(08-21-2023 07:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 07:25 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  I don't think the government should be involved in the EV market at all. But, it's clear that it is the future. Oil is a finite resource no matter what you believe. Have a friend who has one and he loves it. He's also a conservative and generally likes Trump. What's been weird is he occasionally gets a visceral reaction from some people people to the EV and now living in South Alabama. Including one person who started cussing at him being a liberal till he saw his MAGA bumper sticker.

Buy what you want. Some of the supposed facts about EV's being so bad are easily demonstrably wrong. Of course many facts about how good they are are wrong too. A lot of people letting politics fuel their feelings about a product. Which is pretty crazy to me that it's gotten that way.

That right there is the whole problem in a nutshell. The climate activists, far left big government and globalists do not what you to be able to buy what you want. They want to force you to buy what THEY want you to buy. And if you don't succumb to their political shaming and bully campaign then they will simply outlaw your preferred option.

And THAT is the key reason people react so negatively to EV's and the EV push now. If EV's were simply a new option on the market and sold as one of many you can freely choose from then it would never be political. If the government and globalists were not demanding we all change over to EV's in the name of their climate religion then this would not be a political issue at all.

So as much as you want to pretend this is the fault on traditional or conservative Americans, its not their fault this is now political. Its BIG CLIMATE and big government that has made this incredibly political.

And people can try to spin and re-tell that reality to deny it but its the truth of this and we all know it.

Who said anything about blaming conservatives or republicans. I certainly think liberals deserve more blame than anyone for making this political. However we are in a forum dominated by people on the right who in some instances have been making EV's a right vs left issue which is silly for me.

I don't think it does any favors for republicans to the general public either as some people feel like republicans are limiting their consumer choice in what they can buy. Which doesn't do the right any favors. Even doing the same thing the left is doing. Banning EV's https://www.newsweek.com/electric-cars-b...l-1774373. I have heard multiple republicans including the ones above talking about banning them. So no it's not just dems wanting to limit the people's options though I would say dems are a much bigger part of the issue.

I will as ever oppose government forcing people to buy anything or limiting options. It's a shame this is a political issue.

(08-21-2023 06:29 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I work in the industry. I'm really optimistic about the future based off of typical corporate knowledge. Regardless of your political affiliations, electric is the future in the same way that the internal combustion engine was the future to the horse.

You're all judging a decade of EV technology vs. 150+ years of ICE technology. One more decade, and this conversation will be moot.

K
Simple question for a simple man:

Where’s this lectricty gonna come from?

Biomass?

Why did Proterra (sp) and Solyndra both fail, costing billions?

Simply asking questions…

(08-21-2023 07:26 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 07:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  How will the electricity be generated?

Economies of scale benefits on all of the developing technologies that exist between the point of generation and you

Vaporware.

(08-21-2023 07:26 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 07:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 06:29 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I work in the industry. I'm really optimistic about the future based off of typical corporate knowledge. Regardless of your political affiliations, electric is the future in the same way that the internal combustion engine was the future to the horse.
You're all judging a decade of EV technology vs. 150+ years of ICE technology. One more decade, and this conversation will be moot.

How will the electricity be generated?

Economies of scale benefits on all of the developing technologies that exist between the point of generation and you

The issue is the left is shutting down new power generation at every opportunity they can get. They just got mines in Nevada delayed again that would have mined the very materials needed for these batteries. One of the reasons EV's are so expensive is the left world wide makes it very hard to get these materials.

(08-23-2023 02:20 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

This. The rest is a lie for suckers. I laugh st trsla drivers. What aholes

(08-21-2023 07:08 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2023 06:29 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I work in the industry. I'm really optimistic about the future based off of typical corporate knowledge. Regardless of your political affiliations, electric is the future in the same way that the internal combustion engine was the future to the horse.

You're all judging a decade of EV technology vs. 150+ years of ICE technology. One more decade, and this conversation will be moot.

ICE are not going to be replaced in our lifetimes.

The government is going to try to force it, but they are going to cause a massive economic disaster instead.

There are going to be more EV's on the road but the technology to travel multiple states, haul campers and equipment, move goods, etc. is WAY further out than 10 years away. Its probably closer to 40+ years away, and even that may be wishful thinking.

Hopefully before we get there enough people come to their senses and realize taking away ICE is not going to have any impact whatsoever on the climate and the climate/environmental impact is a MASSIVE net negative to go all electric across the board.

Right now a majority of the public is still a little too ignorant and unaware of the facts on this, but hopefully 10-15 years from now people are more educated on this and reject they lunacy of this.

Really accurate and insightful analysis of the EV push.

The economies of scale to have full blown EV across the USA for individual drivers AND the business of mass transit and logistics of goods across the country might be in place around 2065-70.

Kruciff neglects one important factor regarding EVs. Infrastructure will take decades to build out. Our grid could not support tens of millions of EVs charging at the same time. The government and power companies have been warned for decades now to harden our grid against EMP attacks and not one single thing has gotten done on that.

This lady and her husband rented a Tesla.

Quote:I Rented A Tesla For A Week And Am Totally Sold On Gas-Powered Cars

https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/21/i-r...ered-cars/

I have taken many trips in a Tesla and I drive it frequently. I have learned something about the benefits and drawbacks.

1. It is fast, very fast.
2. It is quiet
3. It is reliable.
4. A Tesla S is expensive but not so compared to luxury ICE cars. Other Tesla models are becoming competitive in price - especially when including tax credits
5. Software updates car like a IPhone.
6. It is cheaper in my area to charge rather than buy gas.
7. Charging for local driving can take place overnight at home. Level 2 EV charging delivers power like used for clothes dryers but may require modification.
8. Charging for road trips for a fee is available at Tesla Superchargers which are available on interstates at frequent intervals. Usually, I can get a sufficient charge within 30 minutes - longer than pumping gas. I have only had to wait for a stall one time, although I have read it is more common in some parts of the country.

(08-24-2023 02:32 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have taken many trips in a Tesla and I drive it frequently. I have learned something about the benefits and drawbacks.

1. It is fast, very fast.
2. It is quiet
3. It is reliable.
4. A Tesla S is expensive but not so compared to luxury ICE cars. Other Tesla models are becoming competitive in price - especially when including tax credits
5. Software updatesp car like a IPhone.
6. It is cheaper in my area to charge rather than buy gas.
7. Charging for local driving can take place overnight at home. Level 2 EV charging delivers power like used for clothes dryers but may require modification.
8. Charging for road trips for a fee is available at Tesla Superchargers which are available on interstates at frequent intervals. Usually, I can get a sufficient charge within 30 minutes - longer than pumping gas. I have only had to wait for a stall one time, although I have read it is more common in some parts of the country.

So i guess i have one too

Good dude. Dont try to make me drive one or help pay gor yours

(08-24-2023 02:32 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have taken many trips in a Tesla and I drive it frequently. I have learned something about the benefits and drawbacks.

1. It is fast, very fast.
2. It is quiet
3. It is reliable.
4. A Tesla S is expensive but not so compared to luxury ICE cars. Other Tesla models are becoming competitive in price - especially when including tax credits
5. Software updates car like a IPhone.
6. It is cheaper in my area to charge rather than buy gas.
7. Charging for local driving can take place overnight at home. Level 2 EV charging delivers power like used for clothes dryers but may require modification.
8. Charging for road trips for a fee is available at Tesla Superchargers which are available on interstates at frequent intervals. Usually, I can get a sufficient charge within 30 minutes - longer than pumping gas. I have only had to wait for a stall one time, although I have read it is more common in some parts of the country.

Nice update.

Looks like current technology can operate a normal passenger car fairly well. The push for industrial vehicles and equipment boggles my mind a bit. Why not take this thing one step at a time?

(08-24-2023 01:50 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Kruciff neglects one important factor regarding EVs. Infrastructure will take decades to build out. Our grid could not support tens of millions of EVs charging at the same time. The government and power companies have been warned for decades now to harden our grid against EMP attacks and not one single thing has gotten done on that.

This lady and her husband rented a Tesla.

Quote:I Rented A Tesla For A Week And Am Totally Sold On Gas-Powered Cars

https://thefederalist.com/2023/08/21/i-r...ered-cars/

I hope all prog filth buy two

(08-24-2023 03:09 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-24-2023 02:32 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have taken many trips in a Tesla and I drive it frequently. I have learned something about the benefits and drawbacks.

1. It is fast, very fast.
2. It is quiet
3. It is reliable.
4. A Tesla S is expensive but not so compared to luxury ICE cars. Other Tesla models are becoming competitive in price - especially when including tax credits
5. Software updatesp car like a IPhone.
6. It is cheaper in my area to charge rather than buy gas.
7. Charging for local driving can take place overnight at home. Level 2 EV charging delivers power like used for clothes dryers but may require modification.
8. Charging for road trips for a fee is available at Tesla Superchargers which are available on interstates at frequent intervals. Usually, I can get a sufficient charge within 30 minutes - longer than pumping gas. I have only had to wait for a stall one time, although I have read it is more common in some parts of the country.

So i guess i have one too

Good dude. Dont try to make me drive one or help pay gor yours

I am not an EV evangelist. I merely expressed my experience. And the vehicle in the garage was bought without outside aid.

FWIW, I do not favor the tax break, but it would be foolish not to take advantage of it for those interested.

As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

EV's by GM and VW may also juice at a Supercharger in the future.

https://www.cnet.com/home/tesla-supercha...s-for-you/

https://www.autonews.com/mobility-report...0Thursday.

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

My work has chargers in the parking lots. Not enough, but enough to cover the people that do use electric vehicles, and they are free to use. Some smart people that have worked there a long time only ever charge their vehicles at home or at work, and it's pennies compared to what they would be spending on gas. If you live in a state with friendly solar panel incentives, you could cut your local commute costs down to nothing but maintenance.

(08-26-2023 08:53 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

EV's by GM and VW may also juice at a Supercharger in the future.

https://www.cnet.com/home/tesla-supercha...s-for-you/

https://www.autonews.com/mobility-report...0Thursday.

Nissan, Honda, and Mercedes-Benz are too.

(08-26-2023 09:09 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

My work has chargers in the parking lots. Not enough, but enough to cover the people that do use electric vehicles, and they are free to use. Some smart people that have worked there a long time only ever charge their vehicles at home or at work, and it's pennies compared to what they would be spending on gas. If you live in a state with friendly solar panel incentives, you could cut your local commute costs down to nothing but maintenance.

Bear in mind this is today while there are incentives to induce people to buy EVs. Consumers are being shielded from the true costs.

The sad part about all of this is if the EV cars were clearly technically superior and a true logical next step - no subsidies would be needed since people would be moving into them of their own accord to get something clearly superior to what we have today.

Subsidies tell me that these are not technologically superior or cost effective. What it tells me is the government is trying to use the carrot approach to forcing me to switch. If not enough of us switch at a fast enough rate...then we'll be getting the stick soon. IOW, subsidies tell us that the product is not for your betterment but to push someone else's agenda - whether that is because these people get kick backs or to stroke their egos - it matters not. What matters is the government involvement is going to make this an unnecessarily horrible experience.

(08-26-2023 02:08 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-26-2023 09:09 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

My work has chargers in the parking lots. Not enough, but enough to cover the people that do use electric vehicles, and they are free to use. Some smart people that have worked there a long time only ever charge their vehicles at home or at work, and it's pennies compared to what they would be spending on gas. If you live in a state with friendly solar panel incentives, you could cut your local commute costs down to nothing but maintenance.

Bear in mind this is today while there are incentives to induce people to buy EVs. Consumers are being shielded from the true costs.

The sad part about all of this is if the EV cars were clearly technically superior and a true logical next step - no subsidies would be needed since people would be moving into them of their own accord to get something clearly superior to what we have today.

Subsidies tell me that these are not technologically superior or cost effective. What it tells me is the government is trying to use the carrot approach to forcing me to switch. If not enough of us switch at a fast enough rate...then we'll be getting the stick soon. IOW, subsidies tell us that the product is not for your betterment but to push someone else's agenda - whether that is because these people get kick backs or to stroke their egos - it matters not. What matters is the government involvement is going to make this an unnecessarily horrible experience.

The U.S. spends $20B a year in oil subsidies.

(08-26-2023 02:16 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-26-2023 02:08 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-26-2023 09:09 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-25-2023 05:44 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  As long as you can charge at home, and when you do travel away from home the Tesla supercharger network covers you they are great. Ford will be changing the MachE to the Tesla supercharger plug and getting access in 2025

My work has chargers in the parking lots. Not enough, but enough to cover the people that do use electric vehicles, and they are free to use. Some smart people that have worked there a long time only ever charge their vehicles at home or at work, and it's pennies compared to what they would be spending on gas. If you live in a state with friendly solar panel incentives, you could cut your local commute costs down to nothing but maintenance.

Bear in mind this is today while there are incentives to induce people to buy EVs. Consumers are being shielded from the true costs.

The sad part about all of this is if the EV cars were clearly technically superior and a true logical next step - no subsidies would be needed since people would be moving into them of their own accord to get something clearly superior to what we have today.

Subsidies tell me that these are not technologically superior or cost effective. What it tells me is the government is trying to use the carrot approach to forcing me to switch. If not enough of us switch at a fast enough rate...then we'll be getting the stick soon. IOW, subsidies tell us that the product is not for your betterment but to push someone else's agenda - whether that is because these people get kick backs or to stroke their egos - it matters not. What matters is the government involvement is going to make this an unnecessarily horrible experience.

The U.S. spends $20B a year in oil subsidies.

Yes, but not going directly to consumers. These EV subsidies are going directly to consumers in an attempt to make EVs competitive with ICE cars. But...subsidies for renewables are comparable to those received by the oil companies. And ironically, the renewables make up a small, small percentage of market share for power generation.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/...023-08-02/

Quote:U.S. subsidies for renewable energy producers more than doubled between 2016 and 2022, forming nearly half of all federal energy-related support in that period, a U.S. government report released on Tuesday showed.

Renewable subsidies jumped to $15.6 billion in fiscal year 2022 from $7.4 billion in fiscal year 2016, according to the Energy Information Administration's Federal Financial Interventions and Subsidies in Energy report.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/elec...the-us.php

Quote:Renewable energy sources provide an increasing share of U.S. electricity
Many renewable energy sources are used to generate electricity and were the source of about 22% of total U.S. electricity generation in 2022. In 1990, renewable resources provided about 12% of utility-scale electricity generation.

Renewables generate roughly 20% of the total power as of 2022 yet get subsidies that are 75% of what the fossil fuels companies get.