(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the [PAC] name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

(09-22-2023 10:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:21 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:09 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Nice touch that WSU's band will play OSU's fight song at the beginning of their FB game.

A good move, once they have full control of the PAC, is to state publicly their-then latest and greatest offer to the Big XII. And make it a great offer to make the presidents and BY think eager to bring them both in. In advance, and if not already, ask BY in which of the PAC's assets the Big XII is interested, e.g., the PAC streaming network, and which they are not (e.g., GK, PAC-12 name/logos) and wind those down/out cleanly.

Why are you still beating this drum? You guys don't need WOSU today, and if you need them tomorrow, they'll still be available. It's not your fault at all that WOSU got left behind, and it's not your job to fix their problem. Yormark's vision has already shifted eastward as he considers schools like VT, NC St, Louisville, GT, etc etc etc. He may eventually talk about WOSU, too, but like UConn and Gonzaga, they'd just be backup plans.

Why are you still beating that drum?

BY considers UConn, Memphis, UNLV, and San Diego State (see the Magic Whiteboard). The Big XII future is looking like Coach Prime and the 15 dwarves.

Coach Prime won't even be there in 3 years.

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the [PAC] name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

(09-23-2023 09:00 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Coach Prime won't even be there in 3 years.

I tend to agree, unfortunately. If not the SEC, his health. I wish him, and CU, the best.

Hopefully CU can beat UO today; a big mountain to climb, for sure.

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 10:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  Why are you still beating that drum?

BY considers UConn, Memphis, UNLV, and San Diego State (see the Magic Whiteboard). The Big XII future is looking like Coach Prime and the 15 dwarves.

That's ironic coming from a Conference that took the Big 12's leftovers.

Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

(09-23-2023 11:35 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  That's ironic coming from a Conference that took the Big 12's leftovers.

Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

Actual athletic performance is only a portion of the overall brand for each school. Ask Boise how being a great football team helped them get to the Big XII…

How about the Aztecs? They were so great but the Big XII added Colorado and Arizona before them.

(09-23-2023 10:47 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the [PAC] name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

They (WSU/OSU admins) claim they can put together a schedule as late as late fall, but I think that would be pushing it. Thanksgiving? That would be really late.

And independence would basically decimate their programs. Everyone good would transfer in all the sports. They wouldn't be able to recruit. There would be no chance for NCAA championships. It is not really a feasible alternative. Even Notre Dame requires a conference for sports other than football.

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC. The only questions are the structure it takes.

(09-23-2023 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  And independence would basically decimate their programs. ...

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC.

Only rational choice is the MW merger, unless the Big XII makes an offer (low chance, though, of the latter).

If they have to play for a year or two before the PAC-12's internal issues can be settled, then technically they wouldn't be independents -- they'd still be PAC-12. But with a heck of a lot of OOC games.

(09-23-2023 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:47 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the [PAC] name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

They (WSU/OSU admins) claim they can put together a schedule as late as late fall, but I think that would be pushing it. Thanksgiving? That would be really late.

And independence would basically decimate their programs. Everyone good would transfer in all the sports. They wouldn't be able to recruit. There would be no chance for NCAA championships. It is not really a feasible alternative. Even Notre Dame requires a conference for sports other than football.

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC. The only questions are the structure it takes.

Putting together an indy schedule this late is nothing but more fantasy from desperate programs. Forget the cost of buying games for all sports, there almost certainly *aren't* available games for much of the season. Even only looking at football, Oct/Nov are almost strictly conference games that no amount of money will buy out. If they form a scheduling alliance with MWC then there's a good argument they're MWC members and don't get the CFP and NCAAT money.

Funny how Big 12 fans are always raiding the ACC . You know in the 2030’s the schools everyone thinks the SEC and B1G want might not be the same as today . Some of the mentioned schools have faltered the last few years and some of the ones folks say don’t have a shot are on the upswing . A lot can change between now and then including conference payouts. As it stand there Might be 3 schools that could leave in the later time frame but that doesn’t mean any would automatically leave for the Big 12 just because. Granted it looks better with the 4 corners than before the AAC, BYU schools came in this year but I believe the ACC will still be strong in the future

(09-23-2023 11:43 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 11:35 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

Actual athletic performance is only a portion of the overall brand for each school. Ask Boise how being a great football team helped them get to the Big XII…

How about the Aztecs? They were so great but the Big XII added Colorado and Arizona before them.

Adding PAC schools did two things for the B12:

1. Killed off the PAC, their main competition going forward at the time. Now, the ACC is their main competition.
2. Added teams from a P5 conference which is, at least on the surface, a bigger get for them.

(09-23-2023 12:25 PM)clunk Wrote:  Putting together an indy schedule this late is nothing but more fantasy

As the Big XII (and others?) with excess teams (2 this year) showed, it can be done. If they can work a deal soon with the Big XII, OSU and WSU could just take UT and OU's schedules as OOC. If the Big XII says no, then the MW could do similar OOC schedules for OSU and WSU for a year or two -- the MW has incentive to play nice with the PAC-2, toward their eventual merger.

(09-23-2023 02:01 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 12:25 PM)clunk Wrote:  Putting together an indy schedule this late is nothing but more fantasy

As the Big XII (and others?) with excess teams (2 this year) showed, it can be done. If they can work a deal soon with the Big XII, OSU and WSU could just take UT and OU's schedules as OOC. If the Big XII says no, then the MW could do similar OOC schedules for OSU and WSU for a year or two -- the MW has incentive to play nice with the PAC-2, toward their eventual merger.

That's conference schedule. Those are usually released relatively late but it's still a conference schedule. You can arrange any number of teams any way you want. 2PAC doesn't have that unless they want to play each other 8 times.

(09-23-2023 11:35 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  That's ironic coming from a Conference that took the Big 12's leftovers.

Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

Hmm

I believe your viewpoint is warped.

(09-23-2023 02:16 PM)clunk Wrote:  That's conference schedule. Those are usually released relatively late

OOC games are sometimes played during otherwise conference-subseason. Can be done for OSU and WSU, if there's a will. Might not be from the Big XII, unless there's good money to be had. MW would do it, though, if the merger's plan is set.

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

All of this is occurring during the season. Yeesh.

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.