(08-20-2023 06:16 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 10:53 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I've always admired Poland. More especially when I learned of their border and immigration policies. Go figure, a government whose primary interests seem to be their own sovereignty and the welfare of their own people.

If you can visit Poland you should. Cracow (waywal cathedral, castle), Salt Mines, Warsaw, Toruń. Great trip for any architecture or history buff.

I bet it's outstanding. I'm not sure how anyone who is aware of what they went through at the hands of the Nazi's cannot have a soft spot for the Poles.

Prague, as well, is beautiful with and the architecture impressive. And TB4E, the Russian atrocities in Poland were equally atrocious. They essentially executed all of the officer corps of the Polish army after occupation. Where war is headed however, is alien to what has happened in Ukraine. When a real war and not an armed conflict arises, it will be far more horrible than anything that has been experienced previously. And what generations of weapons systems are used in it will be heretofore unknown except to those who developed them, whether ours, or those of our adversary. I think in some ways it may be akin to WWI in that the use of poison gas was so universally abhorrent it wasn't really used in WWII. Weapons used in the next one will likely be universally avoided thereafter.

Could have told you this in the late 80, early 90s

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

(08-20-2023 06:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 06:03 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 05:15 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 11:27 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Poland might be a much better place to retire to than #Costa.

lol ... let's not get carried away ... ya ain' catching these guys in Warsaw ...



#Dorado (mahi-mahi)

I've lived in Poland. Y'all don't know much about Poland:

Another nice string of fish!

yes, sir ... it also redefines when I actually like muh 'poles' ...

(08-20-2023 01:16 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Poland hasnt flooded its country with 3rd world retard barbarians and savages

They haven’t because they don’t need cheap, unskilled, third world labor. They ARE the cheap, unskilled, third world labor.

As an “friend” they will always cause a lot more problems than they ever help resolve. There’s a much better likelihood of Poland being the cause of the next war than of them ever helping resolve anything. All they have done for hundred of years is sit around with axes to grind and wallow in self pity about how their grand schemes always fall apart.

Oh wait, don’t people know, 1000 years ago “they was kangz an’ shite. They had an empire lol.

A large part of their economy is from remittances from the half of their population under 40 who is scrubbing England and Western Europes toilets.

(08-20-2023 06:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 06:16 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 10:53 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I've always admired Poland. More especially when I learned of their border and immigration policies. Go figure, a government whose primary interests seem to be their own sovereignty and the welfare of their own people.

If you can visit Poland you should. Cracow (waywal cathedral, castle), Salt Mines, Warsaw, Toruń. Great trip for any architecture or history buff.

I bet it's outstanding. I'm not sure how anyone who is aware of what they went through at the hands of the Nazi's cannot have a soft spot for the Poles.

Prague, as well, is beautiful with and the architecture impressive. And TB4E, the Russian atrocities in Poland were equally atrocious. They essentially executed all of the officer corps of the Polish army after occupation. Where war is headed however, is alien to what has happened in Ukraine. When a real war and not an armed conflict arises, it will be far more horrible than anything that has been experienced previously. And what generations of weapons systems are used in it will be heretofore unknown except to those who developed them, whether ours, or those of our adversary. I think in some ways it may be akin to WWI in that the use of poison gas was so universally abhorrent it wasn't really used in WWII. Weapons used in the next one will likely be universally avoided thereafter.

They murdered 20,000 Polish officers after the Russian-Polish war was over in Katyn Forest. I've seen Russian sympathizers defend that (not on this board). They believe Russia can do no wrong. Poland knows better.

(08-20-2023 05:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look boys and girls, the bottom line here is if you rely on Poland to prop you up in a major war, you are hosed! All this Poland talk to me is nothing but defeatism. There is but one superpower capable of standing up successfully to China, and keeping Russia at bay on the nuclear issue and that is U.S.

If we no longer trust U.S. to get it done what Poland is or isn't is a fart in the whirlwind of the crap storm headed our way. All the drones in the world doing phenomenal things won't ultimately win us a victory if we send the sheltered safe space fairy brigade into to mop up! Or if our sold-out traitorous administration taking Chinese funds won't commit when the time makes it an imperative.

What we all fear is that our trigger is broken at the White House and that the ground troops, mostly due to political posturing at home, will be ill trained and emotionally unprepared to do what is necessary and will miss fire in their mission.
And all of the confidence in the world in Poland won't change a damn thing about that! And if that is what you seriously pin hopes upon you are a fool!

You've all been reading your own crap here too long and your damn brains are warped. Our problem is U.S. What Poland does or doesn't do is wholly irrelevant!

Obviously---the US is the lynch pin. That doesnt mean its not an asset to have allied nations who can throw in a half a million highly motivated well trained troops who can bring the same high end equipment we use to the fight. In other words, if it comes to an actual fight, Id rather have Poland on my side than Belarus.

Well, you always dismiss the forest to look at a single tree! If the lynch pin doesn't meet specs what are your chances? At that point Poland is irrelevant is it not? And that is what I was saying, not anything else. If the troop strength of Poland is important you have already lost the engagement! It won't be just Russia and we both know that.

To be fair---I never said Poland was our salvation. I simply said Im impressed with what they are doing and Im glad they are an ally. Wish we had more like them.

I couldnt agree more with respect to being critical of the poor decision making of many of our military leaders over the last decade or two (and have said so multiple times). That said---Im not as down on the US military as many are.

To me, there is a HUGE difference between pointing out the errors/mistakes of US military leadership and assuming our peer adversaries will be fielding a much better military than we do. For instance, after 500+ days of war, its pretty darn clear the Russian military is not anywhere even close to what it was cracked up to be. The same corruption and misuse of military funds that permeate the Russian military model is alive and well in China. We certainly face a more dangerous peer threat world today and we could definitely have done things to be more more prepared than we are---that doesnt mean we still arent better positioned militarily than anyone else in the world. That said---its well past time to begin a Reagan "Star Wars" level initiative designed to return the US to the days when there was a massive gap between the US military capabilities with respect to the capabilities our "peer" military threats. I remain optimistic about our future--though its getting more difficult to remain so under the current leadership. Hopefully we get some help in the leadership department in 2024.

(08-20-2023 11:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 05:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Look boys and girls, the bottom line here is if you rely on Poland to prop you up in a major war, you are hosed! All this Poland talk to me is nothing but defeatism. There is but one superpower capable of standing up successfully to China, and keeping Russia at bay on the nuclear issue and that is U.S.

If we no longer trust U.S. to get it done what Poland is or isn't is a fart in the whirlwind of the crap storm headed our way. All the drones in the world doing phenomenal things won't ultimately win us a victory if we send the sheltered safe space fairy brigade into to mop up! Or if our sold-out traitorous administration taking Chinese funds won't commit when the time makes it an imperative.

What we all fear is that our trigger is broken at the White House and that the ground troops, mostly due to political posturing at home, will be ill trained and emotionally unprepared to do what is necessary and will miss fire in their mission.
And all of the confidence in the world in Poland won't change a damn thing about that! And if that is what you seriously pin hopes upon you are a fool!

You've all been reading your own crap here too long and your damn brains are warped. Our problem is U.S. What Poland does or doesn't do is wholly irrelevant!

Obviously---the US is the lynch pin. That doesnt mean its not an asset to have allied nations who can throw in a half a million highly motivated well trained troops who can bring the same high end equipment we use to the fight. In other words, if it comes to an actual fight, Id rather have Poland on my side than Belarus.

Well, you always dismiss the forest to look at a single tree! If the lynch pin doesn't meet specs what are your chances? At that point Poland is irrelevant is it not? And that is what I was saying, not anything else. If the troop strength of Poland is important you have already lost the engagement! It won't be just Russia and we both know that.

To be fair---I never said Poland was our salvation. I simply said Im impressed with what they are doing and Im glad they are ally. Wish we had more like them.

I couldnt agree more with respect to being critical of the poor decision making of many of our military leaders over the last decade or two (and have said so multiple times). That said---Im not as down on the US military as many are.

To me, there is a HUGE difference between pointing out the errors/mistakes of US military leadership and assuming our peer adversaries will be fielding a much better military than we do. For instance, after 500+ days of war, its pretty darn clear the Russian military is not anywhere even close to what it was cracked up to be. The same corruption and misuse of military funds that permeate the Russian military model is alive and well in China. We certainly face a more dangerous peer threat world today and we could definitely have done things to be more more prepared than we are---that doesnt mean we still arent better positioned militarily than anyone else in the world. That said---its well past time to begin a Reagan "Star Wars" level initiative designed to return the US to the days when there was a massive gap between the US military capabilities with respect to the capabilities our "peer" military threats. I remain optimistic about our future--though its getting more difficult to remain so under the current leadership. Hopefully we get some real help in 2024.

The failure to discourage your enemies through preparedness and a degree of weapons superiority only courts disaster. We can't afford for any of them to feel there is even a remote chance of success. I'd say they were pretty bold. I went to hear Gorbachev speak about a decade ago. He warned Chinese students to leave the states and return home and not to intermarry. He didn't elaborate, but to my ears he didn't need to. He was essentially telling them their education here was for purposes back home and that staying was not only a breach of that but would be not in their best interests, the implication seemed to be to imply such a decision would be perilous. The question immediately in my mind was "To whom would it be perilous, and why?" Having him here on my campus speaking to our students and directing such remarks directly to Chinese students seemed a bold thing to do. I've been overly suspicious ever since, already knowing China's approach to the dollars status since 1992 and their plans to undermine it.

Well, here we are, and I sense we have an adversary who is confident of their plans. And I don't like it a damn little bit! And when we have disciples of our enemies in 1968 in power in our government, it only emboldens those who think their time has arrived.

(08-20-2023 06:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 06:16 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 03:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 10:53 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  I've always admired Poland. More especially when I learned of their border and immigration policies. Go figure, a government whose primary interests seem to be their own sovereignty and the welfare of their own people.

If you can visit Poland you should. Cracow (waywal cathedral, castle), Salt Mines, Warsaw, Toruń. Great trip for any architecture or history buff.

I bet it's outstanding. I'm not sure how anyone who is aware of what they went through at the hands of the Nazi's cannot have a soft spot for the Poles.

Prague, as well, is beautiful with and the architecture impressive. And TB4E, the Russian atrocities in Poland were equally atrocious. They essentially executed all of the officer corps of the Polish army after occupation. Where war is headed however, is alien to what has happened in Ukraine. When a real war and not an armed conflict arises, it will be far more horrible than anything that has been experienced previously. And what generations of weapons systems are used in it will be heretofore unknown except to those who developed them, whether ours, or those of our adversary. I think in some ways it may be akin to WWI in that the use of poison gas was so universally abhorrent it wasn't really used in WWII. Weapons used in the next one will likely be universally avoided thereafter.

I pray the Tic-Tac is ours.

(08-20-2023 11:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2023 11:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  To me, there is a HUGE difference between pointing out the errors/mistakes of US military leadership and assuming our peer adversaries will be fielding a much better military than we do. For instance, after 500+ days of war, its pretty darn clear the Russian military is not anywhere even close to what it was cracked up to be. The same corruption and misuse of military funds that permeate the Russian military model is alive and well in China. We certainly face a more dangerous peer threat world today and we could definitely have done things to be more more prepared than we are---that doesnt mean we still aren't better positioned militarily than anyone else in the world. That said---its well past time to begin a Reagan "Star Wars" level initiative designed to return the US to the days when there was a massive gap between the US military capabilities with respect to the capabilities our "peer" military threats. I remain optimistic about our future--though its getting more difficult to remain so under the current leadership. Hopefully we get some real help in 2024.

The failure to discourage your enemies through preparedness and a degree of weapons superiority only courts disaster. We can't afford for any of them to feel there is even a remote chance of success. I'd say they were pretty bold. I went to hear Gorbachev speak about a decade ago. He warned Chinese students to leave the states and return home and not to intermarry. He didn't elaborate, but to my ears he didn't need to. He was essentially telling them their education here was for purposes back home and that staying was not only a breach of that but would be not in their best interests, the implication seemed to be to imply such a decision would be perilous. The question immediately in my mind was "To whom would it be perilous, and why?" Having him here on my campus speaking to our students and directing such remarks directly to Chinese students seemed a bold thing to do. I've been overly suspicious ever since, already knowing China's approach to the dollars status since 1992 and their plans to undermine it.
Well, here we are, and I sense we have an adversary who is confident of their plans. And I don't like it a damn little bit! And when we have disciples of our enemies in 1968 in power in our government, it only emboldens those who think their time has arrived.

The Chinese military is also less threatening than its numbers would suggest because a fair portion of it is tied down maintaining order at home. They don't have a posse comitatus statute to worry about. The sheer size is intimidating, but not all of those numbers would be available for combat. Also, with respect to a possible invasion of Taiwan, all those numbers don't matter unless and until they can get them across the strait to Taiwan, and no matter what means they choose to transport them, they will be very vulnerable in transit. What they can do to Taiwan is kind of a Battle of Britain scenario where they pummel them with missiles until they break and surrender. Taiwan's ability to defend against such missile strikes and destroy any invasion force in transit are the keys to defending the island from China.

As I have said before, I think we should return to JFK's "2-1/2 war" standard (be able to fight simultaneously two peer wars plus a rogue nation/terror group) of the 1960s, or alternatively ADM Sir Jackie Fisher's "two power" concept (RN stronger than the next two navies in the world) of WWI vintage. The USA military should be at least as powerful as China plus Russia. We are not there now. I've laid out my 600-ship navy proposal, and would rely on someone more familiar with army and air force to lay out equivalent proposals for them. I would make it more affordable by doing it the same way that Israel, Sweden, and Switzerland--and, for that matter, China and Russia--do theirs, by converting about 400,000 active duty positions to 1,000,000 reserves at a 50% cost savings. I would also cut administrative overhead that accounts for about 75% of our military expenditures--the USNavy has 284 admirals for 290 ships, for example, probabaly at least twice as many admirals (for half as many ships) as it needs. We don't need more people in and around the Pentagon than it took to win WWII. And I would reform procurement by going back to using systems that have been proved to work instead of relying on vaporware like the Ford class aircraft carriers ($15B each, and everything works except the catapults, arresting gear, weapons lifts--and toilets). Spend less of fancy unproved systems and more on basic maintenance and training. We could get there, but we are not headed in that direction now.