If you look at the post- merger divisions, the Houston Oilers in the AFC Central is an odd fit. Putting the Baltimore Colts is the AFC East with teams they had Zero history with seems odd too.

What if instead they put Houston with the AFL brethren in the AFC West and slotted the Colts in the Central with the other two crossover teams and the young Bengals franchise?

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami
AFC Central: Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati
AFC West: Houston, KC, Denver, Oakland, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas, St Louis
NFC Central: Detroit, Chicago, Green Bay, Minnesota
NFC West: Atlanta, New Orleans, LA, SF

When the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Seattle Seahawks enter the league the AFC West is already at 5 so they end up in the NFC West instead. TB ends up in the AFC East with the instate Miami Dolphins

In the 90s, things get interesting for Jacksonville and Carolina. The league surely can’t put another FL team in the AFC so Jacksonville heads to the only open slot in the NFC—NFC Central. That lands Carolina in the AFC Central.

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami, *Tampa Bay*
AFC Central: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, *Indianapolis*, *Carolina*
AFC West: *Houston*, KC, Denver, LA Raiders, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas, Arizona
NFC Central: Detroit, Chicago, GB, Minnesota, *Jacksonville*
NFC West: Atlanta, New Orleans, LA Rams, SF, *Seattle*

The old Browns relocation to Baltimore and then the creation of the Houston Texans puts the 2002 edition of the league at:

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami,
AFC North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, *Indianapolis*,
AFC South: *Carolina*, *Tampa Bay*, *Tennessee*, *Baltimore*
AFC West: KC, Denver, Oakland, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas
NFC North: Detroit, Chicago, GB, Minnesota
NFC South: *Jacksonville*, *Houston*, Atlanta, New Orleans
NFC West: STL Rams, SF, Seattle, Arizona

I think the NFL has to put the Texas in the AFC, as the AFC/NFC contracts were more separated then. Tampa Bay likely moves over to the NFC - if they can't be in a division with Miami anyway, why share a conference with them?

(06-20-2022 06:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If you look at the post- merger divisions, the Houston Oilers in the AFC Central is an odd fit. Putting the Baltimore Colts is the AFC East with teams they had Zero history with seems odd too.

What if instead they put Houston with the AFL brethren in the AFC West and slotted the Colts in the Central with the other two crossover teams and the young Bengals franchise?

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami
AFC Central: Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati
AFC West: Houston, KC, Denver, Oakland, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas, Atlanta
NFC Central: Detroit, Chicago, Green Bay, Minnesota
NFC West: St Louis, New Orleans, LA, SF

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That does make more sense, but I would have done one other thing: move Atlanta to the NFC East.

Quote:When the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Seattle Seahawks enter the league the AFC West is already at 5 so they end up in the NFC West instead. TB ends up in the AFC East with the instate Miami Dolphins

In the 90s, things get interesting for Jacksonville and Carolina. The league surely can’t put another FL team in the AFC so Jacksonville heads to the only open slot in the NFC—NFC Central. That lands Carolina in the AFC Central.

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami, *Tampa Bay*
AFC Central: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, *Indianapolis*, *Carolina*
AFC West: *Houston*, KC, Denver, LA Raiders, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas, *Atlanta *
NFC Central: Detroit, Chicago, GB, Minnesota, *Jacksonville*
NFC West:* Arizona*, New Orleans, LA Rams, SF, *Seattle*

The old Browns relocation to Baltimore and then the creation of the Houston Texans puts the 2002 edition of the league at:

AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY Jets, Miami,
AFC North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, *Indianapolis*,
AFC South: *Carolina*, *Tampa Bay*, *Tennessee*, *Baltimore*
AFC West: KC, Denver, Oakland, San Diego

NFC East: NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Dallas
NFC North: Detroit, Chicago, GB, Minnesota
NFC South: *Jacksonville*, *Houston*, *Atlanta*, New Orleans
NFC West: LA Rams, SF, Seattle, *Arizona*

I wonder if Atlanta & St Louis trading places a long time ago would have kept the Cardinals in St Louis.

There has been a few teams switching conferences. I think I’d like to see something like this (assuming we keep the AFC/NFC):

AFC
East: Buffalo, New England, New York, New York
>Northeast
North: Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh
> Great Lakes East
South: Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Tennessee
> South Central
West: Arizona, Denver, Kansas City, Las Vegas
> Southwest

NFC
East: Baltimore, Carolina, Philadelphia, Washington
> Mid-Atlantic
North: Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota
> Great Lakes West
South: Atlanta, Jacksonville, Miami, Tampa Bay
> Southeast
West: Los Angeles, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle
> Pacific Coast

Would they ever consider going East / West format like NBA & NHL. I like that set-up better. AFC East, NFC west.

Since we’re talking historical changes, I feel like this deserves a bump

I'd say go full geographic, but within the conferences as they were constituted in 1970.

AFC East: Boston Patriots, Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, New York Jets
AFC Central: Baltimore Colts, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC West: Denver Broncos, Houston Oilers, Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders, San Diego Chargers

NFC East: Atlanta Falcons, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
NFC Central: Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, Minnesota Vikings, St. Louis Cardinals
NFC West: Dallas Cowboys, Los Angeles Rams, New Orleans Saints, San Francisco 49ers

In 1976, Tampa Bay joins the AFC East and Seattle the NFC West, as Muskie has it. None of the relocations between 1970 and 2002 require teams to switch divisions/conferences, though the Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals remaining in the NFC Central is awkward. Then in 1995, Carolina joins the AFC Central and Jacksonville joins the NFC East. Before the 2002 realignment, we have this:

AFC East: Buffalo Bills, Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots, New York Jets, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
AFC Central: Baltimore Ravens, Carolina Panthers, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC West: Denver Broncos, Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders, San Diego Chargers, Tennessee Titans

NFC East: Atlanta Falcons, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
NFC Central: Arizona Cardinals, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, Minnesota Vikings
NFC West: Dallas Cowboys, New Orleans Saints, San Francisco 49ers, Seattle Seahawks, St. Louis Rams

And in 2002:

AFC East: Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, New England Patriots, New York Jets
AFC North: Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC South: Carolina Panthers, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans
AFC West: Denver Broncos, Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders, San Diego Chargers

NFC East: Atlanta Falcons, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Washington Redskins
NFC North: Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, Minnesota Vikings
NFC South: Dallas Cowboys, Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars, New Orleans Saints
NFC West: Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, Seattle Seahawks, St. Louis Rams

Which is the same as Muskie's, except Baltimore and Miami swapped divisions, as did Atlanta and Dallas. My thinking on the former difference is that Miami and Tampa Bay could easily have developed a strong regional rivalry in the same division and so may want to stay together, even if moving to a new division. The latter difference is simply due to the original merger lineup being different.

I think you could sell swapping the Baltimore Ravens and Miami Dolphins—by that point, the Fins would have a quarter century of history with the instate Buccaneers and preserving that rivalry might be more significant than their ties to the Patriots/Jets/Bills.

There’s no way the Cowboys agree to leave the NFC East. Jerry was way too influential to let that happen and he strongly valued those east coast ties.

(07-13-2025 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you could sell swapping the Baltimore Ravens and Miami Dolphins—by that point, the Fins would have a quarter century of history with the instate Buccaneers and preserving that rivalry might be more significant than their ties to the Patriots/Jets/Bills.

There’s no way the Cowboys agree to leave the NFC East. Jerry was way too influential to let that happen and he strongly valued those east coast ties.

See, in my timeline, Dallas was placed in the West when the leagues merged in 1970. Recall that in reality, the original alignment of the NFC was literally pulled out of a hat (or bowl), with only one of the five setups having Dallas in the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL%E2%80%..._agreement

Note that the only multi-team groupings preserved in all five proposals were NYG/PHI/WAS, CHI/GB, and LA/SF. So it seems perfectly plausible that they could have decided on an alignment like the one I proposed here.

(07-13-2025 11:53 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(07-13-2025 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you could sell swapping the Baltimore Ravens and Miami Dolphins—by that point, the Fins would have a quarter century of history with the instate Buccaneers and preserving that rivalry might be more significant than their ties to the Patriots/Jets/Bills.

There’s no way the Cowboys agree to leave the NFC East. Jerry was way too influential to let that happen and he strongly valued those east coast ties.

See, in my timeline, Dallas was placed in the West when the leagues merged in 1970. Recall that in reality, the original alignment of the NFC was literally pulled out of a hat (or bowl), with only one of the five setups having Dallas in the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL%E2%80%..._agreement

Note that the only multi-team groupings preserved in all five proposals were NYG/PHI/WAS, CHI/GB, and LA/SF. So it seems perfectly plausible that they could have decided on an alignment like the one I proposed here.

If the Cowboys have been in the NFC West since 1970, then moving them to the new NFC South in 2002 probably isn’t an obstacle then.

(07-13-2025 05:20 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(07-13-2025 11:53 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(07-13-2025 11:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you could sell swapping the Baltimore Ravens and Miami Dolphins—by that point, the Fins would have a quarter century of history with the instate Buccaneers and preserving that rivalry might be more significant than their ties to the Patriots/Jets/Bills.

There’s no way the Cowboys agree to leave the NFC East. Jerry was way too influential to let that happen and he strongly valued those east coast ties.

See, in my timeline, Dallas was placed in the West when the leagues merged in 1970. Recall that in reality, the original alignment of the NFC was literally pulled out of a hat (or bowl), with only one of the five setups having Dallas in the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL%E2%80%..._agreement

Note that the only multi-team groupings preserved in all five proposals were NYG/PHI/WAS, CHI/GB, and LA/SF. So it seems perfectly plausible that they could have decided on an alignment like the one I proposed here.

If the Cowboys have been in the NFC West since 1970, then moving them to the new NFC South in 2002 probably isn’t an obstacle then.

I figure in the alternate timeline, there would have developed a strong Cowboys/Saints rivalry, so keeping them together would be important. Add in a new regional rival in the form of the Houston Texans, and Dallas is sitting pretty in the NFC South.

One thought—would the then ST LOUIS Rams rather go to the NFC South with their 30 yr old rivals Dallas and NO or stick with the NFC West with SF and Seattle? As an existing franchise, if they wanted to go to the South, I could see the expansion Houston Texans getting forced to go to the NFC West.

Geographically, St Louis and Houston would make sense in that South division

(07-14-2025 08:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  One thought—would the then ST LOUIS Rams rather go to the NFC South with their 30 yr old rivals Dallas and NO or stick with the NFC West with SF and Seattle? As an existing franchise, if they wanted to go to the South, I could see the expansion Houston Texans getting forced to go to the NFC West.

Geographically, St Louis and Houston would make sense in that South division

The Rams had moved from LA to St. Louis only 7 years before the 2002 realignment. Their ties to the Pacific coast, in particular the 49ers (which pre-date those with the Cowboys and Saints), may have been sufficient for the Rams to feel comfortable remaining in the NFC West post-realignment.

I guess it comes down to which pair of division mates the Rams organization wanted to hitch their wagon to. I have to think that they would still be in that honeymoon period and the Greatest Show of Turf was running strong. I give it better than a 50/50 chance they’d want to lean towards the Cetral time zone.

Ironically, when the Rams returned to LA, it would then create geographically wonky divisions

Here’s another retrospective idea—the merged league decides not to maintain an NFC/AFC divide but instead opts for a mix of geography and history

NFL Pacific: SD, LA, OAK, SF
NFL West: DEN, KC, HOU, DAL
NFL Midwest: MIN, GB, CHI, DET, STL

NFL Northeast: NE, BUF, NYJ, MIA
NFL East: NYG, PHI, WAS, ATL, NO
NFL Central: BAL, PIT, CLE, CIN

Seattle enters the league in the Pacific; Tampa in the Northeast.

The twin additions of CAR and JAX creates a conundrum and requires someone to move to the Western Conference. NO volunteers to join the division of DAL, HOU, KC, & DEN. CAR joins the East; JAX joins the Central.

For realignment to 32:
NFL Pacific: SD, SEA, OAK, SF
NFL West: DEN, KC, ARZ, DAL
NFL Midwest: MIN, GB, CHI, DET
NFL Southwest: STL, HOU, NO, TEN

NFL Northeast: NE, BUF, NYJ, BAL
NFL East: NYG, PHI, WAS, ATL
NFL Central: IND, PIT, CLE, CIN
NFL Southeast: CAR, JAX, MIA, TB