BODYCAM: Tennessee police suspected Kilmar Abrego Garcia of human trafficking in 2022 traffic stop

(05-01-2025 10:56 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(05-01-2025 09:10 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Inane rhetoric.

Along with some demonstrable falsehoods.

Perfect fodder for the slow witted.

"20 million in with no process" has zero to do with the issue of due process overall.

Might as well be "20,000 speeders with no process, they cant enjoy due process when charged".

I can go on. Im glad you got a stiffie for the stupid rhetorical drivel like that.

"pick out every single person and go through years upon years upon years of paperwork, a" -- nope. doensnt need 'years and years'. Far rom it.

Sugar water cool words aimed at the enjoyment of those who wouldnt rather bother with facts, Again -- glad it got you a stiffie there, pardner.

And more.... but you get the picture.

This right here is why you and so many on the left are wrong. Distinction matters.

Yes, distinction does and can matter, and facts matter. Rhetoric typically doesn't.

Quote:Your speeder reference is an incredibly failed and flawed analogy because American drivers aren’t creating national security risks or intentional harms against other people.

A speeder isnt creating intentional harms against other people? Really? Minimizing harm against other people is the *sole* reason *for* speeding statutes.

And great -- the people here are creating a security risk. That still doesnt short circuit the requirement of due process. In the slightest.

Great, just lets up the ante here. Lets take a small town (30,000 people) and create the biggest, baddest, criminal organization in the town. Murder rates miles through the roof.

That. Still. Doenst. Remove. Due. Process. Concerns.

Stuff as fundamental as due process can really only be messed with the *most* extreme emergencies. Yeah, active insurrection and the like. Like really active. When Posse Comitatus is removed.

And even in the times in the modern existence of our country *when* Posse Comitatus was sidetracked -- that *still* hasnt removed the concerns for due process.

Quote:But even with that analogy playing it out if the local or state government illegally paid a contractor to come up with new speed limits and then further illegally implemented the speed traps all those cases would be universally thrown out. And so that’s the same thing we’re trying to do with the illegal way in which the prior administration let these people in. You know throw them out. But your analogy is asinine in the first place.

Yes, illegal implementation of a law does lead to removal of convictions of that law. That isnt the case here. The case you are trying to make is an improper instantiation (loosening) of a law should allow the government to, after the fact, simply arrest everyone who was speeding for their previous actions. And that isnt the end of what you say above. You add that the arrest and ticketing for people under the old law that should have happened, should occur with zero access to any process.

Sorry, thats retarded.

Yes, the Biden immigration regime was horrendous. That isnt a reason to shitcan fundamental rights. End of story.

Quote:But more important the origin story here is more than unequivocally relevant. This isn’t a situation where this country ended up with a few thousand or even few million people here and there getting in over a 10 to 20 year period. This was the largest human smuggling operation in global history - good portion of it literally directed and overseen by the USG with all of it at least enabled by the Biden regime. We literally handed criminal organizations and cartels a new line of business and made them more powerful than they’ve ever been.

Cool. Lets analogize the above, for clarity.

Lets make the subject 'really bad fing gangs in the US -- generally, not necessarily aliens'. Your excuse is now 'since the previous governing body was bad, terrible, neglectful (or whatever you wish) -- the gangs grew. Now that the governance has changed, the bad nasty gangs are even worse than before. Since they are worse, we should simply shitcan fundamental rights to combat the new bad gangs..

Look, hate to tell you --- due process isnt a fing popularity contest. It typically is enabled the most by the most reviled. But that is the structure, and that structure allows it to be used by anyone -- including those that shouldnt normally need it.

Same story for the 1st Amendment. Not a popularity contest. It allows the shitbirds who like 'The Turner Diaries' to read and possess 'The Turner Diaries.' Same for Mao's little red book and Mein Kampf.

The argument that some bad things flourished under a previous policy, absent an explicit existential threat to the country, is grounds for shitcanning due process (and other issues related to the subject) is the asinine position.

Quote: And you can’t even wrap your feeble mind around the heinous things they’ve done or let such atrocious acts cloud your judgement long enough to realize the horrific things that the US is literally responsible for happening. So you could not be more wrong on that point. It absolutely does matter and I’m still slightly amazed the lengths the left is going to climb this particular hill to die on.

Go piss on yourself with the 'feeble mind' crap, sparky.

Yeah, gangs and groups can absolutely do ****** things. In the 40s and 50s there were collections of gangs that did just as bad, maybe worse. Same with the pencil neck KKKers in the 60s as a group, the Weathermen in the late 60s, the Black Panthers, the fktard McVeigh type folks in the 90s.

Im not astonished that a deep blooded LE type dude wants to wash away due process, let alone any number of impediments to their job.

Yeah, it would be a lot easier to send the paunch belly tin stars with country fried steak gravy on their shirts in with carte blanche to rid groups of folks simply because -- without regard to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 14th, or a few other provisions of the document that matters. Sorry those are impediments to that enforcement of law by random decree. They exist for a reason. I suggest you actually adhere to that.

Yeah, how fing terrible that folks actually subscribe to the Bill of rights. What a horrific, untenable, feeble minded and asinine position.

(05-01-2025 11:22 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Three, our friend Clarence Darrow, aka Tanqtonic, claims he's not on the left,

Yep.

Quote:but he hates Trump,

Liking trump == conservative? Seriously?

Quote: thinks J6ers got due process

Last I saw they were fully informed of the charges against them,
had the right to trial in an impartial tribunal,
had the right to jury,
had the right to representation,
had the right to challenge the evidence against them,
had the right to present evidence that tended their way.

Yeah, the j6ers got due process. Care to negate any of the above?

Quote:and should not have been pardoned,

And you are making that up.

I have zero problem with pardons for those convicted of solely trespassing style offenses.

I am not in favor of those pardons for those convicted of violent offenses, especially those directed at LE.

I am especially not in favor of pardons for those convicted of seditious conspiracy.

Claro, mi amigo?

Quote:and thinks due process is hard and fast for all situations, regardless of circumstances.

In the same manner I am for protecting any of the rights and freedoms defined in the Constitution, mind you. But somehow due process is now a bad thing to defend. Cool cool.

Quote:He thinks he is smarter than everybody else b/c he is an attorney (ambulance chaser). He has a terrible bedside manner, full of arrogance and disdain for opposing opinions.

Never 'chased ambulances' (or any PI work) there, compadre. But feel free to make up crap as you usually do.

And yes, I do treat people that make up crap with disdain. That deserves it. Bummer.

Quote:For him, everything appears black and white with no extenuating circumstances.

Cool, another 'pull **** out of thin air' statement. You are getting good at that.

Quote: He's like the Captain of the Titanic, steering right into the iceberg and killing most of the passengers. But by golly, he is the Defender of Due Process, enlightening all of us moronic heathens with his blinding legal brilliance.

Im not the one making **** up out of thin air, champ. But, even in the context of your whiny rant above in this post -- you go full bore at that.

Quote:Good thing he isn't president. The country would be beyond salvage by now.

Im crushed, champ. Do you feel better now that you have your whiny temper tantrum done with? Hopefully it helped.

(05-02-2025 07:07 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(05-01-2025 11:22 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Three, our friend Clarence Darrow, aka Tanqtonic, claims he's not on the left, but he hates Trump, thinks J6ers got due process and should not have been pardoned, and thinks due process is hard and fast for all situations, regardless of circumstances.

He thinks he is smarter than everybody else b/c he is an attorney (ambulance chaser). He has a terrible bedside manner, full of arrogance and disdain for opposing opinions.

For him, everything appears black and white with no extenuating circumstances. He's like the Captain of the Titanic, steering right into the iceberg and killing most of the passengers. But by golly, he is the Defender of Due Process, enlightening all of us moronic heathens with his blinding legal brilliance.

Good thing he isn't president. The country would be beyond salvage by now.

We should be grateful for our newfound enlightenment, no? Do you not feel more educated on these subjects by the Britannica level knowledge and postings we've all been afforded to experience? Personally, I'm thinking perhaps we should just say thank you. And maybe even send a gift to help support his argument style? We could all chip in and have one of these sent to him...

Sorry, your soapbox yelling of generalities on why due process should be **** on is way beyond stupid.

Especially noted when you kneejerked a 'blatantly illegal and unconstitutional' comment on news of an injunction -- when you didnt even fing realize the order simply tracked the statute. Yeah, you are *quite* the informed..... Lolz.

Massive demonstration of your grasp of facts there, sparkles.

I would have hoped for more from a member of LE. Guess not.

You be you.

(05-02-2025 09:47 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  BODYCAM: Tennessee police suspected Kilmar Abrego Garcia of human trafficking in 2022 traffic stop

The mid term commercials are making themselves.

My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

He’s got two deportations orders already.

Sooo, he’s back home where he belongs.

Shocking and Disturbing New Audio of Abrego-Garcia's Wife Leaks, Paints Democrats Further Into a Corner

Quote:There's been a recent explosion of news surrounding the background of deported El Salvadorian man and suspected MS-13 member Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, and a newly uncovered audio recording of his wife is only going to paint Democrats further into a corner.

As RedState reported on Thursday, body cam footage showed the once-illegal immigrant being pulled over by the Tennessee Highway Patrol while driving a convicted human smuggler's car. In the vehicle were eight other people, and Abrego-Garcia had $1400 cash on him, which was suspected to have been his payment. He was eventually released after Joe Biden's ICE never showed up to detain him on what would have presumably been federal charges.

That bit of Abrego-Garcia's history came after prior revelations that his wife, Jennifer Vasquez Sura, had filed multiple restraining orders against him for domestic violence. But while she glossed over those when asked, neither denying nor confirming the abuse, audio shows she directly accused him of repeated acts of domestic violence, including slapping and hitting. A fair warning, it's a disturbing listen.

VASQUEZ SURA: I came to fill out a protective order. I think it was in December, but I didn't show up to the court because his family, like, washed my brain telling me that his dad was sick and not to do it. So I didn't do anything, but after that, it was, like, I would call the police, I have a lot of police reports, and I kept trying to get to the door basement to try to open the door, and then, like, he pushed me so then when I was able to get outside to get a phone, I called 911 from a disconnected phone.

Now, they took a long time to get to the House. It was probably like 20 or 30 minutes. So I saw a neighbor walking his dog, and I opened the door, and I was like, "Help." And then, when he heard me, like, he grabbed me by my hair and then he slapped me, and then the neighbor, like, he didn't know what to do. He didn't know what to react. I have pictures of the evidence, like all the bruises, because even on Wednesday, he hit me right around 3:00 in the morning. He would just wake up and, like, hit me. And last Saturday, for my daughter's birthday party, before I went to my daughter's birthday party, he slapped me three times, and last week I did call the police, my sister called the police because he hit me in front of my sister.

That's honestly hard to listen to, and it paints a picture of a violent man who never should have been allowed to stay in the United States in the first place. The probable gang affiliation was bad enough, as was the alleged human smuggling, but beating your wife is another level of depravity. That she's now standing by him only makes this situation more disturbing, and it reeks of Stockholm syndrome.

Before anyone criticizes her, though, consider the spot she's been put in. Given that Democrats have chosen to make Abrego-Garcia a symbol of their resistance, can anyone blame her for going along with the narrative, given all she's been through? Imagine how she'd be treated if she came out and spoke plainly about her husband? So while I think it'd be safer and healthier for Vasquez Sura to face what happened to her head-on, I tend to give deference to anyone who has gone through something so traumatic.

Returning to the politics of this, they have become completely toxic for Democrats. They rushed to elevate Abrego-Garcia as their preeminent issue without even considering that he was the bad guy that the Trump administration claimed. You had senators and congressional members actually fly to El Salvador to demand his release while continually describing him as just a "Maryland father."

I'm not even giving a commentary on "due process" or whatever arguments may exist about how this deportation happened. I'm recognizing that Democrats could have picked a far better example if this was the road they wanted to go down. Instead, they latched onto an alleged gang member and domestic abuser, and now, they are stuck with him. There's no pivot where they can get away from these optics.

With that said, the optics are secondary to the violence committed against Vazquez Sura. I sincerely hope she gets the help she needs and that she's not glossing over the abuse she suffered because of political pressure.

(05-02-2025 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

And that would be fine if there wasn’t over 2 million backlogged cases which will take years to process.

Especially when the same people currently in charge sounded the alarm bells years ago about how this issue would manifest itself.

Again…the Biden administration is 100% the blame here for not even attempting to stop them.

It was a hell of a hill to die on, Libturds.....

(05-02-2025 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It was a hell of a hill to die on, Libturds.....

Glad you think so highly of due process there, champ.

I'll die on that hill every day of the week to keep it strong. As opposed to the kneejerk pinhead who think it a good thing to dismiss.

As I would for pretty much all the liberties enshrined in the Constitution. Glad you think otherwise, champ. As always -- you be you.

(05-02-2025 12:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It was a hell of a hill to die on, Libturds.....

Glad you think so highly of due process there, champ.

I'll die on that hill every day of the week to keep it strong. As opposed to the kneejerk pinhead who think it a good thing to dismiss.

As I would for pretty much all the liberties enshrined in the Constitution. Glad you think otherwise, champ. As always -- you be you.

Those ushered in by Biden who do not already have an asylum claim is subject to and eligible for expedited removal. Anyone here has already had a chance to make that claim. Frankly, if they didn't do it soon after they arrived then claims for asylum are BS anyway. No further due process is necessary. The law for illegal aliens is not the same for citizen charged with a criminal offense. One time let it sync in.

The Constitution of the United States was designed to serve its citizens, affirming in its first three words, "We the People," that the government exists to serve its people.
The document defines the principal organs of government and their jurisdictions, as well as the basic rights of citizens.
It establishes a federal system of government with a Congress consisting of a Senate and a House of Representatives, affirming the status of Congress as the "First Branch" of the federal government.
This structure ensures that the power of the union is vested in the people, rather than in the states alone.

(05-02-2025 12:12 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

And that would be fine if there wasn’t over 2 million backlogged cases which will take years to process.

Especially when the same people currently in charge sounded the alarm bells years ago about how this issue would manifest itself.

Again…the Biden administration is 100% the blame here for not even attempting to stop them.

This is just ridiculous. This didn't start or end with Biden. Our immigration laws have been a mess for decades and both parties are to blame. Until Congress addresses this, nothing much is going to change.

(05-02-2025 12:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 12:12 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

And that would be fine if there wasn’t over 2 million backlogged cases which will take years to process.

Especially when the same people currently in charge sounded the alarm bells years ago about how this issue would manifest itself.

Again…the Biden administration is 100% the blame here for not even attempting to stop them.

This is just ridiculous. This didn't start or end with Biden. Our immigration laws have been a mess for decades and both parties are to blame. Until Congress addresses this, nothing much is going to change.

It already has changed doofus - illegal border crossings are down over 95% since the admin changed over. All it took was someone willing to enforce the law.

(05-02-2025 12:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 12:12 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

And that would be fine if there wasn’t over 2 million backlogged cases which will take years to process.

Especially when the same people currently in charge sounded the alarm bells years ago about how this issue would manifest itself.

Again…the Biden administration is 100% the blame here for not even attempting to stop them.

This is just ridiculous. This didn't start or end with Biden. Our immigration laws have been a mess for decades and both parties are to blame. Until Congress addresses this, nothing much is going to change.

Yes he is.

The current situation was exacerbated by Biden. Reversed Remain in Mexico, creating pathways for 10 million illegals, changing catch and release practices…all incentivized more illegal immigration.

COVID did throw some things off, but that also meant less illegals at the border too.

But his inaction and carelessness created the current environment we see today. It cannot be compared to anything we saw under Obama and Trump 1.0.

71 pages. Who hasn't been given his/her due process rights? And for what purported crime?

(05-02-2025 12:44 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 12:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 12:14 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  It was a hell of a hill to die on, Libturds.....

Glad you think so highly of due process there, champ.

I'll die on that hill every day of the week to keep it strong. As opposed to the kneejerk pinhead who think it a good thing to dismiss.

As I would for pretty much all the liberties enshrined in the Constitution. Glad you think otherwise, champ. As always -- you be you.

Those ushered in by Biden who do not already have an asylum claim is subject to and eligible for expedited removal. Anyone here has already had a chance to make that claim. Frankly, if they didn't do it soon after they arrived then claims for asylum are BS anyway. No further due process is necessary. The law for illegal aliens is not the same for citizen charged with a criminal offense. One time let it sync in.

And I told you before:

a) if there is a removal order -- ship them.
b) if they are subject to eRH -- then that is the path. And fulfills sufficient due process.

Third time Ive stated this, dude.

Yes, it sank in. Im sorry that you didnt bother to read it. Ive never said "law for illegal aliens is not the same for citizen charged with a criminal offense.". So please stop with the strawman stuff.

And by the way -- to repeat the ****** 'tude embodied in the the strawman, the repeating of things we have discussed, and the snide ass 'sync in' --- its is "sink", not "sync".

(05-02-2025 12:12 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:59 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-02-2025 11:52 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  My biggest problem with this entire issue is that the left will do whatever it takes to keep people like this in the country … even if it produces more negative outcomes for women and children.

They’re willing to die on these hills, just to spite Trump.

It’s not about virtue, or being pro Constitution (which they view as a roadblock for many of their agenda items) …

If you take the current liberal orthodoxy and take it to its most extreme view… you get a multicultural border less nanny state with violent criminals dictating public policy. Why do people side with this?

For me, I only want him to have his due process under the current law. And if it's found he has to go, then by all means ship him out.

That's it.

And that would be fine if there wasn’t over 2 million backlogged cases which will take years to process.

Especially when the same people currently in charge sounded the alarm bells years ago about how this issue would manifest itself.

Again…the Biden administration is 100% the blame here for not even attempting to stop them.

In order --

so now if there are too many to deal with, just ignore civil liberties? And sorry, there are multiples of methods to help the process simply via the executive branch. And scads more if/when Congress (last I saw all Republican) got off their ass.

And yes, there were people sounding alarm bells. Absolutely. Still doesnt change the equation for application of civil liberties.

And yes, the Biden administration carries a massively heavy burden of the blame. Absolutely. How does this change the equation as to whether to apply civil liberties?