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Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
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Post: #161
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 06:40 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I think 14 bids to the Big Dance is enough of a cultural fit for Carolina. We’ll see if it was a one off or the way of the future.

That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?
10-30-2025 07:17 AM
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Post: #162
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  Every expansion has an upside or they wouldn't have been made, but we have come to the fork in the road where any expansion may carry downside as well.
The SEC has been so smart and consistent about their choices, but any further expansion no carry risks.

Of the four schools oft mentioned (FSU, Clemson, Carolina and UVa) for SEC expansion, each pair carries risk.

Florida State and Clemson would fit like a glove into SEC culture, but these are the two schools the SEC needs the least.
The SEC already owns the markets, or at least a good share where those schools are located. Adding FSU and Clemson only mean increased competition for resources for very little increase in revenue.
Carolina and Virginia on the other hand are total opposites. Neither are cultural fits for the SEC, but the potential market means that the pair could offer a financial boon to the conference. The downside is that the uneasy fit could create friction within the conference which is something the sec does not experience now.

the other overriding negative is that taking all four weakens the asset value of the acc and reduces the profitability of espn.

a real quandary.

not really.

you set up self-described strawmen, assign subjective values, and then proceed to dismiss them.

for example, "market". you seem to be calling market by the state a school is in. the thing is, a market is who is buying the product, not who is selling it. so, for example, fsu's "market" is media companies. and the market for media companies is nationwide-anywhere they have distribution. now the "presumption" is the product will be consumed more in their home metropolitan area and state, but it's not necessarily limited to or by that. and even if it were, Florida is a large state with several demographic regions.

and that's just "market"

Your last sentence is full of presumed values arbitrarily set by you.

To start with, with -perhaps- the exception of the unique case of Notre Dame, the ACC could lose any 3 schools and still have a media deal until 2036.

While I understand that fans like to think in simple binary fashion - "they won the game"/"they lost the game"; "they're a good school"/"they're a bad school"; "they're additive"/"they're a drain on resources" - in reality, that's not how a media company works.

In general, they pay conferences not individual schools. So it's simply a question of whether a conference can provide matchups that generate eyeballs (which make money in several ways, not just ad dollars. Transmission fees and gaining and keeping subscriptions are examples of a few others), which translates into a return on the media partner's investment.

Which means the value of the product is its marketed brand acceptance. On the field results can help marketing, but they really are a small part of it.

People like to make fun of the big10 trophies, but they are marketing tools - and in general, have been pretty effective.

So I know everyone wants to think their school is awesomely irreplaceable, but every school - even Notre Dame - can be replaced.

Now, sometimes it's not a 1:1 replacement. Either because the brand value needs to be accounted for, or (more commonly) the media partner would like more schools' matchups to select from for a particular platform and/or time slot. The "lose 2, add 4" that we've seen in the past. Well conferences are bigger than 8-12 members these days, so selection options would seem to be less of a concern.

The ACC only needs 15 schools for their current deal, so by adding Stanford, Cal, and SMU, they can lose 3 and not even need to backfill.

Now, the real question is whether FSU, Clemson, North Carolina, and/or Virginia bring any sort of values to the SEC. Of course marketable sports brand is one value - one that is usually talked about around here. Football in particular. But there are many other synergistic values which a school brings to a conference, and sports value isn't necessarily the most important. Think of it this way, internally conferences interact with each other as individual schools. But the media partner is licensing a stable of horses, not individuals. So individual sports brand value is less important. It's about averages over a season and over the several seasons of the media deal.

And even this description is far incomplete compared to the statistical models made and used by the parties in question.

Anyway, so much for subjective determinations and preconceived notions.

At the end of the day, we're more in the dark than the light about these things.

But we do get clues sometimes. For example, were the lawsuits of FSU and Clemson merely Hail Mary plays done in the dark with no hope of payoff? Rather unlikely.

And we repeatedly hear that Fox wants the big10 into the state of Florida. And that the University of North Carolina may want to move and could be a target, and that they may be bringing a friend. And also that the SEC may want to expand into the the states of North Carolina and Virginia. And here we are.

So yes, I think that when the exit cost is nearer to 75M, FSU, Clemson, NC, and VA will be joining the SEC. Will there be others? Who knows.

But if the SEC adds those, then the Big10 adds Miami and Duke, and Georgia Tech could be on the menu as well. Will they add others? Maybe. There's apparently been grumbling about the need to shore up their western flank for scheduling reasons. So we'll see.

Can the ACC "survive" losing 6 schools? Sure, easily. The PAC torched itself apparently due to (among other things), internal squabbling, too high expectations during market turmoil, talk of unequal revenue sharing, no exit fees, and so on. It's VERY unlikely we'll see that with the ACC. If anything, the most disruptive schools are among the 6 that are presumably leaving.

As for backfill, they only "need" 3. And most lists include USF, UConn, and Tulane. I also think Colorado could be on the menu as well.

So no, the only quandry is guessing if certain schools will actually pay the 75M to leave. We just saw a coach buyout of 39M - So who knows...
10-30-2025 07:59 AM
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Post: #163
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  Every expansion has an upside or they wouldn't have been made, but we have come to the fork in the road where any expansion may carry downside as well.
The SEC has been so smart and consistent about their choices, but any further expansion no carry risks.

Of the four schools oft mentioned (FSU, Clemson, Carolina and UVa) for SEC expansion, each pair carries risk.

Florida State and Clemson would fit like a glove into SEC culture, but these are the two schools the SEC needs the least.
The SEC already owns the markets, or at least a good share where those schools are located. Adding FSU and Clemson only mean increased competition for resources for very little increase in revenue.
Carolina and Virginia on the other hand are total opposites. Neither are cultural fits for the SEC, but the potential market means that the pair could offer a financial boon to the conference. The downside is that the uneasy fit could create friction within the conference which is something the SEC does not experience now.

The other overriding negative is that taking all four weakens the asset value of the ACC and reduces the profitability of ESPN.

A real quandary.

Missouri and Oklahoma don’t fit the SEC culture but here we are.

UNC and Virginia get the SEC into new markets and new states. Florida State does get them a bigger share of one of the biggest states but it is still duplicating what they already have. Clemson does nothing to expand the footprint or market share. A bigger name than South Carolina but still in a small state with no major cities.

North Carolina and Virginia are in bigger markets that are growing. It gets the league into the DC area. Neither are football blue bloods but are at least usually decent. Improves the basketball status by adding a true blue blood and another with a good history and fairly recent championship.

The times have changed. Markets are valuable, but national brands are more more valuable. But now even national brands, which had become the most important valuation variable the last few months, has now been supplanted as the top value addition criteria, imo.

As of now and moving forward, there is nothing more valuable in college sports than a football program that can produce a quality playoff caliber football product at least every few years and a competitive team against the best competition most years. Nothing.

Because what we are now seeing with viewership numbers the most important variable for a school's valuation is are they competitive against top competition. We might not be that far away from viewership numbers where a .500 record school that keeps losing close games generating almost as much interest when playing an .800 record school as a matchup of two .800 schools if everyone realizes the .500 record school has a very good chance of winning. Or if not winning, at least almost beating the .800 record school and thereby disrupting the apple cart for several teams inside and outside the SEC.

While it has been said any team can beat any other on any given Saturday, in the SEC it has become a weekly occurrence for every team. That means almost every game is as important as any other, and this will cause a massive valuation surge for the SEC.

And not just for the SEC. For example, if Cig keeps getting Indiana into the playoffs, how much more valuable is Michigan or Penn St over Indiana? When does Indiana become more valuable if either school misses the playoffs a few years in a row? Think about it for a bit before you default to the old world view of college football perception. The shear massive valuations for present quality football product and meaningful games dwarfs pasts considerations like tradition and the size of a team's fanbase. What matters now is not how many of your fans will watch your game but how many across the nation will. Brands garner more viewers, but elite football games garner more. Again, look at Indiana.

The college football world is changing fast. The new valuation analysis is:

Winning football programs > National Brands > Markets.

Whule all theee are important, we may find out in a few years that they have become the same thing.
10-30-2025 08:01 AM
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Post: #164
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:01 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  Every expansion has an upside or they wouldn't have been made, but we have come to the fork in the road where any expansion may carry downside as well.
The SEC has been so smart and consistent about their choices, but any further expansion no carry risks.

Of the four schools oft mentioned (FSU, Clemson, Carolina and UVa) for SEC expansion, each pair carries risk.

Florida State and Clemson would fit like a glove into SEC culture, but these are the two schools the SEC needs the least.
The SEC already owns the markets, or at least a good share where those schools are located. Adding FSU and Clemson only mean increased competition for resources for very little increase in revenue.
Carolina and Virginia on the other hand are total opposites. Neither are cultural fits for the SEC, but the potential market means that the pair could offer a financial boon to the conference. The downside is that the uneasy fit could create friction within the conference which is something the SEC does not experience now.

The other overriding negative is that taking all four weakens the asset value of the ACC and reduces the profitability of ESPN.

A real quandary.

Missouri and Oklahoma don’t fit the SEC culture but here we are.

UNC and Virginia get the SEC into new markets and new states. Florida State does get them a bigger share of one of the biggest states but it is still duplicating what they already have. Clemson does nothing to expand the footprint or market share. A bigger name than South Carolina but still in a small state with no major cities.

North Carolina and Virginia are in bigger markets that are growing. It gets the league into the DC area. Neither are football blue bloods but are at least usually decent. Improves the basketball status by adding a true blue blood and another with a good history and fairly recent championship.

The times have changed. Markets are valuable, but national brands are more more valuable. But now even national brands, which had become the most important valuation variable the last few months, has now been supplanted as the top value addition criteria, imo.

As of now and moving forward, there is nothing more valuable in college sports than a football program that can produce a quality playoff caliber football product at least every few years and a competitive team against the best competition most years. Nothing.

Because what we are now seeing with viewership numbers the most important variable for a school's valuation is are they competitive against top competition. We might not be that far away from viewership numbers where a .500 record school that keeps losing close games generating almost as much interest when playing an .800 record school as a matchup of two .800 schools if everyone realizes the .500 record school has a very good chance of winning. Or if not winning, at least almost beating the .800 record school and thereby disrupting the apple cart for several teams inside and outside the SEC.

While it has been said any team can beat any other on any given Saturday, in the SEC it has become a weekly occurrence for every team. That means almost every game is as important as any other, and this will cause a massive valuation surge for the SEC.

And not just for the SEC. For example, if Cig keeps getting Indiana into the playoffs, how much more valuable is Michigan or Penn St over Indiana? When does Indiana become more valuable if either school misses the playoffs a few years in a row? Think about it for a bit before you default to the old world view of college football perception. The shear massive valuations for present quality football product and meaningful games dwarfs pasts considerations like tradition and the size of a team's fanbase. What matters now is not how many of your fans will watch your game but how many across the nation will. Brands garner more viewers, but elite football games garner more. Again, look at Indiana.

The college football world is changing fast. The new valuation analysis is:

Winning football programs > National Brands > Markets.

Whule all theee are important, we may find out in a few years that they have become the same thing.

Don't forget that media partners pay for basketball too. Even though the lion's share of the basketball playoffs may go to the ncaa, the media partners will want a good stable of schools to select matchups from.

And there are other concerns too, though sports fans tend to be less interested in things like institutional fit, or partnering up for non-sports-related projects. And in general, sports helps schools market themselves, which is potentially worth far more than most media deals.
10-30-2025 08:13 AM
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RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 07:17 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 06:40 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I think 14 bids to the Big Dance is enough of a cultural fit for Carolina. We’ll see if it was a one off or the way of the future.

That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?

Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2025 08:21 AM by bryanw1995.)
10-30-2025 08:19 AM
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Post: #166
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:13 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:01 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  Every expansion has an upside or they wouldn't have been made, but we have come to the fork in the road where any expansion may carry downside as well.
The SEC has been so smart and consistent about their choices, but any further expansion no carry risks.

Of the four schools oft mentioned (FSU, Clemson, Carolina and UVa) for SEC expansion, each pair carries risk.

Florida State and Clemson would fit like a glove into SEC culture, but these are the two schools the SEC needs the least.
The SEC already owns the markets, or at least a good share where those schools are located. Adding FSU and Clemson only mean increased competition for resources for very little increase in revenue.
Carolina and Virginia on the other hand are total opposites. Neither are cultural fits for the SEC, but the potential market means that the pair could offer a financial boon to the conference. The downside is that the uneasy fit could create friction within the conference which is something the SEC does not experience now.

The other overriding negative is that taking all four weakens the asset value of the ACC and reduces the profitability of ESPN.

A real quandary.

Missouri and Oklahoma don’t fit the SEC culture but here we are.

UNC and Virginia get the SEC into new markets and new states. Florida State does get them a bigger share of one of the biggest states but it is still duplicating what they already have. Clemson does nothing to expand the footprint or market share. A bigger name than South Carolina but still in a small state with no major cities.

North Carolina and Virginia are in bigger markets that are growing. It gets the league into the DC area. Neither are football blue bloods but are at least usually decent. Improves the basketball status by adding a true blue blood and another with a good history and fairly recent championship.

The times have changed. Markets are valuable, but national brands are more more valuable. But now even national brands, which had become the most important valuation variable the last few months, has now been supplanted as the top value addition criteria, imo.

As of now and moving forward, there is nothing more valuable in college sports than a football program that can produce a quality playoff caliber football product at least every few years and a competitive team against the best competition most years. Nothing.

Because what we are now seeing with viewership numbers the most important variable for a school's valuation is are they competitive against top competition. We might not be that far away from viewership numbers where a .500 record school that keeps losing close games generating almost as much interest when playing an .800 record school as a matchup of two .800 schools if everyone realizes the .500 record school has a very good chance of winning. Or if not winning, at least almost beating the .800 record school and thereby disrupting the apple cart for several teams inside and outside the SEC.

While it has been said any team can beat any other on any given Saturday, in the SEC it has become a weekly occurrence for every team. That means almost every game is as important as any other, and this will cause a massive valuation surge for the SEC.

And not just for the SEC. For example, if Cig keeps getting Indiana into the playoffs, how much more valuable is Michigan or Penn St over Indiana? When does Indiana become more valuable if either school misses the playoffs a few years in a row? Think about it for a bit before you default to the old world view of college football perception. The shear massive valuations for present quality football product and meaningful games dwarfs pasts considerations like tradition and the size of a team's fanbase. What matters now is not how many of your fans will watch your game but how many across the nation will. Brands garner more viewers, but elite football games garner more. Again, look at Indiana.

The college football world is changing fast. The new valuation analysis is:

Winning football programs > National Brands > Markets.

Whule all theee are important, we may find out in a few years that they have become the same thing.

Don't forget that media partners pay for basketball too. Even though the lion's share of the basketball playoffs may go to the ncaa, the media partners will want a good stable of schools to select matchups from.

And there are other concerns too, though sports fans tend to be less interested in things like institutional fit, or partnering up for non-sports-related projects. And in general, sports helps schools market themselves, which is potentially worth far more than most media deals.

Sure, but football money is now dwarfing everything else. Academics and basketball are now tiebreaker considerations.
10-30-2025 08:24 AM
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Post: #167
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:19 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:17 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 06:40 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I think 14 bids to the Big Dance is enough of a cultural fit for Carolina. We’ll see if it was a one off or the way of the future.

That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?

Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.

I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2025 08:38 AM by Lurker Above.)
10-30-2025 08:28 AM
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Post: #168
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:24 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:13 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:01 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  Every expansion has an upside or they wouldn't have been made, but we have come to the fork in the road where any expansion may carry downside as well.
The SEC has been so smart and consistent about their choices, but any further expansion no carry risks.

Of the four schools oft mentioned (FSU, Clemson, Carolina and UVa) for SEC expansion, each pair carries risk.

Florida State and Clemson would fit like a glove into SEC culture, but these are the two schools the SEC needs the least.
The SEC already owns the markets, or at least a good share where those schools are located. Adding FSU and Clemson only mean increased competition for resources for very little increase in revenue.
Carolina and Virginia on the other hand are total opposites. Neither are cultural fits for the SEC, but the potential market means that the pair could offer a financial boon to the conference. The downside is that the uneasy fit could create friction within the conference which is something the SEC does not experience now.

The other overriding negative is that taking all four weakens the asset value of the ACC and reduces the profitability of ESPN.

A real quandary.

Missouri and Oklahoma don’t fit the SEC culture but here we are.

UNC and Virginia get the SEC into new markets and new states. Florida State does get them a bigger share of one of the biggest states but it is still duplicating what they already have. Clemson does nothing to expand the footprint or market share. A bigger name than South Carolina but still in a small state with no major cities.

North Carolina and Virginia are in bigger markets that are growing. It gets the league into the DC area. Neither are football blue bloods but are at least usually decent. Improves the basketball status by adding a true blue blood and another with a good history and fairly recent championship.

The times have changed. Markets are valuable, but national brands are more more valuable. But now even national brands, which had become the most important valuation variable the last few months, has now been supplanted as the top value addition criteria, imo.

As of now and moving forward, there is nothing more valuable in college sports than a football program that can produce a quality playoff caliber football product at least every few years and a competitive team against the best competition most years. Nothing.

Because what we are now seeing with viewership numbers the most important variable for a school's valuation is are they competitive against top competition. We might not be that far away from viewership numbers where a .500 record school that keeps losing close games generating almost as much interest when playing an .800 record school as a matchup of two .800 schools if everyone realizes the .500 record school has a very good chance of winning. Or if not winning, at least almost beating the .800 record school and thereby disrupting the apple cart for several teams inside and outside the SEC.

While it has been said any team can beat any other on any given Saturday, in the SEC it has become a weekly occurrence for every team. That means almost every game is as important as any other, and this will cause a massive valuation surge for the SEC.

And not just for the SEC. For example, if Cig keeps getting Indiana into the playoffs, how much more valuable is Michigan or Penn St over Indiana? When does Indiana become more valuable if either school misses the playoffs a few years in a row? Think about it for a bit before you default to the old world view of college football perception. The shear massive valuations for present quality football product and meaningful games dwarfs pasts considerations like tradition and the size of a team's fanbase. What matters now is not how many of your fans will watch your game but how many across the nation will. Brands garner more viewers, but elite football games garner more. Again, look at Indiana.

The college football world is changing fast. The new valuation analysis is:

Winning football programs > National Brands > Markets.

Whule all theee are important, we may find out in a few years that they have become the same thing.

Don't forget that media partners pay for basketball too. Even though the lion's share of the basketball playoffs may go to the ncaa, the media partners will want a good stable of schools to select matchups from.

And there are other concerns too, though sports fans tend to be less interested in things like institutional fit, or partnering up for non-sports-related projects. And in general, sports helps schools market themselves, which is potentially worth far more than most media deals.

Sure, but football money is now dwarfing everything else. Academics and basketball are now tiebreaker considerations.

Don't listen to the hype.

Research dollars can dwarf entire media deals.
10-30-2025 08:45 AM
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Post: #169
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:19 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:17 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 06:40 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I think 14 bids to the Big Dance is enough of a cultural fit for Carolina. We’ll see if it was a one off or the way of the future.

That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?

Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.

I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.

Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.
10-30-2025 08:49 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:49 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:19 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:17 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 06:40 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  I think 14 bids to the Big Dance is enough of a cultural fit for Carolina. We’ll see if it was a one off or the way of the future.

That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?

Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.

I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.

Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.

If the SEC added UNC that would split the top 4 brands. That said, the SEC position has been quite clear for a long time with regard to North Carolina and Virginia. Preference #1 has been that a healthy ACC is the best protection of the SEC's markets in the South. Position #2 is that if the ACC becomes unstable the SEC wants North Carolina, would take Duke to get them, and wants Virginia. They see it not only as a market addition but as the best defense of their more Southern markets.

The caveat is that when it was conceived as a plan the Big Ten had no stated desire to be anything but contiguous. There is more to consider now. But taking FSU with those aforementioned 3 is considered a viable defense. Nobody believes they would take Clemson, Georgia Tech doesn't harm the SEC's dominance in Georgia, and Miami has never been ours anyway. The SEC gets the most bang for the least shares by taking Duke, F.S.U., North Carolina and Virginia. 2 top 4 hoops brands, 1 football champion, and a strong regional hoops brand and market.

The interesting thing for the future is South Florida. You can't escape having to evaluate the potential of an AAU school in Florida with 50,000 plus enrollment in a large DMA even if they represent less than 3% of the viewership now. Put the right patch on their jersey and their numbers go way up. If the SEC went to 22 with Clemson and South Florida, we'd be a lot better off for the not too distant future.

When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lurker's emphasis on football as being the most profitable pathway for the immediate future. I disagree with him for the SEC's long-range plans. Football at the grass roots level is running into headwinds, as are the world economies. Basketball is profitable too, but cheaper to produce. I believe the SEC's long-range strategy is sound. Add branding to football but add more branding to basketball so that the conference dominates ratings in both sports. And if all of those you add have strong diamond sports too, then all the better. The SEC is best positioned for the minimizing of travel and the maximization of viewers without having to spread their brand coast to coast, because coast to coast already watches their brand anyway.
10-30-2025 09:07 AM
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Skyhawk Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:49 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:19 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:17 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  That is a great one liner.

Here is a thought, if 14 or close to it is the new norm, what will be the number after expansion? If the SEC brings in 4 schools, is it 16, 17? At 16 the SEC has a quarter of a 64 team NCAA MBB Tournament. Probably the same for WBB.

Now what happens if the SEC goes to 24 and gets 20 or 21 teams in the NCAA MBB Tournament? That is practically a third of 64, and if the MBB Tournament (Maybe the NCAA part gets dropped) goes to 72 that is still over 25% of the teams. What effect on the sport will that cause? If it causes an even greater vacuuming of top BB talent at some point the entire conference gets invites and decides who else gets invitations. Does the B1G still have as much leverage on BB post-season decisions as the SEC at that point?

Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.

I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.

Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.

If the SEC added UNC that would split the top 4 brands. That said, the SEC position has been quite clear for a long time with regard to North Carolina and Virginia. Preference #1 has been that a healthy ACC is the best protection of the SEC's markets in the South. Position #2 is that if the ACC becomes unstable the SEC wants North Carolina, would take Duke to get them, and wants Virginia. They see it not only as a market addition but as the best defense of their more Southern markets.

The caveat is that when it was conceived as a plan the Big Ten had no stated desire to be anything but contiguous. There is more to consider now. But taking FSU with those aforementioned 3 is considered a viable defense. Nobody believes they would take Clemson, Georgia Tech doesn't harm the SEC's dominance in Georgia, and Miami has never been ours anyway. The SEC gets the most bang for the least shares by taking Duke, F.S.U., North Carolina and Virginia. 2 top 4 hoops brands, 1 football champion, and a strong regional hoops brand and market.

The interesting thing for the future is South Florida. You can't escape having to evaluate the potential of an AAU school in Florida with 50,000 plus enrollment in a large DMA even if they represent less than 3% of the viewership now. Put the right patch on their jersey and their numbers go way up. If the SEC went to 22 with Clemson and South Florida, we'd be a lot better off for the not too distant future.

When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lurker's emphasis on football as being the most profitable pathway for the immediate future. I disagree with him for the SEC's long-range plans. Football at the grass roots level is running into headwinds, as are the world economies. Basketball is profitable too, but cheaper to produce. I believe the SEC's long-range strategy is sound. Add branding to football but add more branding to basketball so that the conference dominates ratings in both sports. And if all of those you add have strong diamond sports too, then all the better. The SEC is best positioned for the minimizing of travel and the maximization of viewers without having to spread their brand coast to coast, because coast to coast already watches their brand anyway.

As you know, I've long been a proponent of USF in realignment, even before they gained AAU status. I remember linking to some decade-old development plan they had. Which, apparently, they've achieved.

I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.
10-30-2025 09:24 AM
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #172
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:49 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:19 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Basketball is not football. We collectively outspent everybody else last season by a mile, but it remains to be seen if we can do that every year. My opinion is that the BE, ACC and B1G will all significantly increase basketball spending going forward, and we’ll settle in around the top of the heap but not necessarily #1. Neither we, nor the B1G, nor the 2 of us combined can dictate policy to the others right now, and it’s not currently worth it for us to add enough basball schools to change that.

I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.

Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.

If the SEC added UNC that would split the top 4 brands. That said, the SEC position has been quite clear for a long time with regard to North Carolina and Virginia. Preference #1 has been that a healthy ACC is the best protection of the SEC's markets in the South. Position #2 is that if the ACC becomes unstable the SEC wants North Carolina, would take Duke to get them, and wants Virginia. They see it not only as a market addition but as the best defense of their more Southern markets.

The caveat is that when it was conceived as a plan the Big Ten had no stated desire to be anything but contiguous. There is more to consider now. But taking FSU with those aforementioned 3 is considered a viable defense. Nobody believes they would take Clemson, Georgia Tech doesn't harm the SEC's dominance in Georgia, and Miami has never been ours anyway. The SEC gets the most bang for the least shares by taking Duke, F.S.U., North Carolina and Virginia. 2 top 4 hoops brands, 1 football champion, and a strong regional hoops brand and market.

The interesting thing for the future is South Florida. You can't escape having to evaluate the potential of an AAU school in Florida with 50,000 plus enrollment in a large DMA even if they represent less than 3% of the viewership now. Put the right patch on their jersey and their numbers go way up. If the SEC went to 22 with Clemson and South Florida, we'd be a lot better off for the not too distant future.

When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lurker's emphasis on football as being the most profitable pathway for the immediate future. I disagree with him for the SEC's long-range plans. Football at the grass roots level is running into headwinds, as are the world economies. Basketball is profitable too, but cheaper to produce. I believe the SEC's long-range strategy is sound. Add branding to football but add more branding to basketball so that the conference dominates ratings in both sports. And if all of those you add have strong diamond sports too, then all the better. The SEC is best positioned for the minimizing of travel and the maximization of viewers without having to spread their brand coast to coast, because coast to coast already watches their brand anyway.

As you know, I've long been a proponent of USF in realignment, even before they gained AAU status. I remember linking to some decade-old development plan they had. Which, apparently, they've achieved.

I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.
10-30-2025 09:25 AM
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Skyhawk Offline
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Post: #173
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:25 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:49 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:28 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  I didn't say anything about adding basketball schools. The SEC could become the elite grouping of basketball brands without adding basketball schools. That is my point.

There is little reason to expect any other conference will march the SEC in BB spending. Individual programs will, but not conference-wide. I think most B1G schools will have to spend more on football to chase the SEC and its own top tier football products..

That means the SEC BB conference games become more valuable and most other conferences games less valuable, which could cause greater separation in the favor of the SEC.

Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.

If the SEC added UNC that would split the top 4 brands. That said, the SEC position has been quite clear for a long time with regard to North Carolina and Virginia. Preference #1 has been that a healthy ACC is the best protection of the SEC's markets in the South. Position #2 is that if the ACC becomes unstable the SEC wants North Carolina, would take Duke to get them, and wants Virginia. They see it not only as a market addition but as the best defense of their more Southern markets.

The caveat is that when it was conceived as a plan the Big Ten had no stated desire to be anything but contiguous. There is more to consider now. But taking FSU with those aforementioned 3 is considered a viable defense. Nobody believes they would take Clemson, Georgia Tech doesn't harm the SEC's dominance in Georgia, and Miami has never been ours anyway. The SEC gets the most bang for the least shares by taking Duke, F.S.U., North Carolina and Virginia. 2 top 4 hoops brands, 1 football champion, and a strong regional hoops brand and market.

The interesting thing for the future is South Florida. You can't escape having to evaluate the potential of an AAU school in Florida with 50,000 plus enrollment in a large DMA even if they represent less than 3% of the viewership now. Put the right patch on their jersey and their numbers go way up. If the SEC went to 22 with Clemson and South Florida, we'd be a lot better off for the not too distant future.

When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lurker's emphasis on football as being the most profitable pathway for the immediate future. I disagree with him for the SEC's long-range plans. Football at the grass roots level is running into headwinds, as are the world economies. Basketball is profitable too, but cheaper to produce. I believe the SEC's long-range strategy is sound. Add branding to football but add more branding to basketball so that the conference dominates ratings in both sports. And if all of those you add have strong diamond sports too, then all the better. The SEC is best positioned for the minimizing of travel and the maximization of viewers without having to spread their brand coast to coast, because coast to coast already watches their brand anyway.

As you know, I've long been a proponent of USF in realignment, even before they gained AAU status. I remember linking to some decade-old development plan they had. Which, apparently, they've achieved.

I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.

Well, as I presume you know, both those schools were valuable additions. If USF turned out to be at least as valuable as those, it'd be a good addition.
10-30-2025 09:29 AM
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:29 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:25 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:49 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Different schools tend to prioritize different things in different ways.

That said, I think the big10 adding Kansas and Duke would be a huge step in the right direction.

If the SEC added UNC that would split the top 4 brands. That said, the SEC position has been quite clear for a long time with regard to North Carolina and Virginia. Preference #1 has been that a healthy ACC is the best protection of the SEC's markets in the South. Position #2 is that if the ACC becomes unstable the SEC wants North Carolina, would take Duke to get them, and wants Virginia. They see it not only as a market addition but as the best defense of their more Southern markets.

The caveat is that when it was conceived as a plan the Big Ten had no stated desire to be anything but contiguous. There is more to consider now. But taking FSU with those aforementioned 3 is considered a viable defense. Nobody believes they would take Clemson, Georgia Tech doesn't harm the SEC's dominance in Georgia, and Miami has never been ours anyway. The SEC gets the most bang for the least shares by taking Duke, F.S.U., North Carolina and Virginia. 2 top 4 hoops brands, 1 football champion, and a strong regional hoops brand and market.

The interesting thing for the future is South Florida. You can't escape having to evaluate the potential of an AAU school in Florida with 50,000 plus enrollment in a large DMA even if they represent less than 3% of the viewership now. Put the right patch on their jersey and their numbers go way up. If the SEC went to 22 with Clemson and South Florida, we'd be a lot better off for the not too distant future.

When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.

I don't necessarily disagree with Lurker's emphasis on football as being the most profitable pathway for the immediate future. I disagree with him for the SEC's long-range plans. Football at the grass roots level is running into headwinds, as are the world economies. Basketball is profitable too, but cheaper to produce. I believe the SEC's long-range strategy is sound. Add branding to football but add more branding to basketball so that the conference dominates ratings in both sports. And if all of those you add have strong diamond sports too, then all the better. The SEC is best positioned for the minimizing of travel and the maximization of viewers without having to spread their brand coast to coast, because coast to coast already watches their brand anyway.

As you know, I've long been a proponent of USF in realignment, even before they gained AAU status. I remember linking to some decade-old development plan they had. Which, apparently, they've achieved.

I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.

Well, as I presume you know, both those schools were valuable additions. If USF turned out to be at least as valuable as those, it'd be a good addition.

Yes they were valuable. I'm a Maryland alumni, so I know the back story. However, aside from their academics and media market locations, their athletic returns, especially in football were nothing to celebrate.
10-30-2025 09:50 AM
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Gitanole Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:25 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  ....
I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.

Maryland was poached from the ACC (today’s M2). In that sense it is analogous to recent P2 additions from the PAC or B12.

Rutgers was called up from the American (today’s G6).
10-30-2025 10:07 AM
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 10:07 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:25 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  ....
I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.

Maryland was poached from the ACC (today’s M2). In that sense it is analogous to recent P2 additions from the PAC or B12.

Rutgers was called up from the American (today’s G6).

I understand that. My point is that South Florida would be a similar addition to Rutgers, especially since they both came from the same conference. Great academics, large media market, but little athletic success, especially in football.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2025 10:11 AM by andybible1995.)
10-30-2025 10:10 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #177
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-29-2025 05:29 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(10-29-2025 05:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-29-2025 04:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2025 03:21 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  
(10-29-2025 01:25 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  So once again, I'm assuming UNC, UVA, FSU, and Duke go to the SEC. Those are the best brands available. And it would solidify the SEC as the top football and basketball conference. But that still leaves Miami, Clemson, and GT on the board.

Literally my whole point of this thread is to prove that this assumption is folly.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else.
Nobody else is cash positive.
*New point* The SEC doesn't care enough about basketball to sacrifice anything about football -- not money by dilution; not tradition; not rivarlies.
New point! Slive and Sankey made basketball priority #1 for improving the overall athletic standing of the SEC. I don't know where you think you get your information but it is certainly not from the conference office.

North Carolina has been a subject of interest since 1990, contacted us about taking them and Duke in 2011 if Virginia and Georgia Tech headed with Maryland to the Big 10, and reached out again 3 days after the news about Texas and Oklahoma broke.

Second point: There are many ways to monetize the product. Big additions like Texas and Oklahoma with valuations at or over 1 billion each are indeed in short supply. Markets can add value. A strong brand which draws a large number of viewers added to our strong brands with large numbers of viewers can add value. As much as Notre Dame, the last unaffiliated whale? Nope. Enough to pay their way in? Yes.

Third point: ESPN will have a lot to say about who is worth it to them and as our business partner which helps us already to maximize value across the spectrum of sports, we'll listen.

And as I stated somewhere else today, the most preferable outcome for the SEC is a healthy ACC. That means we are free to simply do as we prefer. An unhealthy and unsteady ACC means we have to act proactively and the presidents have had plans in place to do exactly that since 1990. Happily we've already added A&M, Texas, and Oklahoma and took South Carolina as a reasonable replacement for Clemson who backed away from interest in 1991.

If Florida State was hellbent to leave the ACC the SEC and ESPN would take them to secure the top ad rates in the Florida market. If they needed a partner I wouldn't be surprised to see a major hoops brand like Kansas join them, unless the ACC was in danger of blowing apart. Then you would see the defensive additions to the SEC made to protect market domination in some key states and a push to add the states of North Carolina and Virginia preferably with the flagship AAU schools.

But this constant horse manure I see on blog sites and repeated in message forums about who can add value and who doesn't isn't anywhere remotely close to the considerations made at the conference office. Whether Kramer, Slive, or Sankey, or Schiller before them all who first strategized about SEC growth, there are layers of reasons the SEC could take schools that make no sense to fans.

Ultimately, it is about $$s.

The Big Ten presidents REALLY wanted Stanford and Cal. The TV networks told them they weren't paying for them. So they didn't invite them.

In 2011, the OU president and enough of the rest wanted to add Louisville to the Big 12 after they added WVU. But they needed a 12th and the networks told them they weren't paying for Cincinnati or whoever else they looked at. So they stayed at 10.

It's too bad for the Big 12 that BYU wasn't on the menu in 2011. I don't know that Louisville + BYU would have brought enough to keep OUT in the fold in 2021, and I'm really happy that things have worked out the way that they have with OUT joining the SEC, but that's an interesting "what if".

The way JR completely ignored this leads me to say no. However, if Miami were on the.menu...
10-30-2025 10:13 AM
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Gitanole Offline
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Post: #178
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 09:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  ....
When Boomer's are gone, USF will be on equal footing with FSU and UF in that none of them will have the number of deep pocket donors they have now.
....

There’s a rumour going around that even boomers can’t take their money with them.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/great-wea...07724.html
10-30-2025 10:16 AM
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #179
RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 08:45 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:24 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:13 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 08:01 AM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  Missouri and Oklahoma don’t fit the SEC culture but here we are.

UNC and Virginia get the SEC into new markets and new states. Florida State does get them a bigger share of one of the biggest states but it is still duplicating what they already have. Clemson does nothing to expand the footprint or market share. A bigger name than South Carolina but still in a small state with no major cities.

North Carolina and Virginia are in bigger markets that are growing. It gets the league into the DC area. Neither are football blue bloods but are at least usually decent. Improves the basketball status by adding a true blue blood and another with a good history and fairly recent championship.

The times have changed. Markets are valuable, but national brands are more more valuable. But now even national brands, which had become the most important valuation variable the last few months, has now been supplanted as the top value addition criteria, imo.

As of now and moving forward, there is nothing more valuable in college sports than a football program that can produce a quality playoff caliber football product at least every few years and a competitive team against the best competition most years. Nothing.

Because what we are now seeing with viewership numbers the most important variable for a school's valuation is are they competitive against top competition. We might not be that far away from viewership numbers where a .500 record school that keeps losing close games generating almost as much interest when playing an .800 record school as a matchup of two .800 schools if everyone realizes the .500 record school has a very good chance of winning. Or if not winning, at least almost beating the .800 record school and thereby disrupting the apple cart for several teams inside and outside the SEC.

While it has been said any team can beat any other on any given Saturday, in the SEC it has become a weekly occurrence for every team. That means almost every game is as important as any other, and this will cause a massive valuation surge for the SEC.

And not just for the SEC. For example, if Cig keeps getting Indiana into the playoffs, how much more valuable is Michigan or Penn St over Indiana? When does Indiana become more valuable if either school misses the playoffs a few years in a row? Think about it for a bit before you default to the old world view of college football perception. The shear massive valuations for present quality football product and meaningful games dwarfs pasts considerations like tradition and the size of a team's fanbase. What matters now is not how many of your fans will watch your game but how many across the nation will. Brands garner more viewers, but elite football games garner more. Again, look at Indiana.

The college football world is changing fast. The new valuation analysis is:

Winning football programs > National Brands > Markets.

Whule all theee are important, we may find out in a few years that they have become the same thing.

Don't forget that media partners pay for basketball too. Even though the lion's share of the basketball playoffs may go to the ncaa, the media partners will want a good stable of schools to select matchups from.

And there are other concerns too, though sports fans tend to be less interested in things like institutional fit, or partnering up for non-sports-related projects. And in general, sports helps schools market themselves, which is potentially worth far more than most media deals.

Sure, but football money is now dwarfing everything else. Academics and basketball are now tiebreaker considerations.

Don't listen to the hype.

Research dollars can dwarf entire media deals.

Research dollars are not affected by athletic media deals. That argument is a B1G bluster of misinformation.
10-30-2025 10:33 AM
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Gitanole Offline
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RE: Where is the upside to SEC expansion?
(10-30-2025 10:10 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 10:07 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:25 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(10-30-2025 09:24 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  ....
I think the big10 adding Miami and USF as a pair would be a strong addition, but around here people seem to think that USF would be reaching above their "class" for that. Good enough for ACC but not the big10, or some such.

It's probably because Rutgers came from the AAC to the BIG and became a doormat for the conference. Same with Maryland. BIG fans probably don't want a repeat of that with South Florida.

Maryland was poached from the ACC (today’s M2). In that sense it is analogous to recent P2 additions from the PAC or B12.

Rutgers was called up from the American (today’s G6).

I understand that. My point is that South Florida would be a similar addition to Rutgers, especially since they both came from the same conference. Great academics, large media market, but little athletic success, especially in football.

I took your point. You said ‘same’ regarding Maryland and I wanted to clarify that for the sake of accuracy.

It was an atypical expansion in many ways, definitely. The B1G was not only playing cable-subscription Risk at the time, as everyone was; it was also smoothing some raised cat fur in Pennsylvania (Sandusky collateral damage). Mr Delany saw a fire to put out on that burner when ND made its arrangement with the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2025 10:36 AM by Gitanole.)
10-30-2025 10:33 AM
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