(06-16-2023 08:56 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote: (06-16-2023 12:55 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (06-16-2023 12:36 PM)200yrs2late Wrote: (06-16-2023 10:23 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: (06-16-2023 10:12 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote: ![[Image: fd8130dbbdded233.png]](https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/140/561/536/original/fd8130dbbdded233.png)
Lying to the Feds, submitting a false sworn declaration, actively hiding classified documents from searches, blowing off grand jury subpoenas, telling your lawyers to destroy evidence --- is a "paperwork dispute"?
The things you learn from twitter.
The issue is that I do believe that Schiff should be censured, or worse. No doubt. Schiff's role in Russiagate and actively propelling that in the absence of real evidence is sickening.
But Kirk blows his foot off in the intro.
Kirk's tweet highlights the *major* problem with both sides presently.
Unfortunately the thing is we don't know that it was really anything more than a paperwork dispute. Do you trust any of the govt agencies involved to take what they claim at face value when reading the indictment? Whether you love, hate, tolerate, or hold any level of disdain for Trump on a personal level its almost impossible to deny that every level of the establishment or 'deep state' has been after him with virtually all of the power at their disposal since he won the republican nomination for 16. It's the govt's word against Trump's and we saw what they did to him while in office. Given the weakness of their previous attempts to impeach him and the years of 100% lying, I don't know that you could find 12 jurors that would agree to convict him.
It very could have been at the outset a mere paperwork dispute. No doubt here on that.
Trump *chose* to perform every action to escalate it to far more than an easliy solved paperwork dispute.
I dont understand the 'its the Govts word'. The facts are simple, and are in the judicial record.
Trump took a lot of stuff that he shouldnt have.
NARA said we need some of the things back.
Trump sent some back, and sent back some highly classified material.
NARA forwarded this to the DOJ.
The DOJ Counter Intel folks tried to get more back of what they suspected was still there.
Trump stonewalled.
DOJ got a subpoena.
Trump actively obstructed the subpoena, in various ways.
Trump, after hoodwinking his own attorneys, and after telling his own attorneys to lie, sent back 15 documents. He also submitted a declaration under oath that no other documents were there.
The DOJ got ahold of the videos of the areas, which showed a *lot* of boxes flowing hither and yonder, and became even more suspicious that there were more documents, and became concerned that the declaration was false. Itself a felony.
They then got a warrant and executed a search a seizure. And found a trove of stuff that proved that Trump lied in the declaration, at a minimum.
He had multiple branch points to de-escalate, and instead, decided to otherwise. Some of the actions of those 'otherwise' decisions are themselves criminal acts.
It *could* have been nothing more than a paperwork error. Trump worked diligently to escalate it to far more than a paperwork error.
You pinhead moronotron.
When you cant cite facts, go 7th grade name calling. Brilliant.
Quote:The government criminals worked hard and diligently to make this into more than a paperwork dispute.
And at each and every turn that *Trump* could have de-escalated -- he didnt. Yep, poor Trump. Poor victim Trump.
I would agree with *if* Trump had taken *any* opportunity to 'come clean'. He didnt.
No one put a gun to his head and said 'pack up the classified documents and leave with them.'
No one put a gun to his head and said 'refuse to turn them over to NARA'.
No one put a gun to his head and said 'refuse to turn them over after a simple request by the DOJ.'
No one put a gun to his head and said 'tell your attorneys to lie about them in responding to the subpoena.'
No one put a gun to his head and said 'hide the documents from your attorneys so they wont find them'.
No one put a gun to his head and said 'ensure the attorney search will fail, and make sure the attorneys submit a false declaration.'
Did someone *force* Donald to do *any* of the above? Love to hear it if you can. Facts. Not whiny stuff like above. Im all ears.
On top of that, no one put a gun to Donald's head and said 'you must refer to Classified Documents' as "my documents".
All of that is in the record, most of that is in a record that Donald had every ability to challenge -- and did not.
But here you are crying in the street about how Donald is the poor, poor victim. And apparently the big, bad, evil government folks forced Donald to do all of those steps above. Pretty impressive feat if true..... lolz.
Quote:And gullible wanna be lawyers such as yourself read this indictment as the final truth.
I read the facts stated as such. I doubt Trump will have any counter facts to those that are in the indictment and noted as sworn testimony in front of the grand jury.
Quote:I’ll give you a chance out now. Do you think this will go to court? How much more “evidence” do you think will “leak out” between now and the time this whole sordid affair is filed away as another soft coup?
Soft coup? Donald doesnt even hold an office, dude.....
I'll give you an out --
Did someone *force* Donald to do *any* of the above? Please state all the facts that show Trump was forced into all or any of his actions above.
Or jsut cry, whine, and keep slinging your fists into the sand pile which in a verbal-style temper tantrum which you seemingly do in your last post.
A+ for crying and gnashing your teeth.
C on rhetoric.
F on anything substantive.
A- on middle school style name-calling.