(08-29-2023 11:32 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:29 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:34 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 09:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The issue that Chutkan points out is that the defendant has/ had access to much of the discovery all along. In much of the documents, Trump actually has the documents.

If someone in court asks for a continuance based on 'Judge, *I* have possession of too many of my own documents to review in x months' --- that would be laughed out of court.

I will grant you Smith asked for a very aggressive first date -- Jan 2.

Trump asked for a laughably long time -- 2.5 years.

The judge actually asked them in the hearing if they had *any* other position than the holistically brain dead March 2026 -- they refused.

Given the Trump intransigence on sticking with a laughably long date -- Chutkhan came down with 7 mos. The downside of requesting, and sticking to, a date that is shallowly and excessively long.

Lastly, the issue is 11 million documents. Not in anyway an insurmountable issue in the modern legal world.
Added to that --- about 3 million are Secret Service documents, probably utterly useless to either party.
But included as caution to be over-inclusive.

In addition, probably 90% are duplicates. That is a document, a witness transcript where the witness is describing the document, along with a copy of the document.

You know that was completely bullshite as you typed it....

you going to court with 11 million documents in this time frame because the person you are defending had those papers? You're the lawyer that is fighting the case. Not the defendant. I dont usually call you names but damn you must be a stupid ass lawyer if you would go to court without knowing what the documents the government was going to use. Just because they once were in the procession of the defendant

Do you know what every file says that you have from the last 3 years? Have you actually even read every file you have? Going by what you said, you should and shouldn't need any time to read them. Like I said hatred for Trump makes common freaking sense just go out the damn window.

If 90% are duplicates wouldn't that still be over 6 million (1.1 that were not copies and 9.9 /2)? So lets give you the 3 million SS files (still dont know how you think if the government put them in there they are useless). As for those 3 million if something came up in court and you told the judge, sorry judge I thought they were "utterly useless" so now I need time to go over over them.....

the judge would eat you alive and be thinking...dumb***. Take that 3 million out and you still have over 3 million and that is still a lot for 7 months

It’s easier to hide chit in 11,000,000 pages. You’re gonna have to go through them all.

I’m surprised Clarence even gave it a try, although he completely ignores the real signature of government judicial harassment. THE DATE SET ON THE MONDAY BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY. Double lolzs, sparkles. Bummer.

Got it. Just more empty, no evidence chanting of rank conspiracy stuff. About what I expect from you, chuckles.....

Obvious truths are a "conspiracy theory" now. That is America in 2023.

Even you know there is no way on earth this would be happening if Trump was a democrat. You'll never admit it, you'll argue it into the ground and make snide comments to boot.

But you still know its a fact every bit as much as we do.

Anyway, carry on councilor.

(08-30-2023 12:11 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:32 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:29 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:34 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 09:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The issue that Chutkan points out is that the defendant has/ had access to much of the discovery all along. In much of the documents, Trump actually has the documents.

If someone in court asks for a continuance based on 'Judge, *I* have possession of too many of my own documents to review in x months' --- that would be laughed out of court.

I will grant you Smith asked for a very aggressive first date -- Jan 2.

Trump asked for a laughably long time -- 2.5 years.

The judge actually asked them in the hearing if they had *any* other position than the holistically brain dead March 2026 -- they refused.

Given the Trump intransigence on sticking with a laughably long date -- Chutkhan came down with 7 mos. The downside of requesting, and sticking to, a date that is shallowly and excessively long.

Lastly, the issue is 11 million documents. Not in anyway an insurmountable issue in the modern legal world.
Added to that --- about 3 million are Secret Service documents, probably utterly useless to either party.
But included as caution to be over-inclusive.

In addition, probably 90% are duplicates. That is a document, a witness transcript where the witness is describing the document, along with a copy of the document.

You know that was completely bullshite as you typed it....

you going to court with 11 million documents in this time frame because the person you are defending had those papers? You're the lawyer that is fighting the case. Not the defendant. I dont usually call you names but damn you must be a stupid ass lawyer if you would go to court without knowing what the documents the government was going to use. Just because they once were in the procession of the defendant

Do you know what every file says that you have from the last 3 years? Have you actually even read every file you have? Going by what you said, you should and shouldn't need any time to read them. Like I said hatred for Trump makes common freaking sense just go out the damn window.

If 90% are duplicates wouldn't that still be over 6 million (1.1 that were not copies and 9.9 /2)? So lets give you the 3 million SS files (still dont know how you think if the government put them in there they are useless). As for those 3 million if something came up in court and you told the judge, sorry judge I thought they were "utterly useless" so now I need time to go over over them.....

the judge would eat you alive and be thinking...dumb***. Take that 3 million out and you still have over 3 million and that is still a lot for 7 months

It’s easier to hide chit in 11,000,000 pages. You’re gonna have to go through them all.

I’m surprised Clarence even gave it a try, although he completely ignores the real signature of government judicial harassment. THE DATE SET ON THE MONDAY BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY. Double lolzs, sparkles. Bummer.

Got it. Just more empty, no evidence chanting of rank conspiracy stuff. About what I expect from you, chuckles.....

Obvious truths are a "conspiracy theory" now. That is America in 2023.

Even you know there is no way on earth this would be happening if Trump was a democrat. You'll never admit it, you'll argue it into the ground and make snide comments to boot.

But you still know its a fact every bit as much as we do.

Anyway, carry on councilor.

Yes, it is only happening because Trump is a republican. Sounds like a smashing leap of faith.

And no -- I dont take rank speculation as fact. That is probably a pretty major difference between us.

(08-30-2023 12:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Yes, it is only happening because Trump is a republican. Sounds like a smashing leap of faith.

For someone who professes to respect the integrity of our American system of justice, tanq., there is no one on this board who has done more than you to harm its reputation.

Whether it is a “leap of faith” or simply honest disgust on the part of the American citizenry, there are too many real and glaring instances of appallingly disparate treatment afforded to BLM/Antifa v. Jan. 6 defendants; Joe Biden/Hillary Clinton v. Donald Trump; Hunter Biden v. ANY other American facing tax or gun problems.

Sneering dismissiveness is your right. But it is far and away the least effective method of answering honest concerns about our system of American justice.

(08-30-2023 04:54 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 12:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Yes, it is only happening because Trump is a republican. Sounds like a smashing leap of faith.

For someone who professes to respect the integrity of our American system of justice, tanq., there is no one on this board who has done more than you to harm its reputation.

Whether it is a “leap of faith” or simply honest disgust on the part of the American citizenry, there are too many real and glaring instances of appallingly disparate treatment afforded to BLM/Antifa v. Jan. 6 defendants; Joe Biden/Hillary Clinton v. Donald Trump; Hunter Biden v. ANY other American facing tax or gun problems.

Sneering dismissiveness is your right. But it is far and away the least effective method of answering honest concerns about our system of American justice.

I wouldn't expect anything different from him unless you're into being disappointed.

Tanq is just trolling just like Xcentrick and a few others. They’ve made a stance against a specific person and so they have to keep it up no matter how outrageous or ridiculous the actions against him. Ignore them

So I guess we all should start preparing our defenses now for when the government comes to give us the shaft????

(08-29-2023 11:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:03 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 09:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The issue that Chutkan points out is that the defendant has/ had access to much of the discovery all along. In much of the documents, Trump actually has the documents.

If someone in court asks for a continuance based on 'Judge, *I* have possession of too many of my own documents to review in x months' --- that would be laughed out of court.

I will grant you Smith asked for a very aggressive first date -- Jan 2.

Trump asked for a laughably long time -- 2.5 years.

The judge actually asked them in the hearing if they had *any* other position than the holistically brain dead March 2026 -- they refused.

Given the Trump intransigence on sticking with a laughably long date -- Chutkhan came down with 7 mos. The downside of requesting, and sticking to, a date that is shallowly and excessively long.

Lastly, the issue is 11 million documents. Not in anyway an insurmountable issue in the modern legal world.
Added to that --- about 3 million are Secret Service documents, probably utterly useless to either party.
But included as caution to be over-inclusive.

In addition, probably 90% are duplicates. That is a document, a witness transcript where the witness is describing the document, along with a copy of the document.

SLURP

Too stupid to comment on facts or on the issue, so we get the above. Awesome.

Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

(08-30-2023 04:54 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 12:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Yes, it is only happening because Trump is a republican. Sounds like a smashing leap of faith.

For someone who professes to respect the integrity of our American system of justice, tanq., there is no one on this board who has done more than you to harm its reputation.

Whether it is a “leap of faith” or simply honest disgust on the part of the American citizenry, there are too many real and glaring instances of appallingly disparate treatment afforded to BLM/Antifa v. Jan. 6 defendants; Joe Biden/Hillary Clinton v. Donald Trump; Hunter Biden v. ANY other American facing tax or gun problems.

Sneering dismissiveness is your right. But it is far and away the least effective method of answering honest concerns about our system of American justice.

To denote 'it is only happening because Trump is Republican' is simply stupid in the most asinine manner. I will note your disagreement with that. And you angst.

No surprise on either reaction.

I can't find the article now but I read something yesterday that said Trump's lawyer had gone on a podcast and made conflicting statements with what he stated in court. The judge supposedly was aware of the statements and factored into the date decision. So this may be one of those instances where someone ran their mouth that shouldn't have...

(08-30-2023 08:19 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:03 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 09:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The issue that Chutkan points out is that the defendant has/ had access to much of the discovery all along. In much of the documents, Trump actually has the documents.

If someone in court asks for a continuance based on 'Judge, *I* have possession of too many of my own documents to review in x months' --- that would be laughed out of court.

I will grant you Smith asked for a very aggressive first date -- Jan 2.

Trump asked for a laughably long time -- 2.5 years.

The judge actually asked them in the hearing if they had *any* other position than the holistically brain dead March 2026 -- they refused.

Given the Trump intransigence on sticking with a laughably long date -- Chutkhan came down with 7 mos. The downside of requesting, and sticking to, a date that is shallowly and excessively long.

Lastly, the issue is 11 million documents. Not in anyway an insurmountable issue in the modern legal world.
Added to that --- about 3 million are Secret Service documents, probably utterly useless to either party.
But included as caution to be over-inclusive.

In addition, probably 90% are duplicates. That is a document, a witness transcript where the witness is describing the document, along with a copy of the document.

SLURP

Too stupid to comment on facts or on the issue, so we get the above. Awesome.

Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Glad you agree that the comment I responded to is simply empty and idiotic.

Quote:Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

Ive been around the block a time or two in the past in big ticket litigation. I look forward to your insights. That is, insights that actually have substance instead of idiocy and vitriol that seems to be the full hallmark of what you have noted in your last two posts.

(08-30-2023 07:13 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  Tanq is just trolling just like Xcentrick and a few others. They’ve made a stance against a specific person and so they have to keep it up no matter how outrageous or ridiculous the actions against him. Ignore them

My stance in this instance is against actions undertook. Replace Trump with any Chief Executive and I would have the exact same stance.

You complain to heaven above about my comments, yet strangely dont seem to be able to discuss them without that amounts to no more than an empty whine.

I look forward to substantive comments instead of personal whining. Have a great day.

(08-30-2023 08:36 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:19 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:03 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 09:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  The issue that Chutkan points out is that the defendant has/ had access to much of the discovery all along. In much of the documents, Trump actually has the documents.

If someone in court asks for a continuance based on 'Judge, *I* have possession of too many of my own documents to review in x months' --- that would be laughed out of court.

I will grant you Smith asked for a very aggressive first date -- Jan 2.

Trump asked for a laughably long time -- 2.5 years.

The judge actually asked them in the hearing if they had *any* other position than the holistically brain dead March 2026 -- they refused.

Given the Trump intransigence on sticking with a laughably long date -- Chutkhan came down with 7 mos. The downside of requesting, and sticking to, a date that is shallowly and excessively long.

Lastly, the issue is 11 million documents. Not in anyway an insurmountable issue in the modern legal world.
Added to that --- about 3 million are Secret Service documents, probably utterly useless to either party.
But included as caution to be over-inclusive.

In addition, probably 90% are duplicates. That is a document, a witness transcript where the witness is describing the document, along with a copy of the document.

SLURP

Too stupid to comment on facts or on the issue, so we get the above. Awesome.

Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Glad you agree that the comment I responded to is simply empty and idiotic.

Quote:Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

Ive been around the block a time or two in the past in big ticket litigation. I look forward to your insights. That is, insights that actually have substance instead of idiocy and vitriol that seems to be the full hallmark of what you have noted in your last two posts.

Man you're cool - I hope to be half as smart one day.

(08-30-2023 08:32 AM)mlb Wrote:  I can't find the article now but I read something yesterday that said Trump's lawyer had gone on a podcast and made conflicting statements with what he stated in court. The judge supposedly was aware of the statements and factored into the date decision. So this may be one of those instances where someone ran their mouth that shouldn't have...

Quote:“Mr. Lauro resisted answering your question on the exact time needed to review the documents because he doesn't want to admit that the technology would enable him to be prepared much earlier than 2026,” Gaston says. How does she know this? For several reasons. First, in advance of the indictment, the House select committee made public large amounts of evidence, and Trump himself posted many videos and messages on social media about the probe—material that is thus not new to the defense. When the indictment was finally unsealed, “Mr. Lauro called the indictment a regurgitation of the Jan. 6 Committee report.”

Second, there were five sealed proceedings between August 2022 and March 2023 about the scope of testimony for 14 grand jury witnesses. Chutkan nods at this point. Trump was therefore put on notice. And finally, Trump has a team of experienced attorneys working for him, including four counsels of record and two attorneys who attended arraignment and who were involved with pre-indictment preparations. Not to mention Lauro, himself, who has gone on television and podcasts outlining the details of the defense’s legal theory and noting how he’s read Mike Pence’s book twice and is planning a cross-examination accordingly. Chutkan again nods.

Lauro knows enough about the details of the 7.8 million pages of the J6 committee to say the indictment is nothing more than a regurgitation.

And, immediately post indictment when Pence made his fairly blunt statements about what transpired between him and Trump, which was within a day or so of the J6 indictment, Lauro made a point that he had already read Mike Pence's book, not just once, but twice -- and coulnt wait to use it in x-examination

Those tended to cut against his at this moment claims that they could not 'pre plan'.

(08-30-2023 08:46 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:36 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:19 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 10:03 PM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  SLURP

Too stupid to comment on facts or on the issue, so we get the above. Awesome.

Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Glad you agree that the comment I responded to is simply empty and idiotic.

Quote:Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

Ive been around the block a time or two in the past in big ticket litigation. I look forward to your insights. That is, insights that actually have substance instead of idiocy and vitriol that seems to be the full hallmark of what you have noted in your last two posts.

Man you're cool - I hope to be half as smart one day.

I'd settle for simply less than your verbal hissy fits above. If you want to discuss the nuts and bolts of what is happening -- I all for that.

If your level of return comment is "SLURP", or to a lesser extent your whine in your immediate next post -- yes, I'll treat you as the 7th grader that can toss out that level of discussion.

(08-30-2023 09:05 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:32 AM)mlb Wrote:  I can't find the article now but I read something yesterday that said Trump's lawyer had gone on a podcast and made conflicting statements with what he stated in court. The judge supposedly was aware of the statements and factored into the date decision. So this may be one of those instances where someone ran their mouth that shouldn't have...

Quote:“Mr. Lauro resisted answering your question on the exact time needed to review the documents because he doesn't want to admit that the technology would enable him to be prepared much earlier than 2026,” Gaston says. How does she know this? For several reasons. First, in advance of the indictment, the House select committee made public large amounts of evidence, and Trump himself posted many videos and messages on social media about the probe—material that is thus not new to the defense. When the indictment was finally unsealed, “Mr. Lauro called the indictment a regurgitation of the Jan. 6 Committee report.”

Second, there were five sealed proceedings between August 2022 and March 2023 about the scope of testimony for 14 grand jury witnesses. Chutkan nods at this point. Trump was therefore put on notice. And finally, Trump has a team of experienced attorneys working for him, including four counsels of record and two attorneys who attended arraignment and who were involved with pre-indictment preparations. Not to mention Lauro, himself, who has gone on television and podcasts outlining the details of the defense’s legal theory and noting how he’s read Mike Pence’s book twice and is planning a cross-examination accordingly. Chutkan again nods.

Lauro knows enough about the details of the 7.8 million pages of the J6 committee to say the indictment is nothing more than a regurgitation.

And, immediately post indictment when Pence made his fairly blunt statements about what transpired between him and Trump, which was within a day or so of the J6 indictment, Lauro made a point that he had already read Mike Pence's book, not just once, but twice -- and coulnt wait to use it in x-examination

Those tended to cut against his at this moment claims that they could not 'pre plan'.

Mike Pence couldnt exactly say what Trump told him in the debate. Maybe go back and re-watch that.

Pence, in a very recent interview, stated that if he were to refuse the state electors, the process would be chaotic and be sent to the house. Which is exactly what the law, which was recently changed, stated would happen.

Which part of Pence's statements are we supposed to believe at this point?

(08-30-2023 09:08 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:36 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:19 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-29-2023 11:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Too stupid to comment on facts or on the issue, so we get the above. Awesome.

Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Glad you agree that the comment I responded to is simply empty and idiotic.

Quote:Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

Ive been around the block a time or two in the past in big ticket litigation. I look forward to your insights. That is, insights that actually have substance instead of idiocy and vitriol that seems to be the full hallmark of what you have noted in your last two posts.

Man you're cool - I hope to be half as smart one day.

I'd settle for simply less than your verbal hissy fits above. If you want to discuss the nuts and bolts of what is happening -- I all for that.

If your level of return comment is "SLURP", or to a lesser extent your whine in your immediate next post -- yes, I'll treat you as the 7th grader that can toss out that level of discussion.

Guess how much I care about "what you would settle for"?

OH NO GUYS - THE SMARTEST LAWYER EVAHHHHH WANTS TO TREAT ME LIKE A 7th GRADER!!!!!

If he's already been found guilty by the court of the Awesome Democrat OVerlords then why have this farce of a trail.

Let the public execution begin.

(08-30-2023 08:32 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 04:54 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 12:19 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Yes, it is only happening because Trump is a republican. Sounds like a smashing leap of faith.

For someone who professes to respect the integrity of our American system of justice, tanq., there is no one on this board who has done more than you to harm its reputation.

Whether it is a “leap of faith” or simply honest disgust on the part of the American citizenry, there are too many real and glaring instances of appallingly disparate treatment afforded to BLM/Antifa v. Jan. 6 defendants; Joe Biden/Hillary Clinton v. Donald Trump; Hunter Biden v. ANY other American facing tax or gun problems.

Sneering dismissiveness is your right. But it is far and away the least effective method of answering honest concerns about our system of American justice.

To denote 'it is only happening because Trump is Republican' is simply stupid in the most asinine manner. I will note your disagreement with that. And you angst.

No surprise on either reaction.

You remain a curiosity in my book, tanq. BigTigerMike thinks that you are just an ordinary troll, fishing for reactions on this near-meaningless forum. And that would seem to be the simplest explanation.

But I actually think there is more depth to you than that. For me, the question is more complex and instead comes down to (i) whether you are a Trump plant or a progressive plant, one who is effectively stoking outrage amongst the right-leaning masses in order to displace any attention that would otherwise be paid to far more effective Republican candidates; or (ii) whether you honestly are as self-deluded as you present yourself here and truly think that your comments are based in fact and logic. They are not.

Either way, the end result is that when Trump is the eventual nominee it will come at the severe handicapping of the Republicans' chances of winning in the general election. Worse, that short-term gain for the Democrats will come at the more devastating long-term damage done to the nation's faith in our justice system.

And you will then be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know- - either with pride or shock, that's up to you - - that you and others like you had a hand in making that happen.

(08-30-2023 10:09 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  If he's already been found guilty by the court of the Awesome Democrat OVerlords then why have this farce of a trail.

Let the public execution begin.

There won't be a trial. And there won't be an execution.

Donald Trump is not the intended target of this misuse of our legal system. It is the American people who are the target.

(08-30-2023 09:56 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 09:08 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:46 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:36 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 08:19 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Yep, you nailed it. Stupid ol' me.

Glad you agree that the comment I responded to is simply empty and idiotic.

Quote:Nah - just glad you were here to lick up whatever your friends in the land of "justice" tell you to. You are a beacon of hope in this dark world. The rule of law is alive and well. Don't fear Comrades, the government will protect us.

Ive been around the block a time or two in the past in big ticket litigation. I look forward to your insights. That is, insights that actually have substance instead of idiocy and vitriol that seems to be the full hallmark of what you have noted in your last two posts.

Man you're cool - I hope to be half as smart one day.

I'd settle for simply less than your verbal hissy fits above. If you want to discuss the nuts and bolts of what is happening -- I all for that.

If your level of return comment is "SLURP", or to a lesser extent your whine in your immediate next post -- yes, I'll treat you as the 7th grader that can toss out that level of discussion.

Guess how much I care about "what you would settle for"?

Apparently you care enough to whine some more, as you do.

Quote:OH NO GUYS - THE SMARTEST LAWYER EVAHHHHH WANTS TO TREAT ME LIKE A 7th GRADER!!!!!

No, I said I will treat you as the 7th grader you seemingly act like. And continue to act like.

I mean, you seemingly cant rise above ranting and raving and name calling when something that cuts against your belief is put out. So yes, I will treat it as the intellectual and verbal temper tantrum that it boils down to.