(10-27-2025 01:59 PM)Claw Wrote:  The SEC is never adding Ohio State, Michigan USC, or Penn State. I doubt they would add Notre Dame either. No B1G school is coming to the SEC. The fans are already having a hard time swallowing Mizzou, Oklahoma, and the Texas schools. Forget California or the Midwestern schools. The fanbase won't buy it.

UTx, OU, and A&M culturally do fit into the SEC and the only issues I see at-large with the SEC fans is how it affected scheduling with a larger membership. But then again, some fans have been complaining about that since 1992.

Mizzou is a bit of an outlier simply because they don't fit as well culturally and the SEC putting them in the East for over a decade didn't help. If the NCAA had lifted the divisional requirement sooner, I think they would have been adopted faster by the league.

There will be pushback (myself included) from any expansion no matter how well those schools fit into the league simply because people finally got what they wanted, a 4 year rotation, and this would upset it. Most fans want to change at all.

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

I always mention Miami. However, just because they are AAU now does not mean they fit culturally in the B1G. They actually fit culturally in the ACC better than anywhere else. Northwestern has twice as many grad students as Miami, and also has more grad students than Miami has undergraduate students.

However, UCLA set the precedent it's now okay to be a B1G school and play at least a half hour away from campus.

(10-27-2025 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:59 PM)Claw Wrote:  The SEC is never adding Ohio State, Michigan USC, or Penn State. I doubt they would add Notre Dame either. No B1G school is coming to the SEC. The fans are already having a hard time swallowing Mizzou, Oklahoma, and the Texas schools. Forget California or the Midwestern schools. The fanbase won't buy it.

Honestly, the SEC's best play is for the ACC to cement itself as a stable third conference. The SEC can still schedule the top of the ACC as it desires. They can pad their OOC wins with the bottom of the ACC.

It costs the SEC little or nothing for the ACC to stay in tact. There is no need to carve up the pie for any ACC school if they stay in the ACC.

My guess is that TV makes more money with a stable ACC as well. As much as some of the ACC wants to leave, they may not have anywhere to go. Everyone but the teams trying to leave are probably better off with them staying where they are.

That's the problem with realignment. Where YOU want to be doesn't really count. It's a decision made by other people. No matter what you have to offer, you can't control them.

The SEC has been content to leave the ACC alone as a great buffer for decades. The issue is the SEC's chief competitor wants into that region for markets and other much less mentioned reasons.

ESPN is as threatened by that potential as the SEC.

Therefore, the preemptive move is to remove those schools which are most appealing to the Big Ten by placing them in the SEC. This secures ESPN's holdings and secures the SEC's control over its own markets and region, while slightly expanding those markets.

Had the Big Ten gotten fat and happy off of the carcass of the PAC 12 this wouldn't be an issue. They want into the Southeast so it's an issue!

That, in and of itself, is not the problem.
The problem for ESPN and to some extent the SEC, is that there are schools that were dismissive of B1G overtures in the past that are now listening intently to what the Big Ten is offering.

(10-27-2025 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

I'll say it again, if FSU is off the table, Miami and Arizona State (or an outside chance Colorado) make the most sense if the B1G expands to 20. Duke is not going to help their ratings, which is obviously what they need to focus on.

1) Arizona State does fit culturally as a B1G school these days, and is home to a ton of alumni. ASU adds synergy with the West Coast schools.

2) Colorado fits culturally with the new look B1G and adds synergy with Nebraska, which could use some.

(10-26-2025 10:29 AM)Squiggles Wrote:  

(10-26-2025 08:56 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(10-26-2025 07:08 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I mean I personally think the only expansion move. that really makes sense. is the SEC adding Ohio State, Michigan USC and either Notre Dame or Penn State.

The average value of the Big tenon SEC have risen to the point where additions from outside the P2 don't make sense unless it's Notre Dame

Why in the world would the SEC ever consider going coast to coast?

SEC After Dark

I think the Knoxville perspective is that if you're up for SEC After Dark, that wasn't really moonshine.

(10-27-2025 03:01 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

I'll say it again, if FSU is off the table, Miami and Arizona State (or an outside chance Colorado) make the most sense if the B1G expands to 20. Duke is not going to help their ratings, which is obviously what they need to focus on.

1) Arizona State does fit culturally as a B1G school these days, and is home to a ton of alumni. ASU adds synergy with the West Coast schools.

2) Colorado fits culturally with the new look B1G and adds synergy with Nebraska, which could use some.

I agree with both of those schools, and Kansas as well.

But, I think the first 2 should be Miami and Duke.

Despite others trying to talk up Miami as an SEC target - probably as a defensive move to prevent the big10 from adding them - I just don't see the SEC adding Miami, for many reasons, including some of what others have noted.

And Duke to the SEC likely only happens if paired with NC, and I think that Duke not being a part of the M7 was rather telling on that front.

Schools out west can wait. Only Kansas has any chance of an SEC invite.

So while the first 3 for the SEC are likely FSU, Clemson, and North Carolina, the first 3 for the big10 should be Miami, Kansas, and Duke.

After that is debateable. I think Virginia's in play, but if the SEC adds NC, I think they follow like Oklahoma stayed with Texas.

If the big10 adds VA, they're likely done for awhile, and the SEC has their pick of the ACC menu. If the SEC adds VA, then GT is likely on the menu for the big10.

But we have several years for the conferences to continue to vett these schools, until media deals open up. So who knows how things may change in the meantime.

(10-27-2025 04:59 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 03:01 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

I'll say it again, if FSU is off the table, Miami and Arizona State (or an outside chance Colorado) make the most sense if the B1G expands to 20. Duke is not going to help their ratings, which is obviously what they need to focus on.

1) Arizona State does fit culturally as a B1G school these days, and is home to a ton of alumni. ASU adds synergy with the West Coast schools.

2) Colorado fits culturally with the new look B1G and adds synergy with Nebraska, which could use some.

I agree with both of those schools, and Kansas as well.

But, I think the first 2 should be Miami and Duke.

Despite others trying to talk up Miami as an SEC target - probably as a defensive move to prevent the big10 from adding them - I just don't see the SEC adding Miami, for many reasons, including some of what you note.

And Duke to the SEC likely only happens if paired with NC, and I think that Duke not being a part of the M7 was rather telling on that front.

Schools out west can wait. Only Kansas has any chance of an SEC invite.

So while the first 3 for the SEC are likely FSU, Clemson, and North Carolina, the first 3 for the big10 should be Miami, Kansas, and Duke.

After that is debateable. I think Virginia's in play, but if the SEC adds NC, I think they follow like Oklahoma stayed with Texas.

If the big10 adds VA, they're likely done for awhile, and the SEC has their pick of the ACC menu. If the SEC adds VA, then GT is likely on the menu for the big10.

But we have several years for the conferences to continue to vett these schools, until media deals open up. So who knows how things may change in the meantime.

I'll take "Secure 19 million more potential viewers and the best remaining brand in Florida for $5000 please!" And the Jeopardy Question is What will the SEC do?

Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, & either Miami to block the Big 10, or FSU to carry 77% of the Florida college sports market. Clemson will still be there should the SEC want to move past 20. The next likeliest move would be North Carolina and Virginia to go with Miami and Florida State. The flagships of the two best remaining markets and all of the P value in Florida.

(10-27-2025 12:21 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

Friday is the play I expect and for 2 games. Having a better-quality game on the SECN to go with the two they usually have would keep subscriptions up too.

5 slots instead of 3 would make 20 easy to accommodate.

7:30 Friday
9:30 Friday
noon Sat
3:30 Sat
7:30 Sat

Sprinkle in some games that are expected to be "big" on Fridays to really develop the time slot. SEC fans are easy to train, we'll all tune in on Fridays for quality football. Throw in 5 more slots for ESPN and that's 10 games that can be easily accommodated each weekend...so plenty of room for some B1G, ACC and Big 12 games, too. Maybe some ND...

(10-27-2025 01:08 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:56 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:21 AM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:15 AM)The Beaver Wrote:  You said their basketball was going to be mediocre, which is ridiculous. If Davis doesn't do it they'll bring in someone else who does. UNC isn't going to be mediocre at basketball for long, if ever.

Agreed they may not be mediocre for long. If not for Bubba, they wouldn't even Dance last year; then fell on their face. Decades since that happened to them.
We'll see.

Actually, they absolutely blew out SDSU and proved they belonged in the Dance.

The wolf guy is a hater.

It's a shame that he spends all of his time on snarky comments, it's possible that he might actually have a useful thought every now and then.

Ahh, the play-in game. My bad.
Actually, I've let you guys alone for a while. As long as you know I'm watching, correcting the Carolina Way where I can. Might take awhile. : cheers:

Oh, Lubin(that guy you didn't want anymore?) drilled in 18 points, the other night. Thanks!

Ironically, they've spent a whole lot of time trying to convince me that NC St would be a good fit for the SEC, or that UNC should actually stay in the ACC. Perhaps you should sit and watch for a bit and see that they're not actually your enemies (at least not here).

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Yea.

Miami wasn't very good from 2013-2021, while Clemson and FSU won 3 National Titles between the 2 of them. Check out these ACC tv numbers:

FSU: 5.0m avg top 21 game avg
Clemson: 4.7m avg
Miami 3.7m avg

Miami's numbers were far ahead of #4 Louisville (2.9m).

Fast forward to today and Miami is killing it on ratings, 10.8m in the first game this season, and over 6m for both Florida and FSU, too. Their numbers this year are better than all but a couple in either of the P2 in fact. Throw in their elite Academics and pretty good geography (not great for either of the P2 but not disqualified b/c of geography, either) and they are leaps and bounds ahead of anybody else outside of the top 3 in the ACC. UVA? We have no need to even consider a school like them unless Miami chooses the B1G.

(10-27-2025 05:58 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:08 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:56 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:21 AM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  Agreed they may not be mediocre for long. If not for Bubba, they wouldn't even Dance last year; then fell on their face. Decades since that happened to them.
We'll see.

Actually, they absolutely blew out SDSU and proved they belonged in the Dance.

The wolf guy is a hater.

It's a shame that he spends all of his time on snarky comments, it's possible that he might actually have a useful thought every now and then.

Ahh, the play-in game. My bad.
Actually, I've let you guys alone for a while. As long as you know I'm watching, correcting the Carolina Way where I can. Might take awhile. : cheers:

Oh, Lubin(that guy you didn't want anymore?) drilled in 18 points, the other night. Thanks!

Ironically, they've spent a whole lot of time trying to convince me that NC St would be a good fit for the SEC, or that UNC should actually stay in the ACC. Perhaps you should sit and watch for a bit and see that they're not actually your enemies (at least not here).

Enemies is over-stating it. But as long as they know the same history I do, were good. I actually haven't been in NC since '79, so if both schools ditch the ACC, fine by me.
Since a lot of their trying to convince you probably took place before I joined, and I don't know what they said about State in the Carolina Way past, I will sit and watch some more.
Thanks

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

If they're going to be forced to play on Friday nights if they expand, they'll no doubt do an analysis of adding that Friday night game without expansion. Throwing Kentucky vs. Auburn on Friday night this week turns a SEC Network game into a 3.5 million ESPN showcase.

I truly don't think the money will be there to expand -- there would have to be more reasons than dollar signs.

(10-27-2025 08:46 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 05:58 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:08 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 11:56 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Actually, they absolutely blew out SDSU and proved they belonged in the Dance.

The wolf guy is a hater.

It's a shame that he spends all of his time on snarky comments, it's possible that he might actually have a useful thought every now and then.

Ahh, the play-in game. My bad.
Actually, I've let you guys alone for a while. As long as you know I'm watching, correcting the Carolina Way where I can. Might take awhile. : cheers:

Oh, Lubin(that guy you didn't want anymore?) drilled in 18 points, the other night. Thanks!

Ironically, they've spent a whole lot of time trying to convince me that NC St would be a good fit for the SEC, or that UNC should actually stay in the ACC. Perhaps you should sit and watch for a bit and see that they're not actually your enemies (at least not here).

Enemies is over-stating it. But as long as they know the same history I do, were good. I actually haven't been in NC since '79, so if both schools ditch the ACC, fine by me.
Since a lot of their trying to convince you probably took place before I joined, and I don't know what they said about State in the Carolina Way past, I will sit and watch some more.
Thanks

The UNC posters haven't said much against N.C. State, and really not much but the rivalry stuff against Duke. I've been on the board for over 13 years plus now. It's others outside of the expansionistas and the Tobacco Road crowd that badmouth N.C. State. In fact, a lot of them have been Big 12 fans, some insecure Big Ten fans trumpeting AAU as the end all be all of education, as if that's added a nickel to their income, and of course some former Big East folks still pissed at what happened when they were left behind. So, my advice is don't lose any sleep over it. We get this before every round of realignment when there's a lot of prattling here which will take immediate flight when realignment is over and proves itself again. It's all simply a compilation of business decisions, and that is cold, emotionless, and real.

(10-27-2025 09:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 08:46 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 05:58 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:08 PM)WhidbeyWolf Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  The wolf guy is a hater.

It's a shame that he spends all of his time on snarky comments, it's possible that he might actually have a useful thought every now and then.

Ahh, the play-in game. My bad.
Actually, I've let you guys alone for a while. As long as you know I'm watching, correcting the Carolina Way where I can. Might take awhile. : cheers:

Oh, Lubin(that guy you didn't want anymore?) drilled in 18 points, the other night. Thanks!

Ironically, they've spent a whole lot of time trying to convince me that NC St would be a good fit for the SEC, or that UNC should actually stay in the ACC. Perhaps you should sit and watch for a bit and see that they're not actually your enemies (at least not here).

Enemies is over-stating it. But as long as they know the same history I do, were good. I actually haven't been in NC since '79, so if both schools ditch the ACC, fine by me.
Since a lot of their trying to convince you probably took place before I joined, and I don't know what they said about State in the Carolina Way past, I will sit and watch some more.
Thanks

The UNC posters haven't said much against N.C. State, and really not much but the rivalry stuff against Duke. I've been on the board for over 13 years plus now. It's others outside of the expansionistas and the Tobacco Road crowd that badmouth N.C. State. In fact, a lot of them have been Big 12 fans, some insecure Big Ten fans trumpeting AAU as the end all be all of education, as if that's added a nickel to their income, and of course some former Big East folks still pissed at what happened when they were left behind. So, my advice is don't lose any sleep over it. We get this before every round of realignment when there's a lot of prattling here which will take immediate flight when realignment is over and proves itself again. It's all simply a compilation of business decisions, and that is cold, emotionless, and real.

That's fair.

(10-27-2025 09:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

If they're going to be forced to play on Friday nights if they expand, they'll no doubt do an analysis of adding that Friday night game without expansion. Throwing Kentucky vs. Auburn on Friday night this week turns a SEC Network game into a 3.5 million ESPN showcase.

I truly don't think the money will be there to expand -- there would have to be more reasons than dollar signs.

The frustrating thing is that we probably won’t know for several years.

FWIW, I think the money would be there for UNC, FSU, Clemson and/or Miami to join the SEC, but it would be more like the Oregon/Washington “slightly additive” rather than the OUT move. Looking at B1G ratings vs the SEC, I think that the B1G should go after all 4 of those and is very likely to go after at least 2. That doesn’t mean that we must preemptively grab some or all of them, but I think that if all 4 applied tomorrow we probably would accept them.

(10-27-2025 09:36 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 09:09 PM)OneSockUp Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

If they're going to be forced to play on Friday nights if they expand, they'll no doubt do an analysis of adding that Friday night game without expansion. Throwing Kentucky vs. Auburn on Friday night this week turns a SEC Network game into a 3.5 million ESPN showcase.

I truly don't think the money will be there to expand -- there would have to be more reasons than dollar signs.

The frustrating thing is that we probably won’t know for several years.

FWIW, I think the money would be there for UNC, FSU, Clemson and/or Miami to join the SEC, but it would be more like the Oregon/Washington “slightly additive” rather than the OUT move. Looking at B1G ratings vs the SEC, I think that the B1G should go after all 4 of those and is very likely to go after at least 2. That doesn’t mean that we must preemptively grab some or all of them, but I think that if all 4 applied tomorrow we probably would accept them.

1. The money will be there because ESPN doesn't want to lose them as product. If their choice was to pay them less in the ACC and watch them leave for FOX or pay them more in the SEC then they pay them more in the SEC. And they do that to save their revenue structure.

2. I seriously doubt the Big Ten has any interest in Clemson. They would win half of 5 million viewers. Miami has six million just in their DMA.

3. UNC and Virginia add. And no, there aren't any out there that add as much as Texas and Oklahoma except Notre Dame. But the subscriptions to the SECN in Virginia and North Carolina pay faithfully every month of every year. They add that and bring a national audience to the vastly improved SEC basketball product. Duke offers similar benefits by adding interest in the New England area. The CEO of Apple holds degrees from Auburn and Duke and is a major contributor at both schools both for academic endeavors and athletics. How additive is Duke? Not as much, but they are coveted by the Presidents. FSU and Miami? FSU brings 35% of the state's college sports viewers to add to Florida's 42%. There is some overlap there. Miami is not as additive as FSU but when winning is a content value multiplier.

4. Of course, the SEC will take them. ESPN will pay us to do so, if ESPN feels there is no other way to hold onto those brands.

5. People here overplay the allure of the Big Ten in these matters. They are allied with the competition of ESPN. ESPN will do whatever is necessary to hang onto their product and so far, their track record is far superior to that of FOX. Their product is proving superior in the ratings, and the option for ACC schools to stay in the region is the SEC which ESPN also owns and can make the transition easier and the scheduling out of conference of old rivals easier.

6. The SEC has no buy in and no period of reduced payouts. This is a factor.

7. I've known the SEC's priorities since the 1990-1 realignment period. They will do everything they can to stay regional and protect it from outside influences.

This, Bryan, is the reality. It is in the business interest of ESPN and the SEC. How many we get simply depends upon how threatened the ACC product becomes. It could be 1 and Kansas, 2, 4, or more. It will likely be a whatever it takes matter.


8. It's all simply business.

(10-27-2025 03:01 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 12:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So long as a Southern only strategy works, and the number of TV windows are limited, there is not really much value for SEC expansion. Perhaps this changes with a multi-partner media contract and a 10+1 scheduling model instead of the already expanded 9+1. Who adds to the ratings? Who adds to the media value? UNC and UVa are often mentioned because ESPN is more open to a new DMAs for the SEC than for those who look and feel like SEC schools but whose fans pretty much already are regular SEC viewers (i.e., Clemson and FSU).

It really comes down to whether the networks are willing to pay for the additional schools and whether there is a new window available for the SEC to sell them. The SEC already places three prime games on Saturday network, even after spillover content still has enough to sell a piece to TBS. Even going 9+1 was a difficult sell, as that extra week of SEC vs SEC starts bumping up against the Baseball playoffs. When I look at growth potential I can a SEC Friday Night game in exchange for adding two schools. I have a hard time seeing more opportunities.

I see a similar problem for the B1G, although they actually have more potential as their model is geographically national and they have multiple networks. But beyond Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson (whom it is hard to see the B1G having much interest in) and North Carolina (who are clearly looking SEC), it's hard to see anyone with the ratings to justify the move.

The upside is all about bringing in enough extra money to justify the extra hassle, the lower frequency of second rivalry games and other inconveniences like weeknight football games, of adding a couple schools. For the SEC such schools have to be large whales.

That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

I'll say it again, if FSU is off the table, Miami and Arizona State (or an outside chance Colorado) make the most sense if the B1G expands to 20. Duke is not going to help their ratings, which is obviously what they need to focus on.

1) Arizona State does fit culturally as a B1G school these days, and is home to a ton of alumni. ASU adds synergy with the West Coast schools.

2) Colorado fits culturally with the new look B1G and adds synergy with Nebraska, which could use some.

Uh huh.

You just want the ACC to not be in a weaker position than the Big 12. It makes no sense to keep expanding west. Georgia Tech and Miami would be exceptional additions. And you can replace GT with UVA/UNC.

(10-27-2025 04:59 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 03:01 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 02:42 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-27-2025 01:45 PM)TerryD Wrote:  That leaves just FSU as potentially going to the Big Ten, then.

Miami is perpetually the forgotten Big Ten expansion candidate on this forum for some reason. Look at the TV ratings for them this season when they’re competitive again: they have as high of a ceiling as anyone in the ACC and their school actually fits the Big Ten culturally to the extent that it’s not a Midwestern school (or at least compared to the SEC).

Miami and Duke gets the Big10 to 20.

Gets into 2 new states/markets. Large alumni base in the region. etc. Duke is a top academic school, and a blue blood basketball program with a nation-wide brand.

Since they already have Maryland for the DC area, there's no "need" to add Virginia, and if adding Duke, no "need" for North Carolina. Let the SEC add "the south's oldest rivalry"; with the SEC's new "schedule a P4 school", I have no doubt that the rival games will get scheduled.

I'll say it again, if FSU is off the table, Miami and Arizona State (or an outside chance Colorado) make the most sense if the B1G expands to 20. Duke is not going to help their ratings, which is obviously what they need to focus on.

1) Arizona State does fit culturally as a B1G school these days, and is home to a ton of alumni. ASU adds synergy with the West Coast schools.

2) Colorado fits culturally with the new look B1G and adds synergy with Nebraska, which could use some.

I agree with both of those schools, and Kansas as well.

But, I think the first 2 should be Miami and Duke.

Despite others trying to talk up Miami as an SEC target - probably as a defensive move to prevent the big10 from adding them - I just don't see the SEC adding Miami, for many reasons, including some of what others have noted.

And Duke to the SEC likely only happens if paired with NC, and I think that Duke not being a part of the M7 was rather telling on that front.

Schools out west can wait. Only Kansas has any chance of an SEC invite.

So while the first 3 for the SEC are likely FSU, Clemson, and North Carolina, the first 3 for the big10 should be Miami, Kansas, and Duke.

After that is debateable. I think Virginia's in play, but if the SEC adds NC, I think they follow like Oklahoma stayed with Texas.

If the big10 adds VA, they're likely done for awhile, and the SEC has their pick of the ACC menu. If the SEC adds VA, then GT is likely on the menu for the big10.

But we have several years for the conferences to continue to vett these schools, until media deals open up. So who knows how things may change in the meantime.

I know realignment makes strange bedfellows, however, it is really strange to see anyone suggest that the B1G (or SEC for that matter) make two private schools their first two selections for expansion.

One would think that privates like Northwestern and Vanderbilt would be more comfortable in the ACC with other similar privates, than the other way around. I think Southern Cal is an unusual situation, since it's actually larger that many publics that are found in the ACC).

The SEC adds NC, UVA, FSU, and Clemson. The Big adds Miami and Duke or GT.