The Southern Conference’s method addresses Zorch’s wishes for weighted tourney results and what I mentioned about schools sitting idle and not getting dinged. More later!

(05-01-2024 09:12 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  The Southern Conference’s method addresses Zorch’s wishes for weighted tourney results and what I mentioned about schools sitting idle and not getting dinged. More later!

The SoCon treats each sport as 10 points and awards points relative to the number of schools sponsoring a sport, which is essentially what I’ve done.

However, for sports that have a regular season champ and a tourney champ, 2 points are awarded to the tourney champ (Zorch). And, only each school’s top 7 sports are considered. I like this and might go back and apply this to us and see how the two methods compare. Seems a little less “harsh” than the way I was doing it.

(05-02-2024 08:33 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  

(05-01-2024 09:12 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  The Southern Conference’s method addresses Zorch’s wishes for weighted tourney results and what I mentioned about schools sitting idle and not getting dinged. More later!

The SoCon treats each sport as 10 points and awards points relative to the number of schools sponsoring a sport, which is essentially what I’ve done.

However, for sports that have a regular season champ and a tourney champ, 2 points are awarded to the tourney champ (Zorch). And, only each school’s top 7 sports are considered. I like this and might go back and apply this to us and see how the two methods compare. Seems a little less “harsh” than the way I was doing it.

I definitely like giving more points to the tourney champ....if it was my decision I would make the ratio greater than 2:1. At least 3:1.

(04-28-2024 05:17 PM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Thru WTEN

.666 Delaware 15 (VB, WTEN .959)
.647 Northeastern 11 (MITF, WITF 1.000)
.619 Charleston 12 (MBB, MGOLF 1.000)
.609 UNCW 14 (MSWM, WSWM, MTEN 1.000)
.606 Drexel 10 (WBB .776)
.602 Towson 13 (WSOC 1.000)
.592 Elon 13 (WCC 1.000)
.577 Stony Brook 12 (MCC 1.000)
.573 William & Mary 17 (WTEN .959)
.537 Monmouth 16 (MSOC .932)
.528 Campbell 15 (WGOLF .850)
.402 Hofstra 14 (MSOC .978)
.344 N.C. A&T 11 (MITF .875)
.228 Hampton 11 (WITF .692)

Next to be added: Women’s and Men’s Lacrosse

I applied everything to the SoCon’s method and here is how the CAA currently stands (each school’s top 7 sports totaled and divided by 70)….

.931 Delaware
.895 UNCW
.862 Charleston
.841 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.825 Northeastern
.816 Elon
.811 Stony Brook
.793 Towson
.715 Drexel
.691 Hofstra
.688 Campbell
.473 N.C. A&T
.300 Hampton

To take another approach, I started calculating a Faux Commissioner's Cup shortly after Hofstra joined the CAA, using the guidelines for the America East's Commissioner's Cup:

Quote:In sports where regular-season round robin competition is conducted, the first-place institution in the final standings receives four points times the total number of teams involved in conference play. The second-place institution receives four less points; third place receives eight less points, and so on. Additionally, the [conference tournament] champion receives two points times the total number of teams participating in the championship. The second-place institution receives two less points; third place receives four less points and so on down to the last-place institution which receives two points.

In sports where regular-season round robin competition is not conducted (cross country, track & field, swimming & diving, etc.), the first-place institution at the [conference] championship receives two points times the total number of teams participating in the championship. The second-place institution receives two less points; third place gets four less points and so on down to the last place team which receives two points.

https://americaeast.com/news/2024/3/27/2...inter.aspx

I stopped calculating it (and posting on these boards) after Hofstra dropped football in 2009. With the above discussion I dusted off the old spreadsheet and took another crack at it.

Including all Fall and Winter Sports. as well as the Spring Golf and Tennis championships, and the final regular season Lacrosse standings, the CAA standings using this formula currently stands as follows:

TEAM PTS
Delaware 416
Towson 402
Monmouth 384
Stony Brook 373
William & Mary 334
Hofstra 316
Drexel 314
Charleston 310
Campbell 306
Elon 294
UNC Wilmington 265
Northeastern 242
NC A&T 154
Hampton 88

I will update with the final standings after the Baseball championship.

Looks like AmEast just amasses points and I absolutely see the logic in that. It might favor schools sponsoring more sports to a degree. Tournament performance for all schools is reflected better with this method (compared to the SoCon just awarding 2 pts to the champ).

In both leagues (SoCon and AmEast), the numbers can only go higher as the season progresses. That’s obvious. With the way I was doing it, Monmouth was on a downward springtime spiral!

Very glad you’re doing this, Joey! It will be interesting to watch how the two methods shake out!

(05-04-2024 08:16 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  With the way I was doing it, Monmouth was on a downward springtime spiral.

Monmouth was in 1st place before the Spring sports in my method as well.

(05-04-2024 08:16 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Looks like AmEast just amasses points and I absolutely see the logic in that. It might favor schools sponsoring more sports to a degree. Tournament performance for all schools is reflected better with this method (compared to the SoCon just awarding 2 pts to the champ).

I sense that the CAA prides itself on being a conference that sponsors a lot of sports, so my guess is that if they were to sponsor an all-sports trophy like this, it would be more likely to reward teams for participating in more sports.

Thru MLAX and WLAX (SoCon method)

.946 Delaware
.901 Stony Brook
.895 UNCW
.885 Towson
.862 Charleston
.841 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.825 Elon
.825 Northeastern
.782 Drexel
.765 Hofstra
.688 Campbell
.473 N.C. A&T
.305 Hampton

Next to be added: Men’s and Women’s Outdoor T&F, Softball

(05-04-2024 10:57 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  I sense that the CAA prides itself on being a conference that sponsors a lot of sports, so my guess is that if they were to sponsor an all-sports trophy like this, it would be more likely to reward teams for participating in more sports.

I suspect you're right. Funny to think about how what's good for a school isn't what the league actually prizes.

Thru SB, MOT&F, WOT&F (SoCon method)

.958 Delaware
.943 UNCW
.932 Northeastern
.932 Stony Brook
.892 Towson
.862 Charleston
.862 Elon
.848 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.823 Campbell
.783 Hofstra
.782 Drexel
.579 N.C. A&T
.432 Hampton

Next to be added: Women’s Rowing

AmericaEast method:

Note that Drexel has the highest average points per sport, but because they participate in the fewest sports they are in 9th place overall.

Thru Women’s Rowing (SoCon method)

.965 Northeastern
.958 Delaware
.943 UNCW
.932 Stony Brook
.892 Towson
.862 Charleston
.862 Elon
.848 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.823 Campbell
.800 Drexel
.783 Hofstra
.579 N.C. A&T
.432 Hampton

Next to be added: Baseball

Final (SoCon Method)

.991 UNCW
.965 Northeastern
.958 Delaware
.932 Stony Brook
.917 Charleston
.892 Towson
.862 Elon
.848 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.823 Campbell
.800 Drexel
.783 Hofstra
.579 N.C. A&T
.432 Hampton

(05-26-2024 05:26 PM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Final (SoCon Method)

.991 UNCW
.965 Northeastern
.958 Delaware
.932 Stony Brook
.917 Charleston
.892 Towson
.862 Elon
.848 Monmouth
.830 William & Mary
.823 Campbell
.800 Drexel
.783 Hofstra
.579 N.C. A&T
.432 Hampton

I vote we use your method!

Seriously, thanks for the hard work of keeping track of all of this.

Final Standings..."America East Commissioner's Cup Method"

Notes:
Every team except NC A&T and Hampton won at least a share of a regular season title or a championship.

The CAA Football standings ended in a 3-way tie at the top, among only football-only members (Villanova, Richmond, Albany)

Monmouth participated in the most sponsored sports (only missing Volleyball).

(05-27-2024 03:45 PM)JoeyBagODonuts Wrote:  Final Standings..."America East Commissioner's Cup Method"

PHP Code:

Team             Points   Sports    Avg
Delaware           536      21    25.52
Stony Brook        459      18    25.50
Monmouth           450      23    19.57
Towson             448      18    24.89
Campbell           364      19    19.16
William & Mary     454      22    20.64
Hofstra            394      19    20.74
UNC Wilmington     385      18    21.39
Charleston         376      15    25.07
Elon               364      17    21.41
Drexel             356      14    25.43
Northeastern       344      15    22.93
N. Carolina A&T    196      15    13.07
Hampton            126      15     8.40 


Notes:
Every team except NC A&T and Hampton won at least a share of a regular season title or a championship.

The CAA Football standings ended in a 3-way tie at the top, among only football-only members (Villanova, Richmond, Albany)

Monmouth participated in the most sponsored sports (only missing Volleyball).

I think this table shows the weakness of the SoCon method. 7 sports isn't even half of any team's varsity offerings (yeah, I know, Drexel squash isn't a CAA sport). I don't think that's nearly enough of a sample to judge all-sports success.

The America East method is much better for these purposes.

I like that America East way, too. I’m glad JBOD did this. It requires a little more work than the SoCon method.

For the SoCon way, I will go back and apply the 7 top sports for only the men and do it again for just the women for two races, and combine and average the two for an overall race. Won’t be too hard to do and it should be a truer measure.