

Quote:My father is an old-school Dem (blue dog). He served in the Air Force. Flies his American flag. He and I are hugely pro-military and pro-police. We don't care for Trump the man but do recognize the good work he has done (securing the Southern border, for example). My father and I are not part of the MAGA movement. But we love this country and feel it is better than any other on the planet. And he and I will not be bullied by guilt-tripped lefties who think otherwise.

Here's the thing Bill.. if this above is all true (and I want to believe it is), you are part of the MAGA movement. The REAL Maga movement that is not tied directly to Trump. (and it exists).

Trump is doing what MAGA-members want, it's not MAGA members are rooting for what Trump is doing, damn the consequences.

We want law and order,
we want secure borders,
We want SECURE elections,
we want fair trade,
we want the budget reduced (Okay, we still gotta work on this somehow),
we want the fraud GONE.
We want to quit carrying the world's security on our back, unless you absolutely need us to beyond a shadow of a doubt. (Iran, we're looking at you boys).
We want out of Green-movements where the US gets punished and told to cut back while other nations get to do whatever the F--- they want.
We want you to see how evil Islam and communism still are today.
We want kids to be kids and not social experiments.
we'd love to see pedo-pushers get punished (and not just sat on... so here's one where Trump could wake up).
we want inflation to never hit 9% EVER AGAIN.
we want American GDP growth to constantly be in the 2's (3's if possible. and 5's are WOWIE!)

Those are just some of the Tenets of MAGA supporters. With or without Trump around.

(02-11-2026 01:02 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  In short, I can strongly disagree with somebody about his politics and even think that he is an arrogant ass — yet still feel he is smart.

Two very different concepts.

Yes. I'm aware those are different things. I just have never read a post of his and thought, "that's a pretty smart take" or "that guy is kinda sharp". Not once.

In his defense, there have been a few threads where he has added something of value. I recall one about fast-food where he did seem to know what he was talking about.
[/quote]

Tom is one of those people, I feel, i could sit back and have a drink and a discussion with. and it wouldn't get into a shouting match despite the fact that we're pretty much on the opposite spectrum on pretty much EVERYTHING.

We'd probably never make each other move toward our respective side of the spectrum, but we wouldnt' be calling each other 4 letter words before the end.

(02-11-2026 03:39 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Tom is one of those people, I feel, i could sit back and have a drink and a discussion with. and it wouldn't get into a shouting match despite the fact that we're pretty much on the opposite spectrum on pretty much EVERYTHING.

We'd probably never make each other move toward our respective side of the spectrum, but we wouldnt' be calling each other 4 letter words before the end.

Not me, I'd probably spit on him.

(02-11-2026 03:39 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 01:02 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  In short, I can strongly disagree with somebody about his politics and even think that he is an arrogant ass — yet still feel he is smart.

Two very different concepts.

Yes. I'm aware those are different things. I just have never read a post of his and thought, "that's a pretty smart take" or "that guy is kinda sharp". Not once.

In his defense, there have been a few threads where he has added something of value. I recall one about fast-food where he did seem to know what he was talking about.

Tom is one of those people, I feel, i could sit back and have a drink and a discussion with. and it wouldn't get into a shouting match despite the fact that we're pretty much on the opposite spectrum on pretty much EVERYTHING.

We'd probably never make each other move toward our respective side of the spectrum, but we wouldnt' be calling each other 4 letter words before the end.
[/quote]

I personally don't see it, but I respect your opinion. I feel that way about Mensa. Definitely don't agree politically, but he comes across like he actually has some common sense and could hold a thoughtful conversation about something other than Cheeseburgers or Cats.

(02-11-2026 10:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 08:53 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 08:29 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 07:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 07:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

Maybe to you.

On a positive note, at least you didn't post: "Maybe to prog filth like you."

Nah you are worse. Prog filrh at least make a stand.

The lukewarm middle are worse.

The British arent really that bad, we were British once. Lets compromise. A little more taxes arent so bad .. why revolt? Benedict Arnold really had a hard choice, I get it .
-Bill Dazzle 1774

and I'm as center as they come ... however, pacifism is dysfunctional as it gets ... let's wait this one out ... if silent, then = 0; mon shere = 1 ... if not Billy Dee steps up to the plate with the catcher giving him the pitch that's coming ... then 1 vs. 0 becomes his...

Billy Dee is how I refer to myself when I'm "delivering frontier justice" to the ladies (and I think you know what I mean, my good man).

lol ... Billy Dee Dubya easily got more than the fair share of wang dang and muh sweet poontang ... that ol' boy was "smooth"...

regardless, the masses are still waiting for a bidet* positive accomplishment...

can't dodge this 'draft', mi amigo ...

Billy Dee …..

(02-11-2026 04:15 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 10:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 08:53 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 08:29 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-10-2026 07:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  On a positive note, at least you didn't post: "Maybe to prog filth like you."

Nah you are worse. Prog filrh at least make a stand.

The lukewarm middle are worse.

The British arent really that bad, we were British once. Lets compromise. A little more taxes arent so bad .. why revolt? Benedict Arnold really had a hard choice, I get it .
-Bill Dazzle 1774

and I'm as center as they come ... however, pacifism is dysfunctional as it gets ... let's wait this one out ... if silent, then = 0; mon shere = 1 ... if not Billy Dee steps up to the plate with the catcher giving him the pitch that's coming ... then 1 vs. 0 becomes his...

Billy Dee is how I refer to myself when I'm "delivering frontier justice" to the ladies (and I think you know what I mean, my good man).

lol ... Billy Dee Dubya easily got more than the fair share of wang dang and muh sweet poontang ... that ol' boy was "smooth"...

regardless, the masses are still waiting for a bidet* positive accomplishment...

can't dodge this 'draft', mi amigo ...

I'm hoping to get a list of Uncle Joe's positives asap (work has been a bit stressful today).

(02-11-2026 04:20 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Billy Dee …..

Old Bill Dazzle drank a good bit of malt liquor from about 1978 to 1984.

(02-11-2026 05:17 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 04:20 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Billy Dee …..

Old Bill Dazzle drank a good bit of malt liquor from about 1978 to 1984.

Billy D and a 6 pack of Colt 45 Malt Liquor.
Ladies didn’t stand a chance.

(02-11-2026 03:35 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2026 11:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Now that Trump is back in office, the slogan should be Keep American Great. To say Make American Great Again suggests it's not currently great. Not sure Don T. sees the irony there.

Ironicalliy Bill, that was the plan.. If the 2 terms hadnt' been divided by .. Sorry I still believe there was fraud and covid...

That's what you would have seen for the 2nd term.

Quote:My father is an old-school Dem (blue dog). He served in the Air Force. Flies his American flag. He and I are hugely pro-military and pro-police. We don't care for Trump the man but do recognize the good work he has done (securing the Southern border, for example). My father and I are not part of the MAGA movement. But we love this country and feel it is better than any other on the planet. And he and I will not be bullied by guilt-tripped lefties who think otherwise.

Here's the thing Bill.. if this above is all true (and I want to believe it is), you are part of the MAGA movement. The REAL Maga movement that is not tied directly to Trump. (and it exists).

Trump is doing what MAGA-members want, it's not MAGA members are rooting for what Trump is doing, damn the consequences.

We want law and order,
we want secure borders,
We want SECURE elections,
we want fair trade,
we want the budget reduced (Okay, we still gotta work on this somehow),
we want the fraud GONE.
We want to quit carrying the world's security on our back, unless you absolutely need us to beyond a shadow of a doubt. (Iran, we're looking at you boys).
We want out of Green-movements where the US gets punished and told to cut back while other nations get to do whatever the F--- they want.
We want you to see how evil Islam and communism still are today.
We want kids to be kids and not social experiments.
we'd love to see pedo-pushers get punished (and not just sat on... so here's one where Trump could wake up).
we want inflation to never hit 9% EVER AGAIN.
we want American GDP growth to constantly be in the 2's (3's if possible. and 5's are WOWIE!)

Those are just some of the Tenets of MAGA supporters. With or without Trump around.

I am part of a movement that is not political, DaSaintFan. It's not left, center or right.

It's called the "America is the greatest country that ever existed and I'm not going to apologize for that — but I am humbled to be a citizen and will not trash other countries" movement. Not sure what our numbers are but it needs to be all 340 million of us.