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More bank accounts closed
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umbluegray Offline
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More bank accounts closed
09-11-2023 10:32 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #2
RE: More bank accounts closed
Bank apparently saw too much risk from an AML perspective. The businesses were probably operating as MSBs (money service business) which is always considered high risk for any bank. Even if they weren't doing anything wrong, banks have the right to terminate relationships based on real or perceived risks, particularly business accounts. It's in every bank's terms and conditions that customers receive at account opening.
09-11-2023 10:37 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: More bank accounts closed
we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…
09-11-2023 10:37 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #4
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 11:13 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-11-2023 11:11 AM
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mlb Offline
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RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

You are probably correct. I believe the biggest impetus behind those regulations were the drug dealers... I don't think it has done anything to solve the problem either.
09-11-2023 11:39 AM
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umbluegray Offline
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RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Bank apparently saw too much risk from an AML perspective. The businesses were probably operating as MSBs (money service business) which is always considered high risk for any bank. Even if they weren't doing anything wrong, banks have the right to terminate relationships based on real or perceived risks, particularly business accounts. It's in every bank's terms and conditions that customers receive at account opening.

True, but after 30 years and during a socialist-leaning administration, one has to wonder.
09-11-2023 11:48 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

I didn’t phrase that well (however, it’s still the “cash” component that’s the issue) … your explanation is much better … 04-cheers from the field
09-11-2023 11:54 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #8
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 11:39 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

You are probably correct. I believe the biggest impetus behind those regulations were the drug dealers... I don't think it has done anything to solve the problem either.

Drug dealers and terrorism financing. Especially the latter after 9/11.
09-11-2023 12:19 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #9
RE: More bank accounts closed
That damn Putin


Oh wait nevermind
09-11-2023 12:19 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #10
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 11:39 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

You are probably correct. I believe the biggest impetus behind those regulations were the drug dealers... I don't think it has done anything to solve the problem either.

Republicans in congress embraced this law just as they did the rest of the Patriot Act....

never ever freely give up anything to government believing they will only use it to go after the "bad guy". Sooner or later those same laws will be turned on everyone. If they will misuse laws to try and unseat a sitting President that should be all any of us need to know as just how dangerous "laws" can be for us all.

Never trust your government. At any level.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 12:50 PM by WKUYG.)
09-11-2023 12:42 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #11
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

It's not just banks, either. There are still many stories of people who, for one reason or another, were traveling with a large amount of cash and had it confiscated by authorities, despite there being no evidence of criminal activity. These seizures should be illegal without evidence of criminal activity. Often, the funds are never returned. The citizen has little to no recourse.
09-11-2023 01:29 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #12
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 01:29 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

It's not just banks, either. There are still many stories of people who, for one reason or another, were traveling with a large amount of cash and had it confiscated by authorities, despite there being no evidence of criminal activity. These seizures should be illegal without evidence of criminal activity. Often, the funds are never returned. The citizen has little to no recourse.

Absolutely. Thats largely what I was referring to with the comments about being considered guilty just by the mere presence of large amounts of cash. There are lots of legitimate cash business in the US. This automatic assumption that cash is related to drugs until proven otherwise seems completely unconstitutional to me (in a government confiscation the due process burden of proof should be on the government---not the citizen---especially if you've just confiscated their financial ability to hire legal help). I have never understood how that law continues to survive as it seemingly goes against everything the public largely believes our justice system to be.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 01:37 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-11-2023 01:35 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #13
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 01:29 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

It's not just banks, either. There are still many stories of people who, for one reason or another, were traveling with a large amount of cash and had it confiscated by authorities, despite there being no evidence of criminal activity. These seizures should be illegal without evidence of criminal activity. Often, the funds are never returned. The citizen has little to no recourse.

Absolutely. Thats largely what I was referring to with the comments about being considered guilty just by the mere presence of large amounts of cash. There are lots of legitimate cash business in the US. This automatic assumption that cash is related to drugs until proven otherwise seems completely unconstitutional to me (in a government confiscation the due process burden of proof should be on the government---not the citizen---especially if you've just confiscated their financial ability to hire legal help). I have never understood how that law continues to survive as it seemingly goes against everything the public largely believes our justice system to be.

Since the state and local police get a share of this money and most of the time its used to pay unlimited OT for certain programs in the police department so they make money off it.

About 8 years ago I'm in BG for a Western football game and my son and I got there about 3 hours early. My sisters car stopped on her on the way home from work and she pulled it into a motel parking lot. I stop by to check it out and got it started and waited for her to show up. After sitting there for 20 or 30 minutes my son and I left. A cop pulls out behind me in a unmarked car (found out he was a cop later) followed us till we stopped to eat and followed us after that. He made the stop soon after. His first words were....

Got any firearms or drugs on you? Nope. Got any large sums of cash? Told him You might think its large, I don't. You own this car? Yes. Paid for? Yeah, cash (actually by check) . His eyes lit up and asked where I was headed and could he search.

Before I answered his 2nd question I knew where this was going and told him hell no on the search. He asked for my ID and when back to check it and call the K9 drug dog. Wanted to know how much cash I had and what I do for a living and why I was at that motel.....

All I told him was you saw what I did and the other doesn't concern you. Took about 90 minutes and what ended up being 6 cops and a dog. I knew the chief of police fairly well so I ended up dropping his name or this probably goes sideways. Made it to the game and while the stop pissed me off because I knew exactly what they wanted....my money and car. losing in OT to Vandy on 2 point play in a game Western should of won by 14....really pissed me off
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 02:07 PM by WKUYG.)
09-11-2023 02:03 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #14
RE: More bank accounts closed
Here's another story on civil forfeiture.

Quote:The FBI Took Her Life Savings But Won’t Say What She Did Wrong

The FBI seized Linda Martin’s $40,200. It didn’t charge her with a crime, and the notice the FBI sent her did not say why it was trying to keep her money forever. Yet Linda’s savings have been in the government’s hands for nearly two years. What started as a simple decision to save for a home has now become a nationwide class action lawsuit.

Linda Martin lives in the expensive Los Angeles real-estate market. When Linda began to save for a down payment, she wanted to rent a safe deposit box because, in Linda’s own words, she is “a shopper.” Linda knew that if she could use her ATM card to spend that money, there would be a chance she would use it on something she wanted but didn’t really need. So she decided to put the cash in cold storage.

However, Linda’s bank didn’t have boxes available to rent. A Google search led her to a company in Beverly Hills, US Private Vaults. She checked out the location, liked that it had modern security measures like a retina scanner, and that it was open 24 hours. That made her savings accessible any time when she really needed it, but also a 30-minute drive from her home, far enough away that she wouldn’t be tempted.

But Linda’s plans came crashing down in March 2021, when she and her husband saw on the evening news that US Private Vaults had been raided by the FBI. Knowing that her money wasn’t criminal gains, Linda thought the FBI would quickly sort out its mistake and return her savings.

Instead, a couple months later Linda received a notice in the mail. It turned out that the FBI was trying to take her savings forever through a process known as civil forfeiture. But the notice didn’t say why the FBI was trying to do that. Instead, it was packed with dense legalese.

Still thinking this was just an innocent misunderstanding, Linda struggled to respond, ultimately choosing to file a “petition for remission.” Unbeknownst to Linda, picking that option meant she effectively handed her money over to the FBI and gave it carte blanche to decide whether to return any of it.

Two years later, Linda’s money is still trapped in what is known as administrative forfeiture. Other than some form responses, Linda hasn’t heard from anyone at the FBI about whether or when she might be able to get her money back.

Frustrated at the silence and angry about being subjected to this Kafkaesque nightmare, Linda recently stood in front of FBI headquarters in Washington to announce a nationwide class-action lawsuit with the Institute for Justice. The suit asks the court to require the FBI to either tell Linda what it thinks she did wrong or return her property. Standing up for others, Linda’s lawsuit asks the court to do the same for everyone who received notices like Linda’s.

Linda is far from the first customer of US Private Vault to sue the government. The search warrant the FBI acquired to raid US Private Vaults only said the company was suspected of crimes, not individual customers. And the warrant said the FBI was only permitted to open individual boxes in order to figure out how to reach owners.

Instead, acting on a plan it didn’t tell the judge about, the FBI opened every box and attempted to forfeit every box that contained more than $5,000 in valuables. With hundreds of boxes filled with cash, precious metals, jewelry and even poker chips in its hands, the total windfall for the FBI could come to more than $100 million.


Should Linda win her suit, it would force federal law enforcement to fix forfeiture notices that a federal judge called “anemic.” The “copy-and-paste” notice Linda received looks like the others sent to other box renters and thousands of others across the country. That notice indirectly refers to hundreds of federal crimes, including trading with North Korea and copyright infringement.

But Linda’s suit would not fix all the problems with a federal forfeiture system that flips American justice on its head. No one should have to prove their innocence to keep their property.

Last week, Rep. Tim Walberg (R-MI) and Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD) reintroduced the FAIR Act (H.R. 1525), legislation that aims to curb the worst abuses of federal forfeiture. A number of the act’s reforms could have prevented Linda from having her savings taken.

First, it would end administrative forfeiture. Law enforcement bureaucrats should not be the prosecutor, judge and jury deciding whether to keep Americans’ property. If the government is going to take property, a neutral judge should weigh the evidence to support such an award. Property owners would also be provided with an attorney.

Second, the legislation would end the profit incentive for federal law enforcement to forfeit property by sending proceeds to the general Treasury fund. Forfeitures are a huge moneymaker for law enforcement. In just the five years from 2017 through 2021, Department of Justice agencies forfeited more than $8 billion. The FBI forfeited over $1.19 billion during that same time period. And that money goes into an account that DOJ controls itself, without input from Congress.

Linda is seeking justice, not just for herself but for many others. There is no reason why Americans shouldn’t have the same rights afforded to them whether they are fighting for their property or defending themselves from criminal charges.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/institutefo...d15fe25eea
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 02:07 PM by MileHighBronco.)
09-11-2023 02:04 PM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #15
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 01:29 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

It's not just banks, either. There are still many stories of people who, for one reason or another, were traveling with a large amount of cash and had it confiscated by authorities, despite there being no evidence of criminal activity. These seizures should be illegal without evidence of criminal activity. Often, the funds are never returned. The citizen has little to no recourse.

Absolutely. Thats largely what I was referring to with the comments about being considered guilty just by the mere presence of large amounts of cash. There are lots of legitimate cash business in the US. This automatic assumption that cash is related to drugs until proven otherwise seems completely unconstitutional to me (in a government confiscation the due process burden of proof should be on the government---not the citizen---especially if you've just confiscated their financial ability to hire legal help). I have never understood how that law continues to survive as it seemingly goes against everything the public largely believes our justice system to be.

Simply declaring the cash prior to entry would go a long way in alleviating all seizures. Not saying taking the money is right, but if the proper steps were followed, that wouldn't have been an option, unless of course something shady was going on.
09-11-2023 02:28 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #16
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 02:28 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 01:29 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Nah. It’s all the big cash transactions. Every transaction over the limit requires additional paperwork and a risk of being involved in some sort of illegal activity. I’m feel like we have gone overboard on regulations regarding cash. It’s one of the only places where it’s fine to assume guilt despite a complete absence of any proof of wrongdoing. The mere existence of a large amount of cash is considered in and of itself as proof of wrongdoing unless the holder can prove the cash was obtained via legal means.

It's not just banks, either. There are still many stories of people who, for one reason or another, were traveling with a large amount of cash and had it confiscated by authorities, despite there being no evidence of criminal activity. These seizures should be illegal without evidence of criminal activity. Often, the funds are never returned. The citizen has little to no recourse.

Absolutely. Thats largely what I was referring to with the comments about being considered guilty just by the mere presence of large amounts of cash. There are lots of legitimate cash business in the US. This automatic assumption that cash is related to drugs until proven otherwise seems completely unconstitutional to me (in a government confiscation the due process burden of proof should be on the government---not the citizen---especially if you've just confiscated their financial ability to hire legal help). I have never understood how that law continues to survive as it seemingly goes against everything the public largely believes our justice system to be.

Simply declaring the cash prior to entry would go a long way in alleviating all seizures. Not saying taking the money is right, but if the proper steps were followed, that wouldn't have been an option, unless of course something shady was going on.

Im not sure what your saying here. If your saying that you protect yourself by simply letting law enforcement know you have the cash before its found---thats not correct.

Under current law, the mere presence of cash is considered "evidence of a crime". Thats how they are able to seize it---its "evidence". "Declaring it" doesnt block that from happening to the best of my knowledge (in fact, it only invites the search that will yield the cash). The only way to avoid it being taken is to prevent the search from occurring. Once large amounts of cash are found in a search it can be taken---and declaring that you have large amounts of cash beforehand simply gives law enforcement reasonable cause to search (its no different from saying "I have a large amount of drugs in my car"). As has been pointed out----there is now a profit motive for departments and agencies to grab the cash anytime they can---otherwise, I suspect law enforcement would behave reasonably if you are a law abiding citizen and have a reasonable explanation for the cash.

Honestly---I thought these stories were total fabrication until I found out a few years ago that these kinds of outrageous seizures now happen all the time because its become a revenue stream for law enforcement.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2023 04:25 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-11-2023 04:01 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #17
RE: More bank accounts closed
Amish Mafia
09-11-2023 07:12 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  we all know why … it doesn’t fit the muh muh muh digital portfolio…

yeah, buggy, let the prelude to the next uncivil war begin…

Stink if you close the shops which are following proper procedures so as to avoid money laundering in the exchange of cash for precious metal, what you do is set up claims that anyone holding precious metal obtained it illegally. The burden of proof is then on the holder and confiscation becomes an available option to the Feds. Always keep receipts, always pay capital gains.

I see this as getting ready for a set up.
09-11-2023 07:16 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #19
RE: More bank accounts closed
Here is the bill to alter the current confiscation laws. Doesnt appear to me any progress on the bill has occurred since it was introduced on 06/14/2023


https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-cong...25/actions
09-11-2023 07:26 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #20
RE: More bank accounts closed
(09-11-2023 10:37 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Bank apparently saw too much risk from an AML perspective. The businesses were probably operating as MSBs (money service business) which is always considered high risk for any bank. Even if they weren't doing anything wrong, banks have the right to terminate relationships based on real or perceived risks, particularly business accounts. It's in every bank's terms and conditions that customers receive at account opening.

Why just now though? Apparently those are established businesses with established history and relationships with their banks. So the bank just suddenly decided that their business was too risky? I aint buying it. #digital
09-11-2023 07:28 PM
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