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Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
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bobdizole Online
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Post: #81
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 08:25 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This "age of the earth" argument is just a convenient diversion for the creation deniers. Don't really care how old the earth is and aint nobody that knows for sure anyway.

I have yet to get an intelligent answer on how the "big bang" happened. What was there before the big bang??? How do you get something... from nothing???

You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes
08-03-2024 08:07 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 08:07 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes

Ape cheomosomes are minimally ditferent. Maybe they box women too.
08-03-2024 08:43 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 08:43 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 08:07 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes

Ape cheomosomes are minimally ditferent. Maybe they box women too.

kangaroo sammiches ... 03-wink
08-03-2024 08:53 PM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 08:25 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  This "age of the earth" argument is just a convenient diversion for the creation deniers. Don't really care how old the earth is and aint nobody that knows for sure anyway.

I have yet to get an intelligent answer on how the "big bang" happened. What was there before the big bang??? How do you get something... from nothing???

You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

One species can not become another through any process. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE THAT COMES CLOSE TO PROVING THAT.

Species can be similar and have similar traits but not change into another.

A TRex can never become a chicken.

And if apes evolved into humans, why are there still apes?
08-03-2024 09:03 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 09:03 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

One species can not become another through any process. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE THAT COMES CLOSE TO PROVING THAT.

Species can be similar and have similar traits but not change into another.

A TRex can never become a chicken.

And if apes evolved into humans, why are there still apes?

Show me the quote from any scientific publication thats says apes evolved into humans.

https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

You should enjoy the homo erectus section
https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/hum...mo-erectus
Snicker

If you are successful i will tell you whether the chicken or the egg came first.

Europe is becoming globo homos

[Image: 65dcb643d7c75.webp]

All caught up now?

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2024 09:36 PM by shere khan.)
08-03-2024 09:24 PM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 09:24 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 09:03 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

One species can not become another through any process. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE THAT COMES CLOSE TO PROVING THAT.

Species can be similar and have similar traits but not change into another.

A TRex can never become a chicken.

And if apes evolved into humans, why are there still apes?

Show me the quote from any scientific publication thats says a

Show me one ounce of evidence. THERE IS NONE. Only this animal has five fingers and five toes, two eyes and hips that are similar so one must have evolved from the other. Doesn’t mean one was once the other. So show me just one scientific paper that shows irrefutable proof of one species becoming another. I promise that you can’t. But keep on believing that a man can have a baby if you want because they are both just as impossible.
Life didn’t just appear. Just as an F22 didn’t appear after a tornado blew through a trailer park. (Actually an F22 is nowhere in the same galaxy in complexity compared to a living single cell organism.) If it did the living cell didn’t just decide to multiply by ripping itself in two equal pieces. Nor did two of those pieces decide to gang up together and then gang up some more. Neither did they just learn to communicate to form organs and tissues. So from there to form a conscious aware entity.

No science can nor probably will ever explain how life began. Nor will it ever explain the incredible diversity of life on this planet.
08-03-2024 10:03 PM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
Listen to this guy if you want to question what they tell you and what you think you know. This man has been one of the preeminent molecular chemists alive.



08-03-2024 10:16 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 08:07 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes

The great apes have 24 pair. We have 23 pair. But humans and chimpanzees share almost 99% of DNA. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permane...and-chimps
08-03-2024 10:18 PM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 10:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 08:07 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes

The great apes have 24 pair. We have 23 pair. But humans and chimpanzees share almost 99% of DNA. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permane...and-chimps

I absolutely dare you to google how much that ‘claimed’ 1% is. It will freaking blow your mind how much information it is.

Mutations are said to be the reason for so called evolution. The problem is mutations that occur after an organism matures are not generally passed on to the next generation. Mutations that occur in developing organisms generally prove fatal.
08-03-2024 10:27 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #90
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 09:03 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

One species can not become another through any process. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE THAT COMES CLOSE TO PROVING THAT.

Species can be similar and have similar traits but not change into another.

A TRex can never become a chicken.

And if apes evolved into humans, why are there still apes?

Exactly! My point was apes are missing human DNA and they will never manufacture it. Same conclusion as you stated impossible.

Fools Gold to think otherwise.

I sincerely thought this killed the missing link evolution theory. I guess I was wrong. People are going to believe whatever they want regardless.
08-03-2024 11:00 PM
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miko33 Away
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Post: #91
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-02-2024 10:44 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  You're not reading these texts in their original languages. We don't see the changes within the blocks of text that would show different authors. There can be hundreds of years separating the authorship of different parts of the book.


That is exactly what I have spent years now doing Miko, Studying the the Bible in 3 different languages. Both the OT and NT in their original languages and in English.

You on the other hand have never ever read most of it in your own language, much less done years worth of study in original Hebrew or Greek as well. You can't even remotely make an argument yourself you have to link other peoples arguments and speak as vaguely and little as possible because you really know little to nothing about the actual text at all.



(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Not to be mean, but you ARE reading this as if you are a child. Because of the tradition you chose as your lens thru which you interpret the bible, you have to rationalize away obvious inconsistencies. In the 2nd story of creation - for example - you have to say "God brought animals to man to name and find a suitable partner" while in reality it's showing God is creating those animals exactly how he created Adam by bringing them out from the dirt and then Adam is giving them names plus looking for a suitable partner.


A "child" who has studied the text in 3 different languages for many years Miko. Meanwhile you are trying to debate a book you have not even read 90% of in just one language.

Even if you go into this theoretical P or J (Yahwehist) stuff its still just that. A hypothetical THEORY about the original document that is highly questionable, rejected by many scholars and historically about 5 minutes old. What we do KNOW is ancient rabbis universally taught this as ONE creation account, not two. Jesus, the Apostles and the church fathers of the first 2 centuries had the EXACT same Genesis we have today and universally taught it as 100% literal, and NOT 2 different creation accounts. The idea of 2 accounts never even came up until about 150 years ago.

As soon as a someone starts trying to argue man was created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 you know you are in total quackville on this. No honest unbaised person can read the text in either language and say there were different 2 creations of man.

I read Genesis the same way the other 65 books of the Bible read Genesis. I read Genesis and creation the same way Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, James David, Solomon read it. As a LITERAL first hand account of creation. There are 65 books of the Bible that follow Genesis and reference and bring up the creation details over and over and over again and not one single time in the entire Bible is it ever presented as a parable or non literal. Every single time its is referenced as being ONE CREATION and 100% literal.

If you were actually reading the text you would know both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say God brought forth every living creature out of the earth (dry land) and out of the ground every beast was formed. And its says this in both languages.

I'm going to be kind here because we both know you are out of your depth on this and forced to take a blind leap of faith over what someone else says that you point to. YOU can't explain or state your position at all, you don't even know what to argue. You just know you have blind faith in this for obvious reasons.

There are a couple of legit places where you can point to possible contradiction in the text of the Bible, THIS AIN'T ONE OF THEM. Its not even close.

You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?
08-03-2024 11:10 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #92
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 06:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 11:55 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Where is this fantasy law written that Genesis is not historical text? (and yes I noticed you are trying to move the goalposts and bring up multiple others things we weren't event talking about)

The ancient rabbis treated Genesis as a historical text, all the OT books treated it as historical text, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all the Apostles treated it as historical text.

Why does it being a historical text threaten you so much?

Why are you so hell bent on disregarding that your Lord and Savior and all His Apostles viewed and taught it as such? Why are you so hell bent on disregarding with God's Word on this topic? You think God has the power to speak time, space, matter and the whole universe into existence but somehow lacks the power to keep a book straight? How silly of a view would that be?


Are you remotely aware of the depth of study and the depth of 2000+ year old manuscripts we have today and the miraculous accuracy that has been maintained? There is no other book in antiquity that even comes close, God CLEARLY preserves His Word as He promised us He would. Why are you so hell bent on attacking that based on nothing but your "feels"?

I've already stated a gazillion times here Genesis is not a salvation issue. But it is an issue that goes directly to the validity of God's Word, which actually can lead to a salvation issue when people begin to disregard whatever in the Bible doesn't suit them.

You seem to have this overwhelming need to go against the words of Jesus, the Apostles and the entire Bible on this so you can pretend its not a historical account and go with mans theories he can't even fully prove.

And NO, the early church of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries did not all accept the 7 additional books, that is just flatly untrue. Those 7 books played virtually no role at all in the early church, they were focused on the 4 Gospels, Acts and the Church epistles. Even if we ignore that and pretend they did they have no bearing on any Christian doctrine at all, its a comeptley meaningless straw man.

I'm not threatened. I don't think your literal interpretation will send you to hell.
But I think you sell the Bible short by being literal. I think its far more amazing than a literal interpretation makes it. It retains all its value as a guide despite imperfect human attempts to copy and translate it.


Your blatantly going out of your way to avoid the point about Genesis and you know it.

Of course there are parables in the Bible and its goes beyond just the massive amount of historical narrative it includes. That was never the point and no one ever argued otherwise. And you know that.

None of it has anything to do with the fact the Genesis is a historical narrative, the entire Bible goes out of the way to show its a historical narrative and Jesus and all that Apostles saw and taught it as historical. Your view is basically arguing that you understand things better today than everyone in the Bible including Jesus who is the creator Himself.
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2024 11:12 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-03-2024 11:11 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #93
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 11:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?


Miko, respectfully your a smart and intelligent person but you really need to drop this because its obviously out of your wheelhouse. Its well known that you don't have to be the worlds sole leading authority in any language to study the Hebrew and Greek in the Bible. Literally every Bible college in the world does this and every preacher who enters such a school does this. And with the internet and its tools that ability has expanded exponentially.

You yourself can pull up an interlinear Bible on your phone right now with massive amounts of tools and study word by word comparing the Hebrew to English or Greek to English, and with a single click showing everywhere in the Bible the word is used, how it is used, how it is used in each language, what the word means down to the root in each language and a host of other tools and info as well on each language and word.

But you are purposely getting totally off point here because you can't defend your point. A person doesn't even need to cross reference and study other languages, just the English alone makes its clear Man was not created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. But I have also studied the Hebrew and its clear no such thing is suggested in the Hebrew either. The idea that there are 2 is (again) about 5 minutes old historically and rejected by a plethora of scholars.

So you can't bluff me on this by saying I haven't read or studied this in the Hebrew because I have. Its you who have not seriously studied the text on this in Hebrew or English, you just place blind faith in people who will make the claim because of your own desire to justify your rejection of the Bible as Gods Word.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2024 07:51 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-03-2024 11:25 PM
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BlueDragon Away
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Post: #94
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 08:07 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 06:26 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 10:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-01-2024 05:42 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(07-31-2024 03:41 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're conflating evolution with theories of origin. They're not the same.

Nice hit and run.

I'd say explain yourself but I know you can't.

There are only two options:

Creation- Explains itself in detail whether you believe it or not.

Evolution - Big bang (that nobody can explain), life on earth is a complete accident, we evolved from monkeys... although there are still monkeys.

The bible has 2 different creation stories. Most people focus on just the first chapter. They don't look at the different creation story in chapter 2 that's obviously different from the first.

Your comments on evolution are...uninformed...so I'll not comment on that.

I thought humans had chromosomes apes don’t so no way can you get evolve when there is a missing link

Apes have chromosomes

Guess I should have clarified my statement. While both have chromosomes Humans have specific ones that allow speech and other mechanisms that Apes don’t have. And that is why apes aren’t advancing.
08-03-2024 11:33 PM
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Post: #95
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 11:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 10:44 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  You're not reading these texts in their original languages. We don't see the changes within the blocks of text that would show different authors. There can be hundreds of years separating the authorship of different parts of the book.


That is exactly what I have spent years now doing Miko, Studying the the Bible in 3 different languages. Both the OT and NT in their original languages and in English.

You on the other hand have never ever read most of it in your own language, much less done years worth of study in original Hebrew or Greek as well. You can't even remotely make an argument yourself you have to link other peoples arguments and speak as vaguely and little as possible because you really know little to nothing about the actual text at all.



(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Not to be mean, but you ARE reading this as if you are a child. Because of the tradition you chose as your lens thru which you interpret the bible, you have to rationalize away obvious inconsistencies. In the 2nd story of creation - for example - you have to say "God brought animals to man to name and find a suitable partner" while in reality it's showing God is creating those animals exactly how he created Adam by bringing them out from the dirt and then Adam is giving them names plus looking for a suitable partner.


A "child" who has studied the text in 3 different languages for many years Miko. Meanwhile you are trying to debate a book you have not even read 90% of in just one language.

Even if you go into this theoretical P or J (Yahwehist) stuff its still just that. A hypothetical THEORY about the original document that is highly questionable, rejected by many scholars and historically about 5 minutes old. What we do KNOW is ancient rabbis universally taught this as ONE creation account, not two. Jesus, the Apostles and the church fathers of the first 2 centuries had the EXACT same Genesis we have today and universally taught it as 100% literal, and NOT 2 different creation accounts. The idea of 2 accounts never even came up until about 150 years ago.

As soon as a someone starts trying to argue man was created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 you know you are in total quackville on this. No honest unbaised person can read the text in either language and say there were different 2 creations of man.

I read Genesis the same way the other 65 books of the Bible read Genesis. I read Genesis and creation the same way Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, James David, Solomon read it. As a LITERAL first hand account of creation. There are 65 books of the Bible that follow Genesis and reference and bring up the creation details over and over and over again and not one single time in the entire Bible is it ever presented as a parable or non literal. Every single time its is referenced as being ONE CREATION and 100% literal.

If you were actually reading the text you would know both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say God brought forth every living creature out of the earth (dry land) and out of the ground every beast was formed. And its says this in both languages.

I'm going to be kind here because we both know you are out of your depth on this and forced to take a blind leap of faith over what someone else says that you point to. YOU can't explain or state your position at all, you don't even know what to argue. You just know you have blind faith in this for obvious reasons.

There are a couple of legit places where you can point to possible contradiction in the text of the Bible, THIS AIN'T ONE OF THEM. Its not even close.

You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?

So, Miko, tell us how you think or believe we got here. To this place and time where we are intellectually trying to solve the mystery of our origin?

While you are to attempt it realize this

Are we the only technological species that has ever arisen?'- Woodruff Sullivan, University of Washington
The result? By applying the new exoplanet data to the universe’s 2 x 10 to the 22nd power stars, Frank and Sullivan find that human civilization is likely to be unique in the cosmos only if the odds of a civilization developing on a habitable planet are less than about one in 10 billion trillion, or one part in 10 to the 22nd power.

This makes me realize we are not here by mistake nor by some fish washing up on shore to become an ape to a man. We are all for a reason I just don’t know what it is.

Christians go on faith? And there has been some archaeological finds that confirm that a lot of things and events in the Bible were factual. So, while not confirming origin not complete fiction.

Science uses carbon dating and some other methods which aren’t 100% accurate either.

We can conclude early man not necessarily cave men did roam the earth.

How long ago? Still, not conclusive.

How old was the Mammoth flash frozen and kept frozen with green vegetation in its mouth and digestive tract. You can’t have a gradual ice age with green vegetation.

Mysteries? Perhaps or just maybe things didn’t occur over the vast periods of time as we are being told.

I mean just look at what’s gone on the last fifty years.
08-03-2024 11:53 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 11:53 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 11:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 10:44 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  You're not reading these texts in their original languages. We don't see the changes within the blocks of text that would show different authors. There can be hundreds of years separating the authorship of different parts of the book.


That is exactly what I have spent years now doing Miko, Studying the the Bible in 3 different languages. Both the OT and NT in their original languages and in English.

You on the other hand have never ever read most of it in your own language, much less done years worth of study in original Hebrew or Greek as well. You can't even remotely make an argument yourself you have to link other peoples arguments and speak as vaguely and little as possible because you really know little to nothing about the actual text at all.



(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Not to be mean, but you ARE reading this as if you are a child. Because of the tradition you chose as your lens thru which you interpret the bible, you have to rationalize away obvious inconsistencies. In the 2nd story of creation - for example - you have to say "God brought animals to man to name and find a suitable partner" while in reality it's showing God is creating those animals exactly how he created Adam by bringing them out from the dirt and then Adam is giving them names plus looking for a suitable partner.


A "child" who has studied the text in 3 different languages for many years Miko. Meanwhile you are trying to debate a book you have not even read 90% of in just one language.

Even if you go into this theoretical P or J (Yahwehist) stuff its still just that. A hypothetical THEORY about the original document that is highly questionable, rejected by many scholars and historically about 5 minutes old. What we do KNOW is ancient rabbis universally taught this as ONE creation account, not two. Jesus, the Apostles and the church fathers of the first 2 centuries had the EXACT same Genesis we have today and universally taught it as 100% literal, and NOT 2 different creation accounts. The idea of 2 accounts never even came up until about 150 years ago.

As soon as a someone starts trying to argue man was created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 you know you are in total quackville on this. No honest unbaised person can read the text in either language and say there were different 2 creations of man.

I read Genesis the same way the other 65 books of the Bible read Genesis. I read Genesis and creation the same way Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, James David, Solomon read it. As a LITERAL first hand account of creation. There are 65 books of the Bible that follow Genesis and reference and bring up the creation details over and over and over again and not one single time in the entire Bible is it ever presented as a parable or non literal. Every single time its is referenced as being ONE CREATION and 100% literal.

If you were actually reading the text you would know both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say God brought forth every living creature out of the earth (dry land) and out of the ground every beast was formed. And its says this in both languages.

I'm going to be kind here because we both know you are out of your depth on this and forced to take a blind leap of faith over what someone else says that you point to. YOU can't explain or state your position at all, you don't even know what to argue. You just know you have blind faith in this for obvious reasons.

There are a couple of legit places where you can point to possible contradiction in the text of the Bible, THIS AIN'T ONE OF THEM. Its not even close.

You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?

So, Miko, tell us how you think or believe we got here. To this place and time where we are intellectually trying to solve the mystery of our origin?

While you are to attempt it realize this

Are we the only technological species that has ever arisen?'- Woodruff Sullivan, University of Washington
The result? By applying the new exoplanet data to the universe’s 2 x 10 to the 22nd power stars, Frank and Sullivan find that human civilization is likely to be unique in the cosmos only if the odds of a civilization developing on a habitable planet are less than about one in 10 billion trillion, or one part in 10 to the 22nd power.

This makes me realize we are not here by mistake nor by some fish washing up on shore to become an ape to a man. We are all for a reason I just don’t know what it is.

Christians go on faith? And there has been some archaeological finds that confirm that a lot of things and events in the Bible were factual. So, while not confirming origin not complete fiction.

Science uses carbon dating and some other methods which aren’t 100% accurate either.

We can conclude early man not necessarily cave men did roam the earth.

How long ago? Still, not conclusive.

How old was the Mammoth flash frozen and kept frozen with green vegetation in its mouth and digestive tract. You can’t have a gradual ice age with green vegetation.

Mysteries? Perhaps or just maybe things didn’t occur over the vast periods of time as we are being told.

I mean just look at what’s gone on the last fifty years.

Maybe none of this shite in this thread happened thetvwsy we think.

None of the theology means anything without faith.

None of the sciences mean anyythijg without data

Ysll are just jerkin off. You cant prove each other wrong.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2024 12:37 AM by shere khan.)
08-04-2024 12:36 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Online
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Post: #97
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-04-2024 12:36 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Maybe none of this shite in this thread happened thetvwsy we think.

None of the theology means anything without faith.

None of the sciences mean anyythijg without data

Ysll are just jerkin off. You cant prove each other wrong.



Shere, if you've read the thread that is the very point many of us have already made mutiple times now. In fact that is kind of the central point many of us continue to make, including the very post you quoted.

You are not disagreeing with us, you are agreeing.

Science will never prove or disprove God and fully convince the world of either view. People have to examine the evidence and be willing to have faith or no faith.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2024 01:01 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
08-04-2024 12:52 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-04-2024 12:52 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-04-2024 12:36 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Maybe none of this shite in this thread happened thetvwsy we think.

None of the theology means anything without faith.

None of the sciences mean anyythijg without data

Ysll are just jerkin off. You cant prove each other wrong.



Shere, if you've read the thread that is the very point many of us have already made mutiple times now. In fact that is kind of the central point many of us continue to make, including the very post you quoted.

You are not disagreeing with us, you are agreeing.

Science will never prove or disprove God and fully convince the world of either view. People have to examine the evidence and be willing to have faith or no faith.

Yeah. Ive worked it all out to satisfy my conscience. Its as assinine to say evolution didnt take place as it is to say the earth is the center of the solar system. Its the height of arrogance and soulless (even worse imo) to suggest god does not exist.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2024 02:30 AM by shere khan.)
08-04-2024 02:29 AM
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miko33 Away
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Post: #99
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 11:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 11:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?


Miko, respectfully your a smart and intelligent person but you really need to drop this because its obviously out of your wheelhouse. Its well known that you don't have to be the worlds sole leading authority in any language to study the Hebrew and Greek in the Bible. Literally every Bible college in the world does this and every preacher who enters such a school does this. And with the internet and its tools that ability has expanded exponentially.

You yourself can pull up an interlinear Bible on your phone right now with massive amounts of tools and study word by word comparing the Hebrew to English or Greek to English, and with a single click showing everywhere in the Bible the word is used, how it is used, how it is used in each language, what the word means down to the root in each language and a host of other tools and info as well on each language and word.

But you are purposely getting totally off point here because you can't defend your point. A person doesn't even need to cross reference and study other languages, just the English alone makes its clear Man was not created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. But I have also studied the Hebrew and its clear no such thing is suggested in the Hebrew either. The idea that there are 2 is (again) about 5 minutes old historically and rejected by a plethora of scholars.

So you can't bluff me on this by saying I haven't read or studied this in the Hebrew because I have. Its you who have not seriously studied the text on this in Hebrew or English, you just place blind faith in people who will make the claim because of your own desire to justify your rejection of the Bible as Gods Word.

You miss the point. Just because you have access to various tools to study the Bible vs decades ago, it doesn’t mean you have all the skills to know the intentions of the authors let alone see how different authors and editors changed older sources over time. That’s my point. No doubt the experts don’t have everything figured out; however, they have a lot of scientific and mathematical tools at their disposal to try to determine who the people in the ME were, their cultures and history. The Bible is a part of the cultural heritage of the people there and the later Greek and Roman philosophical contributions to interpreting the texts and creating new texts (the NT).

I think Bullet made a great point in learning to appreciate the Bible for how it was formed by culture(s) and the later influences it had on the descendants of the lands in the ME and how it evolved over time to incorporate new ideas from Persia, Greece and Rome. The Bible is a collection of literature that incorporates history into the various books inside. Learning what the authors were trying to convey is what’s most important. RCC teaches the Bible as being infallible when it comes to faith and salvation. It’s not a book of history, medicine or science. Treating the Bible like it’s an all inclusive treatise of anything not related to salvation and the message the authors are trying to convey is making the Bible into something less.
08-04-2024 09:31 AM
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miko33 Away
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Post: #100
RE: Maybe we didn't kill off the Neanderthals
(08-03-2024 11:53 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(08-03-2024 11:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 10:44 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  You're not reading these texts in their original languages. We don't see the changes within the blocks of text that would show different authors. There can be hundreds of years separating the authorship of different parts of the book.


That is exactly what I have spent years now doing Miko, Studying the the Bible in 3 different languages. Both the OT and NT in their original languages and in English.

You on the other hand have never ever read most of it in your own language, much less done years worth of study in original Hebrew or Greek as well. You can't even remotely make an argument yourself you have to link other peoples arguments and speak as vaguely and little as possible because you really know little to nothing about the actual text at all.



(08-02-2024 11:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Not to be mean, but you ARE reading this as if you are a child. Because of the tradition you chose as your lens thru which you interpret the bible, you have to rationalize away obvious inconsistencies. In the 2nd story of creation - for example - you have to say "God brought animals to man to name and find a suitable partner" while in reality it's showing God is creating those animals exactly how he created Adam by bringing them out from the dirt and then Adam is giving them names plus looking for a suitable partner.


A "child" who has studied the text in 3 different languages for many years Miko. Meanwhile you are trying to debate a book you have not even read 90% of in just one language.

Even if you go into this theoretical P or J (Yahwehist) stuff its still just that. A hypothetical THEORY about the original document that is highly questionable, rejected by many scholars and historically about 5 minutes old. What we do KNOW is ancient rabbis universally taught this as ONE creation account, not two. Jesus, the Apostles and the church fathers of the first 2 centuries had the EXACT same Genesis we have today and universally taught it as 100% literal, and NOT 2 different creation accounts. The idea of 2 accounts never even came up until about 150 years ago.

As soon as a someone starts trying to argue man was created twice from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2 you know you are in total quackville on this. No honest unbaised person can read the text in either language and say there were different 2 creations of man.

I read Genesis the same way the other 65 books of the Bible read Genesis. I read Genesis and creation the same way Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, John, James David, Solomon read it. As a LITERAL first hand account of creation. There are 65 books of the Bible that follow Genesis and reference and bring up the creation details over and over and over again and not one single time in the entire Bible is it ever presented as a parable or non literal. Every single time its is referenced as being ONE CREATION and 100% literal.

If you were actually reading the text you would know both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say God brought forth every living creature out of the earth (dry land) and out of the ground every beast was formed. And its says this in both languages.

I'm going to be kind here because we both know you are out of your depth on this and forced to take a blind leap of faith over what someone else says that you point to. YOU can't explain or state your position at all, you don't even know what to argue. You just know you have blind faith in this for obvious reasons.

There are a couple of legit places where you can point to possible contradiction in the text of the Bible, THIS AIN'T ONE OF THEM. Its not even close.

You're fluent in 3 languages - 2 of them being over 2,000 year old dialects? You read copies of manuscripts of the bible completely in their original languages - front to back - and completely understood the language with zero issues? Is that what you're telling us? We're not talking just any old Greek - but Koine Greek. If you wanted to, you could have an intelligent conversation with someone in Koine Greek. Not just ordering water at a restaurant level of mastery - but mastery on a level to have deep discussions with others in philosophy, theology and other such topics?

So, Miko, tell us how you think or believe we got here. To this place and time where we are intellectually trying to solve the mystery of our origin?

While you are to attempt it realize this

Are we the only technological species that has ever arisen?'- Woodruff Sullivan, University of Washington
The result? By applying the new exoplanet data to the universe’s 2 x 10 to the 22nd power stars, Frank and Sullivan find that human civilization is likely to be unique in the cosmos only if the odds of a civilization developing on a habitable planet are less than about one in 10 billion trillion, or one part in 10 to the 22nd power.

This makes me realize we are not here by mistake nor by some fish washing up on shore to become an ape to a man. We are all for a reason I just don’t know what it is.

Christians go on faith? And there has been some archaeological finds that confirm that a lot of things and events in the Bible were factual. So, while not confirming origin not complete fiction.

Science uses carbon dating and some other methods which aren’t 100% accurate either.

We can conclude early man not necessarily cave men did roam the earth.

How long ago? Still, not conclusive.

How old was the Mammoth flash frozen and kept frozen with green vegetation in its mouth and digestive tract. You can’t have a gradual ice age with green vegetation.

Mysteries? Perhaps or just maybe things didn’t occur over the vast periods of time as we are being told.

I mean just look at what’s gone on the last fifty years.

Does it matter if man was created with a purpose or if we developed with no purpose to our existence ever intended?
08-04-2024 09:35 AM
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