(09-28-2023 05:01 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The B1G does NOT want Clemson or FSU. They only want AAU schools (UNC, VA, GA TECH, MIAMI).

SEC maybe takes Clemson, FSU, NC State, Va Tech someday, but SEC has made it clear they have little interest in expanding. FSU doesn't give them anything they don't already have. Hell, if the ACC goes belly up, they'd probably rather have Miami in a completely different market than FL or FSU.

If anything, I kind of thing FSU and Clemson are someday headed for the B12 along with Louisville and Pitt (when ACC goes away).

This has to be one of the most unlikely scenarios that I’ve read in sone time. Which says a lot.

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

How is UL’s valuation that high? Not doubting you, but just from an eyeballs on TV’s perspective…I wouldn’t expect them to add much to a conference’s coffers. Perhaps they’re a bigger brand than I give them credit for or the one-two punch of good football and basketball brings more to the table.

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

I know that UNC is lucky to be in the conversation. If OU can't bring little brother OSU, then UNC can't bring little brother NC St. Any of Duke, UVA or VT would be more desirable if we want to add a 2nd school in that region.

FYI, I'm not trashing NC St, I'm just being realistic. They are below the Missouri line, and they generate revenues about like Oregon St. They'd be roughly an average Brand in the Big 12, and they're roughly an average Brand in the ACC. We probably would have taken them a decade ago with my Aggies, but now the criteria for entry has become much more stringent.

(09-28-2023 05:15 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 03:59 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 03:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 02:55 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 02:24 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Why are Cincy and UCF getting voted off the Big 12 Island?

No, no. They will both request membership in the ACC.

Pretty soon the Big 12 will consist of teams no further east than Iowa St. and Kansas St. A majority will be out farther west to include Pac 12 and MWC remnants. Cincy and UCF will willingly be looking for a power conference closer to home and the ACC will need to fill a number of vacancies.

Ah...so we're living in a Fantasy land now. Got it.

Well all of our speculations come with a tinge of the fantastic. But, I assure you, what I have seen has been well planned and thought out. It may appear far-fetched, but years ago many of the changes we have seen in college football would have been unbelievable.

As an Aggies fan and Texas resident it seems you would be interested to see how things land. By 2038 the conference landscape will settle out.

Big 12
{Pacific}- Washington St., Oregon St., Boise St., Fresno St., San Diego St., Wyoming
{Mountain}- Utah, BYU, Nevada, UNLV, Arizona, Arizona St.
{Desert}- New Mexico, N.M. State, UTEP, Texas Tech, UTSA
{Prairie}- TCU, Houston, Oklahoma St., Tulsa, Kansas St., Iowa St.

SEC
{West}- Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Kansas
{East}- Georgia, S. Carolina, North Carolina, Clemson, Florida, Florida St.
{South}- LSU, Ole’ Miss, Miss St., Alabama, Auburn, Ga. Tech
{North}- WVU, Va. Tech, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vandy, Missouri

As you can see, there is nothing fantastic about the SEC. They are simply taking teams solidifying theirself as the strongest FBS conference. As a consequence, the Big 12 will be compelled to backfill in an attempt to keep up with the Jones’. This also means emulating the formula used by the BIG and SEC to arrive at 24 teams.

So you have us adding CU, KU, WV and VT and GT, in addition to the Big 3 from the ACC. I've had discussions about something like this with JR, it's not impossible for it to happen, but I'm unsure why my Aggies, or the Sooners, Tigers, and Longhorns for that matter, would decide to vote in a bunch of schools that are remarkably similar to schools that we left behind in the Big 12. If CU keeps up ratings like they've had for the past 4 weeks? Ok, sure, they'll be at the top of both the P2 lists. But KU, WV, VT and GT require all sorts of contortions to get excited about, varying from "but basketball" to "used to be in the SEC 50 years ago" to "we're adding WV and VT b/c it's nice and tidy for some dude's list of 24".

The real way things like this happen? The Presidents get together and make a list of schools that would add value. The B1G winnows their list down to AAU or T2 Academics (like ND before they joined the AAU), but otherwise the SEC and B1G lists only differ based upon geography. They might consider Calford or an Arizona school, we might consider Clemson or VT, and then there are a bunch that could get notice from us both. CU? KU? UVA? Miami? UNC? One thing that is definitely NOT happening is one or both of us grabbing up schools in such a way that it makes everyone's lists nice and tidy. Ie, someone is getting at least 2, and probably all 3, of the really desirable ACC schools. Someone else is then looking at what's left and trying to convince themselves that CU and Miami would be great adds. But for any P2 President to actually vote "Yes" after everything is factored in, the candidate school had better bring enough Bacon that it's worth further diluting our already tiny voting share of 1/16th or 1/18th of the total voting power in the conference. I can get behind that for UNC or Clemson, but for Kansas or WV? Eh...maybe down the road, but not today, not tomorrow, and not in 2030. CU is the ONLY school that's recently improved their chances of moving up, and those chances will be largely dependent upon whether Deion plans to stay there for 3 years or 30.

You don’t seem that far off or uncomfortable with what the future conference looks like. Plus you have a decade to digest it and let it grow on you. Regardless of the trajectory of the Buffaloes on their respective fields of play, the addition of CU adds a large, dynamic, growing state to the SEC family. It helps that there is a revival in football currently. But sports are cyclical. The momentum that football has can spread through the athletic department if handled well. So CU is a very practical and desired candidate in the near future when weighted against other available expansion candidates. Similar is Kansas university. It delivers an entire state, a historically great basketball program, a football program that shows signs if life, and again would be near the top of the list for expansion profiles. The Kansas Jayhawk brand is national. WVU is a bit of a head scratcher. They have a rabid passionate fanbase from a tiny state. They are historically competitive in the top two sports. They are “the” state university, so they fit that profile of the SEC. They kinda feel like an SEC team, but I can’t imagine they add any monetary value. So it’s a lttle weird.

Florida St. and Clemson are shoe-ins and add instant value and recognition to the SEC. North Carolina brings a new highly populated state into the SEC family. Obviously the UNC brand is nationwide. They are basketball bluebloods. They have a decent football program that would be middle of the pack in the SEC. I think UNC would be a slam dunk for the SEC. You could just say ditto for Va. Tech in the state of Virginia, minus the basketball blueblood stuff. Make no mistake, there are far more VT fans in VA than UVa fans. And Blacksburg is a great place for passionate football fans, even as they have struggled post Beamer.

The BIG will get their egghead schools in UVa, Duke, Miami, and ND, plus Stanford and Cal to sew up the western division. They gain new markets, academics, some good athletics. They encroach into SEC and ACC territory and claim it as their own.

Looking at the way these teams and conferences are layed out and formatted just makes too much sense as I look at it. You are right that things rarely go as expected. And things can change in a decade. College sports will look much diferent in the coming years.

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

Good stuff there.

VT is clearly far ahead of NC St on our list. They've been terrible for years but still sell 65k tickets to every game. That's Big Brand fan engagement and enthusiasm, and VT is a great regional partner for UNC, too. Additionally, VT significantly outraises and outspends NC St on a yearly basis.

Louisville still throws me for a loop. I know that their overall Athletic Department brings in a ton of revenue, but their football enthusiasm needs some work if they want to overcome their geographical disadvantage. They're probably a school that's hoping the ACC stays together until the very end of the GoR, that gives them enough time to build the football program up.

(09-28-2023 05:57 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

Wait....what do you mean you don't want NC State?!?!

Seems pretty clear. We also don't want Texas Tech, Ok St, or Baylor. Nothing against any of them, they're all quality schools, but none of them has the Brand that we're looking for.

Look at the 14 teams that the P2 have added in the past 30 years. All are either Flagships or Equivalents. All 8 of the B1G adds were AAU and 3 of the 6 to the SEC were, too. No Privates other than the 54k enrollment USC. No school is a clear #2 or even #3 in their own region Athletically. Arkansas dominates their State. Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon, OU, etc etc...everyone either dominates their State/Region, or they share and nearly split a very high population and very important region like A&M/Texas or USCLA. North Carolina is 1/2 the population of SoCal and 1/3 that of Texas, even figuring that OU helps with Texas, that's still 10m+ per school for A&M/OUT/USCLA. If we add a school in North Carolina it needs to be able to bring that USCLA/OUT/A&M-like 10m fans. Only one school in the State does that, and it's not NC St.

Or, I suppose we could decide to lower our standards and bring in some $40m brands fresh on the heels of the 2 $100m+ brands that we just brought in.

(09-28-2023 07:36 PM)gwelymernans Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

I don't think NCSt is completely unpalatable to the SEC, but if the SEC only goes to 20 and NCSt is invited I'd be surpised. Would either mean UNC has the sway/desire to drag them along (highly doubtful) or that UNC/Duke both went to the B1G (less than likely but at least plausible).

I also find it unlikely that the B1G would pass on Duke so the B12 could have them. They could be paired w/ GT (bridge to Miami), KU (BB), Stanford (academics/olympic sports) or CO (bridge to the West).

NC St is the TYPE of school that we like, but they have to be a whole lot stronger in their own market and be a whole lot bigger overall Brand. They're like a 1/2 or 2/3 size version of Clemson. Good but not great results on the field, good but not great attendance and eyeballs, good but not great fan engagement and enthusiasm in their home market, good but not great overall Brand. They're too much "Texas Tech" and not enough "OU". In fact, if we were looking for programs like NC St, it's tough figure why we'd take them over Texas Tech, or Ok St, or TCU, or CU, or KU, or even ASU.

(09-28-2023 08:42 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:57 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

Wait....what do you mean you don't want NC State?!?!

Seems pretty clear. We also don't want Texas Tech, Ok St, or Baylor. Nothing against any of them, they're all quality schools, but none of them has the Brand that we're looking for.

Look at the 14 teams that the P2 have added in the past 30 years. All are either Flagships or Equivalents. All 8 of the B1G adds were AAU and 3 of the 6 to the SEC were, too. No Privates other than the 54k enrollment USC. No school is a clear #2 or even #3 in their own region Athletically. Arkansas dominates their State. Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon, OU, etc etc...everyone either dominates their State/Region, or they share and nearly split a very high population and very important region like A&M/Texas or USCLA. North Carolina is 1/2 the population of SoCal and 1/3 that of Texas, even figuring that OU helps with Texas, that's still 10m+ per school for A&M/OUT/USCLA. If we add a school in North Carolina it needs to be able to bring that USCLA/OUT/A&M-like 10m fans. Only one school in the State does that, and it's not NC St.

Or, I suppose we could decide to lower our standards and bring in some $40m brands fresh on the heels of the 2 $100m+ brands that we just brought in.

Bryan, I'm just messing with ya, man. I'm well aware of your stance on NC State and I understand your points

(09-28-2023 08:24 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

How is UL’s valuation that high? Not doubting you, but just from an eyeballs on TV’s perspective…I wouldn’t expect them to add much to a conference’s coffers. Perhaps they’re a bigger brand than I give them credit for or the one-two punch of good football and basketball brings more to the table.

Louisville is highly unusual in that they've got such a strong basketball tradition but also bring it in Football, too. Their revenues are much closer to FSU's than they are to NC St's in fact. We've talked about them a lot, but they might have the worst geography of any P2 candidate. 76 miles from Lexington, and UK is stronger in both FB and basketball in their state. 100 miles from bloomington, and Indiana has a stronger basketball history. go out 200 miles and they get to West Lafayette and Columbus. Gulp. Neither of the P2 needs or wants a school in that region, and Louisville isn't a Brand on the order of Clemson that forces you to take note of them despite their geography.

(09-28-2023 08:51 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:42 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:57 PM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

Wait....what do you mean you don't want NC State?!?!

Seems pretty clear. We also don't want Texas Tech, Ok St, or Baylor. Nothing against any of them, they're all quality schools, but none of them has the Brand that we're looking for.

Look at the 14 teams that the P2 have added in the past 30 years. All are either Flagships or Equivalents. All 8 of the B1G adds were AAU and 3 of the 6 to the SEC were, too. No Privates other than the 54k enrollment USC. No school is a clear #2 or even #3 in their own region Athletically. Arkansas dominates their State. Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon, OU, etc etc...everyone either dominates their State/Region, or they share and nearly split a very high population and very important region like A&M/Texas or USCLA. North Carolina is 1/2 the population of SoCal and 1/3 that of Texas, even figuring that OU helps with Texas, that's still 10m+ per school for A&M/OUT/USCLA. If we add a school in North Carolina it needs to be able to bring that USCLA/OUT/A&M-like 10m fans. Only one school in the State does that, and it's not NC St.

Or, I suppose we could decide to lower our standards and bring in some $40m brands fresh on the heels of the 2 $100m+ brands that we just brought in.

Bryan, I'm just messing with ya, man. I'm well aware of your stance on NC State and I understand your points

I love it!

(09-28-2023 08:24 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

I know that UNC is lucky to be in the conversation. If OU can't bring little brother OSU, then UNC can't bring little brother NC St. Any of Duke, UVA or VT would be more desirable if we want to add a 2nd school in that region.

FYI, I'm not trashing NC St, I'm just being realistic. They are below the Missouri line, and they generate revenues about like Oregon St. They'd be roughly an average Brand in the Big 12, and they're roughly an average Brand in the ACC. We probably would have taken them a decade ago with my Aggies, but now the criteria for entry has become much more stringent.

Well, we don’t want to be in a conference with cultish TAMU so move along lil feller

(09-28-2023 05:01 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The B1G does NOT want Clemson or FSU. They only want AAU schools (UNC, VA, GA TECH, MIAMI).

SEC maybe takes Clemson, FSU, NC State, Va Tech someday, but SEC has made it clear they have little interest in expanding. FSU doesn't give them anything they don't already have. Hell, if the ACC goes belly up, they'd probably rather have Miami in a completely different market than FL or FSU.

If anything, I kind of thing FSU and Clemson are someday headed for the B12 along with Louisville and Pitt (when ACC goes away).

Did someone find a forgotten stash of leftover Dude cigars in the attic?

Remember when everyone in the poor, pathetic ACC starving for a path to the playoffs was going to stampede to the B12, leaving Pitt alone and stranded to the eternal delight of WV trolls? And the SEC had a 'gentlemen's agreement' and the B1G an AAU requirement that were as ironclad as any GoR? Maryland and Clemson and Florida State were going to live happily ever after playing Texas and Oklahoma in the filthy rich, GoR-guaranteed big-boy B12 as they packed their home stadiums with crowds dying to catch those must-see games against Iowa State and Baylor? And everyone was going to make piles of money so high Notre Dame would want to join the B12, too?

Yeah, those were some wild smokes...

(09-27-2023 12:55 PM)Chappy Wrote:  There's nowhere to go. The Big 10 isn't a predator and expansion makes the SEC sad.

Huh? The B1G just killed the PAC. SEC wants Clemson and FSU. Networks are going to decide conference makeups from now on unless the feds get involved (which is possible). Networks already know they are paying way too much for the Purdue's, Northwestern's, Rutgers, Miss St's., Missouri's and pretty much all but 4 ACC schools. They want to dump the deadweight, create a single league outside of the NCAA, and the schools that aren't considered "deadweight" will have no problem with that.

At that point, we get NFL version 2. Short term, makes the rich richer. Long term? Who looks at "long term" nowadays? Answer: No one.

(09-27-2023 12:55 PM)Chappy Wrote:  There's nowhere to go. The Big 10 isn't a predator and expansion makes the SEC sad.

(09-28-2023 08:30 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 04:47 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  whenever this comes apart

B1G:Miami,UVa
SEC:UNC,FSU,Clemson,NC St.
B12:Pitt,Louisville,Duke,VT

ACC:adds UConn, 7-9 AAC schools

ND olympics to B12 or BE (Terry which one?)I think B12.

WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

Good stuff there.

VT is clearly far ahead of NC St on our list. They've been terrible for years but still sell 65k tickets to every game. That's Big Brand fan engagement and enthusiasm, and VT is a great regional partner for UNC, too. Additionally, VT significantly outraises and outspends NC St on a yearly basis.

Louisville still throws me for a loop. I know that their overall Athletic Department brings in a ton of revenue, but their football enthusiasm needs some work if they want to overcome their geographical disadvantage. They're probably a school that's hoping the ACC stays together until the very end of the GoR, that gives them enough time to build the football program up.

Not really. Louisville is the school which be just as happy, or even happier in the Big 12. They are really a nice group who just loves their sports and is likely tired of being lampooned by all of the ACC pseudo-elitists. Okay Duke can lampoon them. The rest are just some really solid state and private schools. Ivy is still Ivy and Duke and Stanford are just as good, they just don't hold a membership in the club. Everyone else is, well, desperately holding onto P status.

(09-28-2023 08:54 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:24 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

How is UL’s valuation that high? Not doubting you, but just from an eyeballs on TV’s perspective…I wouldn’t expect them to add much to a conference’s coffers. Perhaps they’re a bigger brand than I give them credit for or the one-two punch of good football and basketball brings more to the table.

Louisville is highly unusual in that they've got such a strong basketball tradition but also bring it in Football, too. Their revenues are much closer to FSU's than they are to NC St's in fact. We've talked about them a lot, but they might have the worst geography of any P2 candidate. 76 miles from Lexington, and UK is stronger in both FB and basketball in their state. 100 miles from bloomington, and Indiana has a stronger basketball history. go out 200 miles and they get to West Lafayette and Columbus. Gulp. Neither of the P2 needs or wants a school in that region, and Louisville isn't a Brand on the order of Clemson that forces you to take note of them despite their geography.

2/3rds correct. They also make the CWS playoff regionals about annually. They are simply good in all sports, or try very hard to be. Being good and being competitive goes a long long way in television. And they have reach beyond Kentucky because of their location. ESPN only had a piece of 1 P5 team that could reach into Ohio, Notre Dame. Louisville is another.

(09-28-2023 09:16 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:01 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The B1G does NOT want Clemson or FSU. They only want AAU schools (UNC, VA, GA TECH, MIAMI).

SEC maybe takes Clemson, FSU, NC State, Va Tech someday, but SEC has made it clear they have little interest in expanding. FSU doesn't give them anything they don't already have. Hell, if the ACC goes belly up, they'd probably rather have Miami in a completely different market than FL or FSU.

If anything, I kind of thing FSU and Clemson are someday headed for the B12 along with Louisville and Pitt (when ACC goes away).

Did someone find a forgotten stash of leftover Dude cigars in the attic?

Remember when everyone in the poor, pathetic ACC starving for a path to the playoffs was going to stampede to the B12, leaving Pitt alone and stranded to the eternal delight of WV trolls? And the SEC had a 'gentlemen's agreement' and the B1G an AAU requirement that were as ironclad as any GoR? Maryland and Clemson and Florida State were going to live happily ever after playing Texas and Oklahoma in the filthy rich, GoR-guaranteed big-boy B12 as they packed their home stadiums with crowds dying to catch those must-see games against Iowa State and Baylor? And everyone was going to make piles of money so high Notre Dame would want to join the B12, too?

Yeah, those were some wild smokes...

Gitanole, layoff of the Lieutenant Junior Grade, children shouldn't smoke, and Navy cops need to set an example.

(09-28-2023 08:54 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:24 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:28 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:17 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  WE DON'T WANT NC STATE.

you don't know that and they might come w/ UNC. Uva could be gone already. VT and GT on the field aren't as good as NCSU.

In the SEC N.C. State's attendance would be 4th from the bottom out of 20 schools. Virginia Tech would be 14th out of the proposed 20 schools, 6th from the bottom.

For the record West Virginia would only be ahead of Vanderbilt. (and this isn't addressed to Fresno St. Alum but to ArmyMike.

UVa is not gone already. And Georgia Tech attendance is lower than West Virginia's, but still just above Vanderbilt's.

Virginia Tech, record or not, easily beats that field you listed for candidates.

The SEC will be looking at revenue generation, especially non media money, including athletics donations, gate, concessions, and signage earnings. Those reflect the level of support far better than media revenue. They will look at the average travel crowd. They will look at facilities, seating capacity, and ease of access to the campus via airline and road. They will also look to see what the school offers the SEC athletically and academically. This is why Duke, in spite of horrid attendance, could be considered.

The 2nd and 3rd highest valuations for the ACC belong to Florida State and Clemson. Louisville is #1, Virginia Tech is 4th, and North Carolina is 5th, Syracuse 6th and Duke is 7th.

We have all of this data available in the important threads section between the SEC forum, the P5 sub forum and the CS /CR main board and all of it is pinned in the important thread's sections of these forums.

When people make wild speculations about realignment these should be consulted. It spares some named by posters embarrassment and makes the whole process of selection make more sense.

How is UL’s valuation that high? Not doubting you, but just from an eyeballs on TV’s perspective…I wouldn’t expect them to add much to a conference’s coffers. Perhaps they’re a bigger brand than I give them credit for or the one-two punch of good football and basketball brings more to the table.

Louisville is highly unusual in that they've got such a strong basketball tradition but also bring it in Football, too. Their revenues are much closer to FSU's than they are to NC St's in fact. We've talked about them a lot, but they might have the worst geography of any P2 candidate. 76 miles from Lexington, and UK is stronger in both FB and basketball in their state. 100 miles from bloomington, and Indiana has a stronger basketball history. go out 200 miles and they get to West Lafayette and Columbus. Gulp. Neither of the P2 needs or wants a school in that region, and Louisville isn't a Brand on the order of Clemson that forces you to take note of them despite their geography.

Louisville has a sweetheart basketball arena deal and so make a ton of money.

(09-28-2023 09:16 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 05:01 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  The B1G does NOT want Clemson or FSU. They only want AAU schools (UNC, VA, GA TECH, MIAMI).

SEC maybe takes Clemson, FSU, NC State, Va Tech someday, but SEC has made it clear they have little interest in expanding. FSU doesn't give them anything they don't already have. Hell, if the ACC goes belly up, they'd probably rather have Miami in a completely different market than FL or FSU.

If anything, I kind of thing FSU and Clemson are someday headed for the B12 along with Louisville and Pitt (when ACC goes away).

Did someone find a forgotten stash of leftover Dude cigars in the attic?

Remember when everyone in the poor, pathetic ACC starving for a path to the playoffs was going to stampede to the B12, leaving Pitt alone and stranded to the eternal delight of WV trolls? And the SEC had a 'gentlemen's agreement' and the B1G an AAU requirement that were as ironclad as any GoR? Maryland and Clemson and Florida State were going to live happily ever after playing Texas and Oklahoma in the filthy rich, GoR-guaranteed big-boy B12 as they packed their home stadiums with crowds dying to catch those must-see games against Iowa State and Baylor? And everyone was going to make piles of money so high Notre Dame would want to join the B12, too?

Yeah, those were some wild smokes...

FSU and Clemson would be in a whole lot better shape today with different leadership that paid attention to those Big 12 overtures. They wouldn't be stuck for 14 more years in a GOR. They would be heading to the SEC.

(09-28-2023 10:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 09:16 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

FSU and Clemson would be in a whole lot better shape today with different leadership that paid attention to those Big 12 overtures. They wouldn't be stuck for 14 more years in a GOR. They would be heading to the SEC.