China has significantly improved it's scientific research over the years. Unfortunately, right now they are producing the most publications in several fields and producing the most patents in many fields. They have done this without mass migration providing "diversity."

This article pushes the idea that it has been due to their central government providing ~5% of government funding for science and their various projects pushing targeted technologies. The problem with this thesis is that pretty much every other nation with a somewhat developed economy has done something similar. I think the difference is that while Western nations have spent huge amounts in social programs, goodwill and diplomacy, China's efforts have been more focused. They are willing to sacrifice for the advancement of their nation.

I think the article overlooks a few other problems with Chinese research:
1. Spying on US tech companies / Getting Commies in Western nations to help them
2. Paper mills at universities - all reference each other to boost their paper ratings
3. Researchers getting degrees in Western universities, then going back to China.

However, they have still become a scientific powerhouse. They have a large population with high IQ genetics and a culture of hard work, discipline and sacrifice. Two of those things are being chipped away - the large population and the culture. Unfortunately, the same thing has been happening in Western civilization, along with the problems of mass migration and a large social safety net. We need a good long-term scientific strategy.

Quote:China is producing more STEM graduates, publishing more high impact research papers, and filing for more patents than any other country today.

People are amazed with the seemingly sudden outburst of Chinese scientific and technological prowess. But few understand how this has happened.

I’ll dive into some arcane programs launched since Deng’s reform to explore the root of such progress. Unlike the Made in China 2025 plan or the Belt and Road Initiative, these are barely known outside of the country, even unfamiliar to many Chinese. However, their impact is profound and directly power the more visible high-profile programs.

How Beijing Used State Planning to Build a Scientific Powerhouse: Introducing four decades-long Chinese national programs to promote basic research and groom talents

One big difference between China and say, Germany, is that China is pulling the smartest people from a pool of 1 billion people.


However, I would add:

I'm a professor, and I've noticed a huge increase in publications in top journals from Chinese researchers. However, when I talk with those researchers at conferences, it's clear that a lot of them don't know what the f*** they're doing.

This means one of two things: either they're lying about their results (which is VERY common in their culture; there's a ton of studies which suggest that nearly all scientific fraud comes from people who went to high school in China), or they're mindless robots who are data mining to get results that display enough statistical significance to get published yet don't mean anything in reality.

China is getting better at homegrown research. And they'll continue to get better now that the US has partially shut the door to their best students and made it more difficult for the best Chinese-born professors to get jobs here. However, the focus over there is not on scientific understanding or technological breakthroughs; it's on resume-measuring. Their culture prioritizes public appearance above all else - even above actual achievement, and even above honesty.

(10-22-2025 08:01 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One big difference between China and say, Germany, is that China is pulling the smartest people from a pool of 1 billion people.


However, I would add:

I'm a professor, and I've noticed a huge increase in publications in top journals from Chinese researchers. However, when I talk with those researchers at conferences, it's clear that a lot of them don't know what the f*** they're doing.

This means one of two things: either they're lying about their results (which is VERY common in their culture; there's a ton of studies which suggest that nearly all scientific fraud comes from people who went to high school in China), or they're mindless robots who are data mining to get results that display enough statistical significance to get published yet don't mean anything in reality.

China is getting better at homegrown research. And they'll continue to get better now that the US has partially shut the door to their best students and made it more difficult for the best Chinese-born professors to get jobs here. However, the focus over there is not on scientific understanding or technological breakthroughs; it's on resume-measuring. Their culture prioritizes public appearance above all else - even above actual achievement, and even above honesty.

Honesty is a western Judeo-Christian virtue.

China has capitalism (and research) without the Judeo-Christian ethics. Even most of our athetist scientists have been raised in the Judeo-Christian culture.

Don't forget the role corporate espionage plays in all this.

(10-22-2025 08:01 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  One big difference between China and say, Germany, is that China is pulling the smartest people from a pool of 1 billion people.


However, I would add:

I'm a professor, and I've noticed a huge increase in publications in top journals from Chinese researchers. However, when I talk with those researchers at conferences, it's clear that a lot of them don't know what the f*** they're doing.

This means one of two things: either they're lying about their results (which is VERY common in their culture; there's a ton of studies which suggest that nearly all scientific fraud comes from people who went to high school in China), or they're mindless robots who are data mining to get results that display enough statistical significance to get published yet don't mean anything in reality.

China is getting better at homegrown research. And they'll continue to get better now that the US has partially shut the door to their best students and made it more difficult for the best Chinese-born professors to get jobs here. However, the focus over there is not on scientific understanding or technological breakthroughs; it's on resume-measuring. Their culture prioritizes public appearance above all else - even above actual achievement, and even above honesty.

that's concise and spot-on ... yeah, I wouldn't have walked out of your class ...

I think there is some "credential fraud" in China where a PhD is not the same as a US PhD, but India has a much bigger problem with credential fraud. In India fake credentials seems to be a major industry.

I think the success of majority ethnic Han countries in Singapore and Taiwan show that it is not the CCP or the government of China that is the driver of scientific progress in China. It is the nature and nurture of the people.

(10-22-2025 11:21 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Don't forget the role corporate espionage plays in all this.

Espionage probably doesn't show up in the numbers cited in the OP (patents, academic journal articles, and STEM graduates).

Espionage rarely leads to patents because you can't patent something you stole.

Espionage rarely leads to academic journal articles because any research that is valuable to the academic community is usually sent to a conference or a journal almost immediately, giving the original researchers priority (which is a well-established practice in academia).

And there's no way that espionage would lead to more STEM graduates.


I think that espionage is an additional issue that exacerbates the issue in the OP. Espionage makes it easier for them to move from fundamental research (patents, academic articles) to technologies that actually work in practice.