(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 01:42 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:24 AM)shere khan Wrote:  No propaganda in this.

Just send another billion. We are oh so close.

Suckers

Why do Americans care so much about Russia and Ukraine? It continues to elude me.

It's like the WWE with Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Rock and we're all in the stands. It's all fake but we just keep eating it up.

That's a royal 'We'.

Putin wont bend the knee to the globohomos. Its that simple

If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 01:42 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why do Americans care so much about Russia and Ukraine? It continues to elude me.

It's like the WWE with Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Rock and we're all in the stands. It's all fake but we just keep eating it up.

That's a royal 'We'.

Putin wont bend the knee to the globohomos. Its that simple

If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interesting take and all valid points.

My take is Trump would’ve countered with we will use all star war age weapons at our disposal so that you will fully understand that is going to cost you a great deal of pain ….. or we can talk about other things that might boost your economy and safety. Trump would NEVER accept or be able to handle the criticism without an argument that Putin paid.

But in no way do I see a NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY bending and giving one inch of Ukraine soil. It’s just NOT in their nature. My post grad Psychology degree has helped me greatly in life read personalities. Grandiose and ALL IMPORTANT is NEVER going to concede from a position of STRENGTH.

Remember Trump is not a politician but a deal maker business man. I’m sure he’d laid out all of the facts and scenarios for Putin who by the way for all of his ruthless dealings is still rational and only does things he believes will benefit him with little cost. He was sorely mislead in this endeavor.

Teddy Todor is going to volunteer.

(08-31-2023 11:54 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Teddy Todor is going to volunteer.

Nope, he'd rather be the propaganda minister for Russia in LC.

I can't understand why his love for Russia. Is he Russian? Are you Todor? Why do you think it was right for Russia to invade Ukraine?

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 01:42 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why do Americans care so much about Russia and Ukraine? It continues to elude me.

It's like the WWE with Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Rock and we're all in the stands. It's all fake but we just keep eating it up.

That's a royal 'We'.

Putin wont bend the knee to the globohomos. Its that simple

If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

(08-31-2023 01:23 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 11:54 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Teddy Todor is going to volunteer.

Nope, he'd rather be the propaganda minister for Russia in LC.

I can't understand why his love for Russia. Is he Russian? Are you Todor? Why do you think it was right for Russia to invade Ukraine?

I don’t love Russia. It interests me, I know a lot about it, and have a fair understanding of Russian people and Russian history. With that said, my knowledge and appreciation of Russia is no greater than it is of dozens of other topics. From countries, to religions, people, history and events to ideas and philosophies. Russia just happen to be in the right in this situation in my opinion.

I wouldn’t have to present the other side of the coin, an opposing view, or a different way to look at the situation if the American “free press” wasn’t owned and operated by the globalists, and if they did their job and used any level of objectivity at all. As they are, they are nothing but a PR firm dedicated to sucking as much American money out of the tax payers hands and out country as possible, and into the hands those that profit from the 2014 coup that they brag about funding, not to mention a hundred other conflicts they have shilled for.

Any other questions? And for the record, I’ve given this explanation multiple times. And this won’t be the last time, because sure enough, in another few weeks, someone else will ask the same questions and state that I refuse to reveal my reasoning or some other thing.

Ollie, the last part was not directed toward you individually, but to the board at large.

I’m not even saying that asking me about my views is a problem.

But an equally valid set of questions would regard who owns and controls 90% of what we see and hear, what their objectives are, and what they have they views THEY do.

I’m one person on a message board with my own opinion. I’m not the one that spends hundreds of billions per year and owns virtually all of the major media outlets world wide. I’m not the in the group that determines what news to print. I not the one who refuses to hire, or to subsequently fire anyone who dares cross my point of view.

Who am I “working” for? Who are THEY all working for? Who are THEIR sponsors? Who tells THEM what to say? Who decides what stories THEY cover? Who determines the point of view THEY are required to hold?

Or I suppose it’s possible that all of these people independently and objectively always reach the same conclusion on everything related to US foreign policy, and that it’s always correct, and the government itself had nothing to do with the conclusions they all collectively reach.

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Putin wont bend the knee to the globohomos. Its that simple

If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

(08-31-2023 10:45 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Putin wont bend the knee to the globohomos. Its that simple

If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interesting take and all valid points.

My take is Trump would’ve countered with we will use all star war age weapons at our disposal so that you will fully understand that is going to cost you a great deal of pain ….. or we can talk about other things that might boost your economy and safety. Trump would NEVER accept or be able to handle the criticism without an argument that Putin paid.

But in no way do I see a NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY bending and giving one inch of Ukraine soil. It’s just NOT in their nature. My post grad Psychology degree has helped me greatly in life read personalities. Grandiose and ALL IMPORTANT is NEVER going to concede from a position of STRENGTH.

Remember Trump is not a politician but a deal maker business man. I’m sure he’d laid out all of the facts and scenarios for Putin who by the way for all of his ruthless dealings is still rational and only does things he believes will benefit him with little cost. He was sorely mislead in this endeavor.

Not exactly sure which one you're calling a narcissist but IMHO they both have those strong tendencies at a minimum.

One other crucial point wrt to our elected officials is there hands are mostly tied. Consider what we always hear from politicians concerning deficits and the debt. No matter how great of a game they talk about cutting them and how they plan to get there - from both sides - the reality is there are significant limitations on how they can act. We have social security and medicare - and unless those get fundamentally reworked thru major bipartisan meetings/committees and broad based consensus building - probably on the level of a Bretton/Woods style of strategy meeting - we're largely resigned to follow the blueprints (with limited allowances for unique situations) we've inherited. In many ways Trump and Biden followed very similar foreign policy plans at the high level. They deviate from each other only on the smaller details.

(08-31-2023 03:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

Let's hear your take then.

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 05:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If Trump was in office instead of Biden, we’d be doing the exact same things we’re doing right now.

I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

Or if he starts borrowing trillions and staying 20 years and still ends up cutting and running with his tail between his legs, you could compare his moves to US strategy. And if he leaves billions of supplies behind in the process, you could even say he nailed it.

(08-31-2023 03:55 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

Let's hear your take then.

The globohomos and the eu baited russia

Russis said frick it. You cant have the ukraine withoutba fight and we have time

The media bleats, the sheep eat it up.

We spend 200 billion because we are retarded.

Putin is laughing while banging a 26 year old olympic gymnist. Or two.

Russia and china become bffs

People like you think you have a good bead on things

Everyone hates us

Dummies

(08-31-2023 04:10 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 11:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I disagree. Putin would never have felt free to invade while Trump was POTUS. I firmly believe Trump would have negotiated a deal to stop any invasion.

I think your take is significantly more speculative than mine. There is no way Putin was going to wait around much longer to pull the trigger and invade - especially not 4 years to hope for another Democrat who he thought would be weak militarily. He wanted Ukraine for the resources and the people to juice the poor demographics in Russia. While it's debatable whether Putin has the master plan that Zeihan claims to reclaim the old USSR satellite countries to plug all the invasion routes into Russia, I think Putin does want to expand the territories for financial gain at least. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine was not hollowed out nearly as much as he thought and I think he truly believed he'd have the entire country in a month with their agriculture, more sea access, more industrial might and the other resoures Ukraine had wrt fertilizer production.

Putin has been active for awhile trying to expand Russian territory and influence - even on Trump's watch. Trump has been beating the drum for NATO strengthening for some time and for Europe to diversity their natural gas sources so they were less reliant on Russia. Putin invades, Trump is likely they guy trying to give more money to Ukraine than Biden because...he's the best and he'd do anything to make his mark in history as a wartime leader.

Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

Or if he starts borrowing trillions and staying 20 years and still ends up cutting and running with his tail between his legs, you could compare his moves to US strategy. And if he leaves billions of supplies behind in the process, you could even say he nailed it.

I don't think you're going to find anyone on here that going to say the war in Afghanistan went just as planned, but I'm also not sure that two are comparable in terms of sunk cost (i.e. lives lost). The U.S. military suffered around 2,500 deaths over 20 years in Afghanistan, whereas estimates of Russian deaths vary from 75,000 - 120,000 over just a year and a half.

I like that people get so excited when they see news like this, but they have no idea who is actually doing a lot of the fighting in Ukraine.

It’s definitely not all these groups, as there is some actual Russian military there fighting, and not just commanders. But….Russia did empty its prisons, other criminal types like drug addicts who are trying to reform their standing in society by becoming veterans, some lunatics and nuts who would go fight for anything, foreigners who want citizenship, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmen, Kazakhs, minorities, the rural poor, the uneducated, your general dregs of humanity that contribute nothing to society, the long term unemployed who have been cut off welfare, not to mention, a large portion of people who used to be Ukrainian and are from the Donbass, Crimea, and other formerly Ukrainian territory.

There are also many units who are all from the Islamic regions of Russia like Chechnya, Dagestan, plus Crimeans, Ossetians, Abkhazians, Mordvins, Chuvash, a few thousand people from Transnistria, groups that have historical sympathy towards Ukraine such as Russian Catholics, Russian citizens who have been living outside Russia and have been coming and going with impunity after never serving their mandatory military service but were “suddenly” forced to serve starting about 6 months before the SMO began (lol), children of undesirable elements of society etc.

Nearly all Russian males serve mandated military service. There is a lot of free reign as to who gets sent to Ukraine. It is not random. A lot of careful consideration of myriad factors goes into who goes and who serves at home.

I would wager that few of the dead are going to be missed by society. There is simply no reason to send too many educated, highly trained, effective soldiers to Ukraine who are vital to the long term defense of Russia.

It’s essentially like the US military. West Point grads aren’t the primary ones out getting blown to bits by IED’s made by a bunch of guys in plastic flip flops hiding in irrigation ditches in the desert. Rich white suburban kids aren’t joining the military in large numbers. Who does join in large numbers are minorities and the poor, kids who are easily manipulated the tens of billions the military spends on advertising, misfits, people who could never go to college, people with nothing better to do, people with few other prospects etc.

The powers that be in DC are upset about how the Ukrainians are fighting the war. They apparently go against the advice of our military leaders. The administration knows they are losing the support of the American people.

It’s going to get harder and harder for our leaders to justify sending our tax dollars overseas for a losing cause.

(08-31-2023 04:18 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:55 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:44 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 03:42 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:43 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Interestingly----as I understand it---the war was largely sold to the Russian people as a necessary move to keep them safe. That may have been believable at first----but with the buying power of the ruble down substantially, the number of dead sons returning from the front soaring well past the horror of the entire Afghan War, an armed violent revolt inside Russian, talk of additional "mobilizations" taking more sons to the front, and now---drones nightly bringing the explosive shrapnel of war directly to the cities and towns of Russia---it must be becoming increasingly difficult for the average Russian to believe he is safer now than he was before the "Special Military Operation" began.

From what I can tell, Putin appears to be traveling down the same road as Tsar Nicholas II. He's falling for the sunk cost fallacy - just like Nicky 2 did - and will double down on winning the war or achieving some stalemate where he can bring some "concessions" back to Russia to show that despite the high cost of the war that the results were "worth it". In Putin's mind (IMHO), he loses then he's not only finished as the leader of Russia...he's a dead man.

Let's hear your take then.

The globohomos and the eu baited russia

Russis said frick it. You cant have the ukraine withoutba fight and we have time

The media bleats, the sheep eat it up.

We spend 200 billion because we are retarded.

Putin is laughing while banging a 26 year old olympic gymnist. Or two.

Russia and china become bffs

People like you think you have a good bead on things

Everyone hates us

Dummies

Uh huh….. Needs more detail to support your claims.

(08-31-2023 05:00 PM)Todor Wrote:  I like that people get so excited when they see news like this, but they have no idea who is actually doing a lot of the fighting in Ukraine.

It’s definitely not all these groups, as there is some actual Russian military there fighting, and not just commanders. But….Russia did empty its prisons, other criminal types like drug addicts who are trying to reform their standing in society by becoming veterans, some lunatics and nuts who would go fight for anything, foreigners who want citizenship, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmen, Kazakhs, minorities, the rural poor, the uneducated, your general dregs of humanity that contribute nothing to society, the long term unemployed who have been cut off welfare, not to mention, a large portion of people who used to be Ukrainian and are from the Donbass, Crimea, and other formerly Ukrainian territory.

There are also many units who are all from the Islamic regions of Russia like Chechnya, Dagestan, plus Crimeans, Ossetians, Abkhazians, Mordvins, Chuvash, a few thousand people from Transnistria, groups that have historical sympathy towards Ukraine such as Russian Catholics, Russian citizens who have been living outside Russia and have been coming and going with impunity after never serving their mandatory military service but were “suddenly” forced to serve starting about 6 months before the SMO began (lol), children of undesirable elements of society etc.

Nearly all Russian males serve mandated military service. There is a lot of free reign as to who gets sent to Ukraine. It is not random. A lot of careful consideration of myriad factors goes into who goes and who serves at home.

I would wager that few of the dead are going to be missed by society. There is simply no reason to send too many educated, highly trained, effective soldiers to Ukraine who are vital to the long term defense of Russia.

It’s essentially like the US military. West Point grads aren’t the primary ones out getting blown to bits by IED’s made by a bunch of guys in plastic flip flops hiding in irrigation ditches in the desert. Rich white suburban kids aren’t joining the military in large numbers. Who does join in large numbers are minorities and the poor, kids who are easily manipulated the tens of billions the military spends on advertising, misfits, people who could never go to college, people with nothing better to do, people with few other prospects etc.

Russia has lost a lot of generals. And several of their most elite units were decimated in the Kiev campaign. Now yes, they are enforcing quotas in minority and rural areas and not in Moscow and St. Petersburg, but they have definitely had important losses.

(08-31-2023 05:00 PM)Todor Wrote:  I like that people get so excited when they see news like this, but they have no idea who is actually doing a lot of the fighting in Ukraine.

It’s definitely not all these groups, as there is some actual Russian military there fighting, and not just commanders. But….Russia did empty its prisons, other criminal types like drug addicts who are trying to reform their standing in society by becoming veterans, some lunatics and nuts who would go fight for anything, foreigners who want citizenship, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmen, Kazakhs, minorities, the rural poor, the uneducated, your general dregs of humanity that contribute nothing to society, the long term unemployed who have been cut off welfare, not to mention, a large portion of people who used to be Ukrainian and are from the Donbass, Crimea, and other formerly Ukrainian territory.

There are also many units who are all from the Islamic regions of Russia like Chechnya, Dagestan, plus Crimeans, Ossetians, Abkhazians, Mordvins, Chuvash, a few thousand people from Transnistria, groups that have historical sympathy towards Ukraine such as Russian Catholics, Russian citizens who have been living outside Russia and have been coming and going with impunity after never serving their mandatory military service but were “suddenly” forced to serve starting about 6 months before the SMO began (lol), children of undesirable elements of society etc.

Nearly all Russian males serve mandated military service. There is a lot of free reign as to who gets sent to Ukraine. It is not random. A lot of careful consideration of myriad factors goes into who goes and who serves at home.

I would wager that few of the dead are going to be missed by society. There is simply no reason to send too many educated, highly trained, effective soldiers to Ukraine who are vital to the long term defense of Russia.

It’s essentially like the US military. West Point grads aren’t the primary ones out getting blown to bits by IED’s made by a bunch of guys in plastic flip flops hiding in irrigation ditches in the desert. Rich white suburban kids aren’t joining the military in large numbers. Who does join in large numbers are minorities and the poor, kids who are easily manipulated the tens of billions the military spends on advertising, misfits, people who could never go to college, people with nothing better to do, people with few other prospects etc.

One need only read the above post to understand why the people of so many nations bordering Russia dont want to be part of Russia.

(08-31-2023 05:00 PM)Todor Wrote:  I like that people get so excited when they see news like this, but they have no idea who is actually doing a lot of the fighting in Ukraine.

It’s definitely not all these groups, as there is some actual Russian military there fighting, and not just commanders. But….Russia did empty its prisons, other criminal types like drug addicts who are trying to reform their standing in society by becoming veterans, some lunatics and nuts who would go fight for anything, foreigners who want citizenship, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmen, Kazakhs, minorities, the rural poor, the uneducated, your general dregs of humanity that contribute nothing to society, the long term unemployed who have been cut off welfare, not to mention, a large portion of people who used to be Ukrainian and are from the Donbass, Crimea, and other formerly Ukrainian territory.

There are also many units who are all from the Islamic regions of Russia like Chechnya, Dagestan, plus Crimeans, Ossetians, Abkhazians, Mordvins, Chuvash, a few thousand people from Transnistria, groups that have historical sympathy towards Ukraine such as Russian Catholics, Russian citizens who have been living outside Russia and have been coming and going with impunity after never serving their mandatory military service but were “suddenly” forced to serve starting about 6 months before the SMO began (lol), children of undesirable elements of society etc.

Nearly all Russian males serve mandated military service. There is a lot of free reign as to who gets sent to Ukraine. It is not random. A lot of careful consideration of myriad factors goes into who goes and who serves at home.

I would wager that few of the dead are going to be missed by society. There is simply no reason to send too many educated, highly trained, effective soldiers to Ukraine who are vital to the long term defense of Russia.

It’s essentially like the US military. West Point grads aren’t the primary ones out getting blown to bits by IED’s made by a bunch of guys in plastic flip flops hiding in irrigation ditches in the desert. Rich white suburban kids aren’t joining the military in large numbers. Who does join in large numbers are minorities and the poor, kids who are easily manipulated the tens of billions the military spends on advertising, misfits, people who could never go to college, people with nothing better to do, people with few other prospects etc.

I like that guys likely named Ted pick the Russian version of that name (Todor) as a screen name and say they just find it all interesting. Lol