(10-13-2025 11:53 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  Someone quoted Red and I read it.

You're speculating as to how strong Trumps belief in God is. Trump is like Teddy R., he believed in the adage, "speak softly but carry a big stick". You can do more with diplomacy than with guns...in most cases. As president one has to deal with rogue nations harshly sometimes because you are representing the nation as a whole for its betterment. You can have a lily livered leader as every nation will take advantage of you and the nation will suffer, i.e., see Joe Bidens rule. As an example, Biden insulted the Saudi's and then went begging for oil, that's not leadership, that's being a dumb S.

You are not the judge of whether Trump is Christian enough or not. What's that Bible passage, hmm, "don't look at the splinter in your brothers eye and not see the 2X4 in yours"...I changed it a little. In a nutshell, you are the last person that should be making judgments.

That's pretty funny, Ollie. I've said the same thing to Eric and others here over the years and a few have told me that yes, it is absolutely our place to judge others. But no, I'm not not judging trump, I'm only giving my opinion of what I see in him based on his words and actions. And I'm a sinner myself, never claimed otherwise.

Lastly, I suggest you go look up all the times trump begged SA to produce more oil. But regardless, that really has nothing at all to do with whether trump is "Heaven worthy" or not.

In addition to 'being a free gift you don't have to earn', the other roadblock is Christianity is actually submission. The irony is you don't want a Christian president.

(10-13-2025 02:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 10:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 10:16 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 09:34 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Trump is a, you are who you make yourself person. The idea of heaven being a gift thru Christ suffering as an atonement for what you do is very strange to him.

I pray the day comes when he can make that step of faith, but it will be very hard for him to do.

Agreed, but I believe that ship has long since sailed.

He's the antithesis to pretty much everything Christian.

Doubtful he's ever read The Bible and he likely has no prayer life. Doubtful he's ever sought forgiveness for his sins...if he can even acknowledge he's a sinner. It's clear he worships money and power and he hardly ever goes to church outside of the yearly prayer breakfast photo-ops and the random funeral.

It's really pretty sad that the Christian establishment just ignores all that and embraces him pretty much solely because he used them on their one key issue, abortion. And pretty sure he's still pro-choice as he was back in the day. Heck, that same establishment seemed to call out a guy like Biden, when it's more than evident Biden at least made attempts to be a good Christian.

Its pretty sad that you comment on Christians when you don't understand them. You certainly don't understand Biden either.

I suggest you look up Cyrus the Great who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem.

Born into a Christian home with Christian parents and family, and went to church my whole life. I understand Christians just fine.

You don't act like one here.

(10-13-2025 04:27 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  In addition to 'being a free gift you don't have to earn', the other roadblock is Christianity is actually submission. The irony is you don't want a Christian president.

isn't any faith a verse of submission ... as an atheist, I can't prove mine as = 1 ... however, nobody else can prove theirs either ... hence, "faith" ... notice I never pine on the atheism whine (is only used as a point of reference) ... those folk and the others that do for their 'faith' are no different than any of the overt in any sense ... and Ja!, I do understand for the devout it is their 'duty' to spread the word ... @formerCatholic

I'm a good > evil guy ... that's good enough for my arse ... #henceDJT --->>> #DJTexperiment --->>> #groverII

In my estimation, anyone who votes to elect a Democrat into office and says they are Christian is a liar. You cannot support a vile and sinful platform like theirs and say that you don't agree with their platform but yet are really voting to continue putting them into office.

(10-13-2025 04:42 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  You don't act like one here.

He lies when the truth would fit better.

I like what many have said in this thread. It's great to read your comments and faith in Jesus Christ and His gift to us.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The final judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts.

What is important in the end is what we become through Christ.

(10-13-2025 11:53 AM)olliebaba Wrote:  Someone quoted Red and I read it.

You're speculating as to how strong Trumps belief in God is. Trump is like Teddy R., he believed in the adage, "speak softly but carry a big stick". You can do more with diplomacy than with guns...in most cases. As president one has to deal with rogue nations harshly sometimes because you are representing the nation as a whole for its betterment. You can have a lily livered leader as every nation will take advantage of you and the nation will suffer, i.e., see Joe Bidens rule. As an example, Biden insulted the Saudi's and then went begging for oil, that's not leadership, that's being a dumb S.

You are not the judge of whether Trump is Christian enough or not. What's that Bible passage, hmm, "don't look at the splinter in your brothers eye and not see the 2X4 in yours"...I changed it a little. In a nutshell, you are the last person that should be making judgments.

lol Trump believes in walking softly now? Dear leader has so many superlative traits. This gets better and better

Bally, you're out of your element.

(10-13-2025 02:24 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That's pretty funny, Ollie. I've said the same thing to Eric and others here over the years and a few have told me that yes, it is absolutely our place to judge others. But no, I'm not not judging trump, I'm only giving my opinion of what I see in him based on his words and actions. And I'm a sinner myself, never claimed otherwise.

Lastly, I suggest you go look up all the times trump begged SA to produce more oil. But regardless, that really has nothing at all to do with whether trump is "Heaven worthy" or not.

Its not complicated stuff. The passage does not say don't judge...full stop. Its says not to be a hypocrite in your judgements. It says if you also have a problem in the thing you are judging in someone you need to fix it in you first, THEN you can go to your bother and help him with the issue. Obviously to then go to your bother on something you had to judge something in them they were doing. DUH

You can't live life without making judgments. You have to make judgments every day, including judging if situations and people are good for you to be around based on their behavior and lifestyles. As Paul wrote in his epistle, "Do you not know you will one day judge the Angels, how much more the things of this life?" Jesus said "Judge righteous judgement".

No one here remotely pretended they were Trump or anyone else's final judge, we are all simply looking at his words and fruits and judging what we THINK is his current salvation. And no one has to apologize for that because there is nothing wrong with it as long as we are being fair and righteous in our judgments, knowing that God is the final judge.

Did Jesus not say "you will know them by their fruits"? How are you going to know people by their fruit if you don't make a judgment? How are you going to know who you need to witness to and share the gospel with if you don't make judgments about who may or may not be saved? How do you know to help someone at all if you don't make judgements?

Honestly this is one of the most tiresome things to have to repeat over and over and over again. The passage about "not judging" may be the single most misunderstood, misused and openly abused passages in the entire Bible. People know the one single verse, but never bother to read the next several verses after it that expounds on that one verse in great detail. Much less reading all the other NT verses on making judgements and discernment.

To quote John Lennox, "In all religion, acceptance comes at the end based on merit. And if that is religion then Christianity is not religion."

"In Christianity, acceptance comes AT THE BEGINNING."

You have eternal salvation the moment you believe and trust in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus.

(10-13-2025 04:52 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  In my estimation, anyone who votes to elect a Democrat into office and says they are Christian is a liar. You cannot support a vile and sinful platform like theirs and say that you don't agree with their platform but yet are really voting to continue putting them into office.

I agree 100%. You cannot support the evil that the democrat party has become emblematic of and be a true Christian. You can still go to church, you can still pray, you can still tithe, you can do all the things Christians do except lie your way into heaven. If you vote democrat you are supporting evil, it's just that simple. You cannot support evil and be Christian.

(10-13-2025 05:08 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 04:42 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  You don't act like one here.

He lies when the truth would fit better.

Like so many of them do...

(10-13-2025 06:05 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  Bally, you're out of your element.

Funny thing about that is he's the only one who remains unaware of it.

(10-14-2025 04:59 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  To quote John Lennox, "In all religion, acceptance comes at the end based on merit. And if that is religion then Christianity is not religion."

"In Christianity, acceptance comes AT THE BEGINNING."

You have eternal salvation the moment you believe and trust in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus.

I thank God every morning and every night for the sacrifice of his son so that our sins may be forgiven.

The last thing I say when saying my prayers is "Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee and I detest all of my since because of Thy just punishment, but most of all because they offend Thee my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin."

That last sentence is SO hard to live up to but I'm trying harder than ever before.

(10-14-2025 06:16 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(10-14-2025 04:59 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  To quote John Lennox, "In all religion, acceptance comes at the end based on merit. And if that is religion then Christianity is not religion."

"In Christianity, acceptance comes AT THE BEGINNING."

You have eternal salvation the moment you believe and trust in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus.

I thank God every morning and every night for the sacrifice of his son so that our sins may be forgiven.

The last thing I say when saying my prayers is "Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee and I detest all of my since because of Thy just punishment, but most of all because they offend Thee my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin."

That last sentence is SO hard to live up to but I'm trying harder than ever before.

AMEN brother.

The Evangelical doctrine of salvation doesn't match that of other Christian religions. The Catholic/Orthodox/Lutheran/Calvinist/Anglican traditions that fed into Evangelicalism all differed from them. While they all agree Christ was needed for salvation and Christ died for salvation, they went further than Evangelicals. While Evangelicals quote Paul's "Confess with your mouth ... believe in your heart" as the way to salvation, the other traditions quote other scripture and require more.

(10-14-2025 04:59 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  To quote John Lennox, "In all religion, acceptance comes at the end based on merit. And if that is religion then Christianity is not religion."

"In Christianity, acceptance comes AT THE BEGINNING."

You have eternal salvation the moment you believe and trust in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus.

I don't believe I have ever quite thought about it in that context, but that is a very enlightened analytical observation about faith.

(10-14-2025 07:58 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(10-14-2025 04:59 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  To quote John Lennox, "In all religion, acceptance comes at the end based on merit. And if that is religion then Christianity is not religion."

"In Christianity, acceptance comes AT THE BEGINNING."

You have eternal salvation the moment you believe and trust in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus.

I don't believe I have ever quite thought about it in that context, but that is a very enlightened analytical observation about faith.

Yes, it is, and the same here. To such an extent as I have tried at other times in my life, my thought process was exactly the opposite of that last sentence and more in line with the first.

(10-13-2025 04:42 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 02:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 10:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 10:16 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-13-2025 09:34 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Trump is a, you are who you make yourself person. The idea of heaven being a gift thru Christ suffering as an atonement for what you do is very strange to him.

I pray the day comes when he can make that step of faith, but it will be very hard for him to do.

Agreed, but I believe that ship has long since sailed.

He's the antithesis to pretty much everything Christian.

Doubtful he's ever read The Bible and he likely has no prayer life. Doubtful he's ever sought forgiveness for his sins...if he can even acknowledge he's a sinner. It's clear he worships money and power and he hardly ever goes to church outside of the yearly prayer breakfast photo-ops and the random funeral.

It's really pretty sad that the Christian establishment just ignores all that and embraces him pretty much solely because he used them on their one key issue, abortion. And pretty sure he's still pro-choice as he was back in the day. Heck, that same establishment seemed to call out a guy like Biden, when it's more than evident Biden at least made attempts to be a good Christian.

Its pretty sad that you comment on Christians when you don't understand them. You certainly don't understand Biden either.

I suggest you look up Cyrus the Great who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem.

Born into a Christian home with Christian parents and family, and went to church my whole life. I understand Christians just fine.

You don't act like one here.

Guilty. I'm a sinner.

And in case you haven't noticed, most all the Christians here don't act like it either.