(01-06-2026 12:22 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Trucking shutdown.....annnny day now.

Your mom should have swallowed.

(01-06-2026 12:14 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And do you have even the slightest confidence that someone like trump, drunk pete, and 'lil Marco are going to be able to pull it off?

Much more so than this murderer's row of "leaders".

Ah yes, whatabout. Nice flex.

(01-06-2026 12:23 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:11 PM)TripleA Wrote:  She released them several hours later, right after Trump said something to her.

Want to rethink that now?

This isn't going to be easy. Trump's choices were leave the idiot Commie in charge temporarily, or let the country go leaderless until they can calm things down and have an election.

That sounds more like little to no short term plan then.

Good grief.

I can only imagine what would have happened if Biden removed a head of state for the reasons stated by Trump but left the VP who wasn't even on the ballot in charge...

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:11 PM)TripleA Wrote:  She released them several hours later, right after Trump said something to her.

Want to rethink that now?

This isn't going to be easy. Trump's choices were leave the idiot Commie in charge temporarily, or let the country go leaderless until they can calm things down and have an election.

That sounds more like little to no short term plan then.

Read Post #614 above. There's your short term plan.

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:02 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  This is confusing. The protestors are saying this is about oil but Tom says no. The Biden administration launched a CIA operation on Maduro regarding narco-terrorism and placed a 25 million dollar bounty on his capture:

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/op...-biden.htm

"The most concrete evidence of U.S. intelligence activities during the Biden era emerged in February 2024 when the Associated Press obtained a secret DEA memo detailing Operation Money Badger, a covert program that deployed undercover operatives into Venezuela to build drug-trafficking cases against Maduro and his inner circle. The 2018 memo, which predated Biden's presidency but continued into his term, acknowledged that the operation was conducted unilaterally without notifying Venezuelan officials and was arguably a violation of international law. While the memo originated during the Trump administration, reporting indicates the operation may have continued in some form during Biden's tenure, though the administration shifted focus toward diplomatic engagement and brought fewer new prosecutions of Maduro insiders compared to the previous administration."

but they were not a threat according to Tom.

Personally I'm not thrilled about us doing this although the operation was about as well executed as anyone could hope. Especially in light of previous operations aka Afghanistan and shows that we actually have people in charge who are competent. If it keeps China and Russia out of our hemisphere then it certainly is in our best interest.

Not sure what you're confused about, but I said this was about oil...just as trump keeps on saying.

They're just using the drug angle to justify removing him. Yes, they supply drugs to the world which is bad. But not Fentanyl, the stuff that leads to the most deaths of those afflicted with Substance Use Disorder. And in case you're not familiar, SUD is a disease that is not curable.

Good. So you agree then that keeping China and Russia from accessing that oil is a good thing for us. Given the actions of previous administrations they also must have felt Maduro was a threat as well.

How are we going to stop China or Russia from accessing it? You want to commit a military force to that? I thought we were broke?

And if China or Russia wanted to access that oil, wouldn't they have done it years ago? Keep in mind the costs needed to attempt to access these "massive" reserves their dictator claims is there would be extensive. I'd almost be tempted to let them waste their money on trying to get it. And it's highly doubtful any US companies want to spend the billions to attempt to get any oil as that would directly undercut their billions already invested in Canada that's already producing.

And yes, again, Maduro was a bad guy who was likely a big player in the global drug trade...so of course the Biden administration was probably trying to find crimes they could use to get him out of office.

(01-06-2026 12:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:02 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  This is confusing. The protestors are saying this is about oil but Tom says no. The Biden administration launched a CIA operation on Maduro regarding narco-terrorism and placed a 25 million dollar bounty on his capture:

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/op...-biden.htm

"The most concrete evidence of U.S. intelligence activities during the Biden era emerged in February 2024 when the Associated Press obtained a secret DEA memo detailing Operation Money Badger, a covert program that deployed undercover operatives into Venezuela to build drug-trafficking cases against Maduro and his inner circle. The 2018 memo, which predated Biden's presidency but continued into his term, acknowledged that the operation was conducted unilaterally without notifying Venezuelan officials and was arguably a violation of international law. While the memo originated during the Trump administration, reporting indicates the operation may have continued in some form during Biden's tenure, though the administration shifted focus toward diplomatic engagement and brought fewer new prosecutions of Maduro insiders compared to the previous administration."

but they were not a threat according to Tom.

Personally I'm not thrilled about us doing this although the operation was about as well executed as anyone could hope. Especially in light of previous operations aka Afghanistan and shows that we actually have people in charge who are competent. If it keeps China and Russia out of our hemisphere then it certainly is in our best interest.

Not sure what you're confused about, but I said this was about oil...just as trump keeps on saying.

They're just using the drug angle to justify removing him. Yes, they supply drugs to the world which is bad. But not Fentanyl, the stuff that leads to the most deaths of those afflicted with Substance Use Disorder. And in case you're not familiar, SUD is a disease that is not curable.

Good. So you agree then that keeping China and Russia from accessing that oil is a good thing for us. Given the actions of previous administrations they also must have felt Maduro was a threat as well.

How are we going to stop China or Russia from accessing it? You want to commit a military force to that? I thought we were broke?

And if China or Russia wanted to access that oil, wouldn't they have done it years ago? Keep in mind the costs needed to attempt to access these "massive" reserves their dictator claims is there would be extensive. I'd almost be tempted to let them waste their money on trying to get it. And it's highly doubtful any US companies want to spend the billions to attempt to get any oil as that would directly undercut their billions already invested in Canada that's already producing.

And yes, again, Maduro was a bad guy who was likely a big player in the global drug trade...so of course the Biden administration was probably trying to find crimes they could use to get him out of office.

Maduro was indicted in 2020. Before Biden took office. That indictment was used in his arrest this weekend.

If this is "all about the oil" then why are millions of Venezuelans across the planet celebrating the removal of a dictator?

(01-06-2026 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  If this is "all about the oil" then why are millions of Venezuelans across the planet celebrating the removal of a dictator?

Go look up "not mutually exclusive."

(01-06-2026 07:55 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  https://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/...rcna252434

As expected Trump already saying taxpayers will pay for oil infrastructure improvements in Venezuela. It’s Halliburton all over again. Socialize the costs, privatize the profits!

More opportunities for graft and looting by the most corrupt administration of all time.
Also heard Trump proclaimed the cult will love him no matter what he does:

“MAGA loves me. I am maga. MAGA loves everything I do”

Because US citizens will reap a benefit of lower energy prices. Its odd how liberals are whining about the "potential" use of taxpayer money to speed up getting oil production back on line-----yet these same lefties had NO issue with billions of taxpayer dollars going for questionable "green" projects and energy start ups (many of these enterprises went bust or never came to fruition---like the California bullet train) as well as completely subsidizing the entire EV industry to the tune of 7K per unit sold. Heck---virtually the entire EV industry is collapsing in the US without subsidies and draconian government mandates requiring their adoption.

Quote:Senator John Fetterman just TORCHED his own party for refusing to acknowledge the success of President Trump’s Maduro raid.

And he did it by pointing out facts Democrats really don’t want to talk about, calling out Schumer and Biden directly.

FETTERMAN: “I don’t know why we can’t just acknowledge that it’s been a good thing, what’s happened.”

“I mean, I mean, I’ve seen the speeches from, whether it’s leader Schumer or kinds of past tweets from president Biden, we all wanted this man gone and now he is gone.”

“I think we should really appreciate exactly what happened here.”

Then came the part that shattered the narrative.

“Now, remember, we all, Democrats, years ago, wanted to eliminate him, and why have a bounty of $25 million if we didn’t want him gone?”

“Why would you do these things if you weren’t willing to actually do something other than harsh language?”

Fetterman closed by reminding viewers what Maduro actually did:

“Let’s remember, eight million Venezuelans were displaced and mass chaos, and now they were shipping drugs to our nation as well, too.”

“So, for me, it’s like, why, as a Democrat, we can’t just acknowledge that it was successful?”

(01-06-2026 12:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Because US citizens will reap a benefit of lower energy prices. Its odd how liberals are whining about the "potential" use of taxpayer money to speed up getting oil production back on line-----ye they had NO issue with billions of taxpayer dollars going for questionable "green" energy producers (many of these enterprises went bust) as well as completely subsidizing the entire EV industry to the tune of 7K per unit sold. Heck---virtually the entire EV industry is collapsing in the US without subsidies and draconian government mandates requiring their adoption.

The inconsistent whining swings both ways...

(01-06-2026 12:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:02 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  This is confusing. The protestors are saying this is about oil but Tom says no. The Biden administration launched a CIA operation on Maduro regarding narco-terrorism and placed a 25 million dollar bounty on his capture:

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/op...-biden.htm

"The most concrete evidence of U.S. intelligence activities during the Biden era emerged in February 2024 when the Associated Press obtained a secret DEA memo detailing Operation Money Badger, a covert program that deployed undercover operatives into Venezuela to build drug-trafficking cases against Maduro and his inner circle. The 2018 memo, which predated Biden's presidency but continued into his term, acknowledged that the operation was conducted unilaterally without notifying Venezuelan officials and was arguably a violation of international law. While the memo originated during the Trump administration, reporting indicates the operation may have continued in some form during Biden's tenure, though the administration shifted focus toward diplomatic engagement and brought fewer new prosecutions of Maduro insiders compared to the previous administration."

but they were not a threat according to Tom.

Personally I'm not thrilled about us doing this although the operation was about as well executed as anyone could hope. Especially in light of previous operations aka Afghanistan and shows that we actually have people in charge who are competent. If it keeps China and Russia out of our hemisphere then it certainly is in our best interest.

Not sure what you're confused about, but I said this was about oil...just as trump keeps on saying.

They're just using the drug angle to justify removing him. Yes, they supply drugs to the world which is bad. But not Fentanyl, the stuff that leads to the most deaths of those afflicted with Substance Use Disorder. And in case you're not familiar, SUD is a disease that is not curable.

Good. So you agree then that keeping China and Russia from accessing that oil is a good thing for us. Given the actions of previous administrations they also must have felt Maduro was a threat as well.

How are we going to stop China or Russia from accessing it? You want to commit a military force to that? I thought we were broke?

And if China or Russia wanted to access that oil, wouldn't they have done it years ago? Keep in mind the costs needed to attempt to access these "massive" reserves their dictator claims is there would be extensive. I'd almost be tempted to let them waste their money on trying to get it. And it's highly doubtful any US companies want to spend the billions to attempt to get any oil as that would directly undercut their billions already invested in Canada that's already producing.

And yes, again, Maduro was a bad guy who was likely a big player in the global drug trade...so of course the Biden administration was probably trying to find crimes they could use to get him out of office.

USGS estimates ~380-650 billion barrels of oil technically recoverable (not economically recoverable) not all of their sources were Venezuelan either. Remember us companies spent decades operating in Venezuela they will have concrete estimates by their own engineers.


You guys are also forgetting this isn’t just about oil. Trump has other concerns

(01-06-2026 12:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 07:55 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  https://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/...rcna252434

As expected Trump already saying taxpayers will pay for oil infrastructure improvements in Venezuela. It’s Halliburton all over again. Socialize the costs, privatize the profits!

More opportunities for graft and looting by the most corrupt administration of all time.
Also heard Trump proclaimed the cult will love him no matter what he does:

“MAGA loves me. I am maga. MAGA loves everything I do”

Because US citizens will reap a benefit of lower energy prices. Its odd how liberals are whining about the "potential" use of taxpayer money to speed up getting oil production back on line-----yet these same lefties had NO issue with billions of taxpayer dollars going for questionable "green" projects and energy start ups (many of these enterprises went bust or never came to fruition---like the California bullet train) as well as completely subsidizing the entire EV industry to the tune of 7K per unit sold. Heck---virtually the entire EV industry is collapsing in the US without subsidies and draconian government mandates requiring their adoption.

Prog filth continue to be easier to just ignore

(01-06-2026 10:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Since we know now this is ONLY about the oil, I'll leave this right here. For when someone claims VZ has the highest crude oil reserves of any country on Earth.

https://x.com/RARohde/status/2007738396639465774

And before you ask, yes, Maduro took power in April of 2013. What a "shocking" coincidence.

Any idea as to other things that happened around or since that time with respect to advances and developments in oil extraction? FYI--There was a time when the Permian Basin was considered tapped out.

(01-06-2026 10:48 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 10:44 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(01-05-2026 12:06 PM)mlb Wrote:  Late to the game here, but I have no issues with removing that despicable man. I do, however, worry that we've just created a power vacuum in that country that will allow another tyrant to take over. The VP is illegimate but now in power, but who has their claws into her?

So in your wise thinking you would still have Maduro as prexy as long as the status quo remained? It seems to me that your idea is to just let the Venezuelans suffer more so that there aren't any more Maduros.

As for the present president Delcy she will remain UNTIL her replacement is elected or sworn in because there was already an election and Maduro lost thus making his next in line null and void. ALL the people who were in their positions should be fired in the coming months, not immediately, just let them think they're secure in their jobs and when an alternative is positioned then that person can fire him because at that point the new guy/gal will hold the reins of the people under him/her, but not until then. The military for instance will hold allegiance to the new leader and not before he/she is installed. It's a delicate procedure and has to be thought of well.

There are countries all over the world where their citizens suffer. Are you now advocating for the US to play global policeman for them all?

Or just the ones close to us...who may have some oil or other resources we can pilfer along the way?

To the extent that US foreign policy results in real costs to the US taxpayer, are you suggesting that the US leadership has no fiduciary responsibility to its citizens to prioritize foreign aid to the peoples of other nations where it might benefit US citizens the most?

Keep in mind not all crude oil is the same.

From AI confirming my earlier understanding…

“Not all crude oil is the same, and Venezuela's oil is a prime example: it's heavy, dense, and sulfur-rich (sour), unlike lighter U.S. shale oil, making it difficult and expensive to process, requiring specialized refineries, but valuable for products like diesel and asphalt, with Gulf Coast refineries uniquely built for it. While Venezuela holds vast reserves, its heavy crude needs special handling, blending, or upgraders, and production has suffered from underinvestment, corruption, and sanctions, making it harder to extract and refine compared to lighter crudes. “

Key Differences in Venezuelan Crude:
Heavy & Viscous: It's thick like molasses, contrasting with lighter crudes that flow easily, as noted in this Yahoo Finance article.

High Sulfur (Sour): Contains high sulfur and metals, requiring more complex refining to meet environmental standards, says a Grist article.

Specialized Refining: Few refineries can process it efficiently; U.S. Gulf Coast facilities were designed for this type of heavy crude.

Why It Matters:
Production Challenges: Heavy crude requires more energy, diluents, and advanced tech to extract and transport.
Refinery Compatibility: Some U.S. refineries prefer it, while others struggle, making it a complex market, explains a Grist article.

Market Dynamics: Its unique properties make it less universally desirable than light sweet crude, affecting its price and demand, according to this Yahoo Finance article.

In essence, Venezuela's massive reserves are not "plug-and-play" oil; they are a specific, challenging type that requires tailored infrastructure and processes,

(01-06-2026 12:48 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:02 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  This is confusing. The protestors are saying this is about oil but Tom says no. The Biden administration launched a CIA operation on Maduro regarding narco-terrorism and placed a 25 million dollar bounty on his capture:

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/op...-biden.htm

"The most concrete evidence of U.S. intelligence activities during the Biden era emerged in February 2024 when the Associated Press obtained a secret DEA memo detailing Operation Money Badger, a covert program that deployed undercover operatives into Venezuela to build drug-trafficking cases against Maduro and his inner circle. The 2018 memo, which predated Biden's presidency but continued into his term, acknowledged that the operation was conducted unilaterally without notifying Venezuelan officials and was arguably a violation of international law. While the memo originated during the Trump administration, reporting indicates the operation may have continued in some form during Biden's tenure, though the administration shifted focus toward diplomatic engagement and brought fewer new prosecutions of Maduro insiders compared to the previous administration."

but they were not a threat according to Tom.

Personally I'm not thrilled about us doing this although the operation was about as well executed as anyone could hope. Especially in light of previous operations aka Afghanistan and shows that we actually have people in charge who are competent. If it keeps China and Russia out of our hemisphere then it certainly is in our best interest.

Not sure what you're confused about, but I said this was about oil...just as trump keeps on saying.

They're just using the drug angle to justify removing him. Yes, they supply drugs to the world which is bad. But not Fentanyl, the stuff that leads to the most deaths of those afflicted with Substance Use Disorder. And in case you're not familiar, SUD is a disease that is not curable.

Good. So you agree then that keeping China and Russia from accessing that oil is a good thing for us. Given the actions of previous administrations they also must have felt Maduro was a threat as well.

How are we going to stop China or Russia from accessing it? You want to commit a military force to that? I thought we were broke?

And if China or Russia wanted to access that oil, wouldn't they have done it years ago? Keep in mind the costs needed to attempt to access these "massive" reserves their dictator claims is there would be extensive. I'd almost be tempted to let them waste their money on trying to get it. And it's highly doubtful any US companies want to spend the billions to attempt to get any oil as that would directly undercut their billions already invested in Canada that's already producing.

And yes, again, Maduro was a bad guy who was likely a big player in the global drug trade...so of course the Biden administration was probably trying to find crimes they could use to get him out of office.

USGS estimates ~380-650 billion barrels of oil technically recoverable (not economically recoverable) not all of their sources were Venezuelan either. Remember us companies spent decades operating in Venezuela they will have concrete estimates by their own engineers.


You guys are also forgetting this isn’t just about oil. Trump has other concerns

Quiet piggy

Thats all you got?

(01-06-2026 12:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(01-06-2026 12:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Because US citizens will reap a benefit of lower energy prices. Its odd how liberals are whining about the "potential" use of taxpayer money to speed up getting oil production back on line-----ye they had NO issue with billions of taxpayer dollars going for questionable "green" energy producers (many of these enterprises went bust) as well as completely subsidizing the entire EV industry to the tune of 7K per unit sold. Heck---virtually the entire EV industry is collapsing in the US without subsidies and draconian government mandates requiring their adoption.

The inconsistent whining swings both ways...

In this case, we would be investing in a resource that we know works and will be needed. Getting this oil back on line quickly might take an infusion in cash, but we know it will help keep energy prices more reasonable and it would increase the ability of the US to stay energy independent. It also aids in driving down the price of oil---which is helpful for those concerned with Russia's ability to fund expansionist activities. Its not a bad investment for the US---certainly better than paying 15 billion for a California bullet train that is so far behind schedule and over budget that it likely will never exist.

(01-06-2026 01:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  In this case, we would be investing in a resource that we know works and will be needed. Getting this oil back on line quickly might take an infusion in cash, but we know it will help keep energy prices more reasonable and it would increase the ability of the US to stay energy independent. It also aids in driving down the price of oil---which is helpful for those concerned with Russia's ability to fund expansionist activities.

Your argument is the same as the people who want to go green... get onto renewable energy that is self sustaining thus no need to count on adversaries for fossil fuels to take care of our energy needs while saving the environment. Both sides are completely inconsistent on the stuff.

Instead let's just say "orange man bad" or "prog filth" and do away with the BS excuses.