(06-16-2023 08:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  The bigger question is why Trump's documents were so more of a national threat than all the others... who you all know damn well took documents as well an no one said a word.

Yep, the simple fact only one has been indicted tells 100% that this is solely partisan politics. I can't believe others are so blind and beholden that that actually go along with it.

Again with this nonsense? There's not been one former president shown to have done ANYTHING even REMOTELY similar.

Other than Obama as well as vice presidents Pence and Biden. There were months of back and forth between Obama and NARA.

Good post, 200 yr.

My only issue is your last sentence. Venue shopping can easily find places where ANY person on the right would have difficulty getting a fair shake. Washington, D.C. and NYC are two of them.

(06-16-2023 12:38 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  A crooked lawyer that trusts other crooked lawyers seems like an oxymoron.

No, that's a club. Not the weapon, but an informal organization.

(06-16-2023 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:22 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:08 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:01 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 07:49 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Interesting...sorta sounds like the stuff of dictators. Which is exactly why I say trump is a threat to our democracy.

But as you hint at...there's zero guarantee this would be done solely for our country and NOT for him personally.

Trump is far from anything resembling a dictator. His actions were likewise far from any that a dictator would have taken.

Mostly because he's not currently in the WH. God help us if he's elected again.

Yeah, God help us. We certainly don’t need a person who has demonstrated he’ll put America first and build a booming economy. We need a senile pedo beholden to the Chinks and driving inflation thru the roof instead. Good times!

I especially love how he caused a global pandemic and global inflation. He's quite powerful for a vegetable, huh?!?

You are referring to Governor Cuomo, Speaker Pelosi (go to Chinatown), Mayor de Blasio or Dr. Fauci?

(06-16-2023 12:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  The bigger question is why Trump's documents were so more of a national threat than all the others... who you all know damn well took documents as well an no one said a word.

Yep, the simple fact only one has been indicted tells 100% that this is solely partisan politics. I can't believe others are so blind and beholden that that actually go along with it.

Again with this nonsense? There's not been one former president shown to have done ANYTHING even REMOTELY similar.

Other than Obama as well as vice presidents Pence and Biden. There were months of back and forth between Obama and NARA.

Simply not in any way true.

(06-16-2023 12:43 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:22 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:08 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:01 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Trump is far from anything resembling a dictator. His actions were likewise far from any that a dictator would have taken.

Mostly because he's not currently in the WH. God help us if he's elected again.

Yeah, God help us. We certainly don’t need a person who has demonstrated he’ll put America first and build a booming economy. We need a senile pedo beholden to the Chinks and driving inflation thru the roof instead. Good times!

I especially love how he caused a global pandemic and global inflation. He's quite powerful for a vegetable, huh?!?

You are referring to Governor Cuomo, Speaker Pelosi (go to Chinatown), Mayor de Blasio or Dr. Fauci?

No, no, no, and no.

My God, it wasn't that difficult. I was replying to the last part of his post. He's blaming all the US inflation on Biden. The whole globe is dealing with inflation...most all of those inflationary problems were a direct result of the pandemic.

(06-16-2023 11:50 AM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  I just don’t agree with your reasoning AM. The democrats are not that smart. Nor or they that sure of being able to cheat their way in this time. It is just as likely Trump has baited them. They really really really want to see Trump in jail. Sadly they have convinced many logical people to think the same way. The constant drone of hate and censorship is proven through history to work. It convinced millions of normal people to gas millions of innocent others. Powerful stuff.

Trump is a threat to the deep state. That is reason they want him gone. They will stop at nothing to stop him. I really am afraid when they go nuclear that many such as yourself and otherwise good people will just say “oh well, he deserved it. He was obnoxious.”

Our country is probably irreversibly divided. Sanity is being attacked. Any aspect of God and religion, other than Islam is being mocked and attacked. The majority are not yet provoked enough to respond with equal vigor. The awakening of that majority will be the only hope America has.

Good, sound response as per your usual, WMSE. And am aware that most on this board will side with you and think very little of me. Sadly for all of you, I am old enough not to care.

But I will take issue with the two bolded statements.

Bolded statement #1: I don't know what you mean by "go nuclear". If it means electoral destruction, in which Donald Trump withdrawals from the primaries by early February in humiliating disgrace, then yeah I'm down with that. But if it means that he's wrongfully convicted or worse, then no I am not okay with that. Not at all. I like to think that I've been consistent on this front.

Bolded statement #2: I 100% agree. Our nation is badly in need of an awakening. Is Donald Trump the vehicle to make that happen? His supporters clearly think so. I don't. I think he is nothing but a one-way ticket to more needless anguish for our country. We do not deserve any more of his brand of "winning".

(06-16-2023 12:36 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 10:23 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 10:12 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

Lying to the Feds, submitting a false sworn declaration, actively hiding classified documents from searches, blowing off grand jury subpoenas, telling your lawyers to destroy evidence --- is a "paperwork dispute"?

The things you learn from twitter.

The issue is that I do believe that Schiff should be censured, or worse. No doubt. Schiff's role in Russiagate and actively propelling that in the absence of real evidence is sickening.

But Kirk blows his foot off in the intro.

Kirk's tweet highlights the *major* problem with both sides presently.

Unfortunately the thing is we don't know that it was really anything more than a paperwork dispute. Do you trust any of the govt agencies involved to take what they claim at face value when reading the indictment? Whether you love, hate, tolerate, or hold any level of disdain for Trump on a personal level its almost impossible to deny that every level of the establishment or 'deep state' has been after him with virtually all of the power at their disposal since he won the republican nomination for 16. It's the govt's word against Trump's and we saw what they did to him while in office. Given the weakness of their previous attempts to impeach him and the years of 100% lying, I don't know that you could find 12 jurors that would agree to convict him.

It very could have been at the outset a mere paperwork dispute. No doubt here on that.

Trump *chose* to perform every action to escalate it to far more than an easliy solved paperwork dispute.

I dont understand the 'its the Govts word'. The facts are simple, and are in the judicial record.

Trump took a lot of stuff that he shouldnt have.

NARA said we need some of the things back.

Trump sent some back, and sent back some highly classified material.

NARA forwarded this to the DOJ.

The DOJ Counter Intel folks tried to get more back of what they suspected was still there.

Trump stonewalled.

DOJ got a subpoena.

Trump actively obstructed the subpoena, in various ways.

Trump, after hoodwinking his own attorneys, and after telling his own attorneys to lie, sent back 15 documents. He also submitted a declaration under oath that no other documents were there.

The DOJ got ahold of the videos of the areas, which showed a *lot* of boxes flowing hither and yonder, and became even more suspicious that there were more documents, and became concerned that the declaration was false. Itself a felony.

They then got a warrant and executed a search a seizure. And found a trove of stuff that proved that Trump lied in the declaration, at a minimum.

He had multiple branch points to de-escalate, and instead, decided to otherwise. Some of the actions of those 'otherwise' decisions are themselves criminal acts.

It *could* have been nothing more than a paperwork error. Trump worked diligently to escalate it to far more than a paperwork error.

(06-16-2023 12:53 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Bolded statement #2: I 100% agree. Our nation is badly in need of an awakening. Is Donald Trump the vehicle to make that happen? His supporters clearly think so. I don't. I think he is nothing but a one-way ticket to more needless anguish for our country. We do not deserve any more of his brand of "winning".

So, let's go back to the standard issue, milquetoast Republican that talks a great game but then doesn't do sh!t?

Look at the list of GOP candidates who are 'running' to be President.

DeSantis - no charisma, poor speaker. Of all the 'others' he is the only one who might actually DO something.

Mike Pence - establishment all the way. No charisma. Same old, same old. Hell no.

Tim Scott - don't have much negative to say, but for me, he doesn't move the needle much. Says a lot that sounds good but......no track record.

Nikki Haley - another establishment hack. Hell no.

Vivek Ramaswamy - outsider, says a lot that sounds good. No political experience.

Chris Christie - Another establishment hack who just wants more power. Hell no.

Asa Hutchinson - Yet another establishment hack. Hard pass.

Doug Burgum - a mostly unknown former software entrepreneur, 2 time North Dakota Governor. Doesn't move the needle a mm

Larry Elder - while I like him as a commentator, he has no political experience

Francis Suarez - Announced a run on June 15, 2 term Miami Mayor and President of the U.S. Conference of Mayors. Not enough info on him.



The GOP is trying their hardest to ignore the will of a large segment of their base and push anybody but Trump. They want establishment candidates which will insure that their status as "surrender monkeys" will not change and of course, nothing will change in D.C.

The reason many support Trump is that he is beholden to nobody - doesn't need their $$, and supporters feel that he is fighting for them, to stop the onslaught of the government against the people.

We are not electing a pastor for our church. Trump has lots of personal personality issues that some cite as the reason they won't vote for him. I simply ask these people, "do you want change?" If yes, none of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of DeSantis, will bring change. The others will bring more of the same that we've seen. RESULTS matter and Trump does have a track record, all in the face of relentless attacks by the left and the establishment right.

(06-16-2023 01:22 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  We are not electing a pastor for our church. Trump has lots of personal personality issues that some cite as the reason they won't vote for him. I simply ask these people, "do you want change?" If yes, none of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of DeSantis, will bring change. The others will bring more of the same that we've seen. RESULTS matter and Trump does have a track record, all in the face of relentless attacks by the left and the establishment right.

(06-16-2023 01:22 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 12:53 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Bolded statement #2: I 100% agree. Our nation is badly in need of an awakening. Is Donald Trump the vehicle to make that happen? His supporters clearly think so. I don't. I think he is nothing but a one-way ticket to more needless anguish for our country. We do not deserve any more of his brand of "winning".

So, let's go back to the standard issue, milquetoast Republican that talks a great game but then doesn't do sh!t?

Look at the list of GOP candidates who are 'running' to be President.

DeSantis - no charisma, poor speaker. Of all the 'others' he is the only one who might actually DO something.

Mike Pence - establishment all the way. No charisma. Same old, same old. Hell no.

Tim Scott - don't have much negative to say, but for me, he doesn't move the needle much. Says a lot that sounds good but......no track record.

Nikki Haley - another establishment hack. Hell no.

Vivek Ramaswamy - outsider, says a lot that sounds good. No political experience.

Chris Christie - Another establishment hack who just wants more power. Hell no.

Asa Hutchinson - Yet another establishment hack. Hard pass.

Doug Burgum - a mostly unknown former software entrepreneur, 2 time North Dakota Governor. Doesn't move the needle a mm

Larry Elder - while I like him as a commentator, he has no political experience

Francis Suarez - Announced a run on June 15, 2 term Miami Mayor and President of the U.S. Conference of Mayors. Not enough info on him.



The GOP is trying their hardest to ignore the will of a large segment of their base and push anybody but Trump. They want establishment candidates which will insure that their status as "surrender monkeys" will not change and of course, nothing will change in D.C.

The reason many support Trump is that he is beholden to nobody - doesn't need their $$, and supporters feel that he is fighting for them, to stop the onslaught of the government against the people.

We are not electing a pastor for our church. Trump has lots of personal personality issues that some cite as the reason they won't vote for him. I simply ask these people, "do you want change?" If yes, none of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of DeSantis, will bring change. The others will bring more of the same that we've seen. RESULTS matter and Trump does have a track record, all in the face of relentless attacks by the left and the establishment right.

unfortunately, #groverII is dead...

however, great post MHB ... that pretty much sums 'er up from the 'wannabe' side of the equation...

(06-16-2023 09:56 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:53 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Again, Presidents have ALWAYS been above normal security concerns. Like shere just said, you are not the President.

True. But as an American citizen I do get to voice an opinion regarding who should be president.

So I will rephrase my question: does it not bother you that Donald Trump appears to hold classification requirements in such low regard - - at least when it comes to himself and those he wants to impress?

You mean...like in a garage, at a university or Chinatown type of low regard? Yes, it does bother me.

Apparently, that part doesn't bother you.

Well, a whole 'nother discussion needs to be had about the tendency of our government OVER CLASSIFYING damn near everything. Not because of National Security concerns, but of keeping info away from those they are supposed to be serving - the people.

But that is a topic for another day, another thread.

(06-16-2023 01:24 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 01:22 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  We are not electing a pastor for our church. Trump has lots of personal personality issues that some cite as the reason they won't vote for him. I simply ask these people, "do you want change?" If yes, none of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of DeSantis, will bring change. The others will bring more of the same that we've seen. RESULTS matter and Trump does have a track record, all in the face of relentless attacks by the left and the establishment right.

his one saving grace would be following through on torching the swamp in the term of 2nd endearments...

however, I'm in the camp of ... yeah just for , AM .....

@>270EVsBlueBakedInn(125) ... (AM)

(06-16-2023 02:26 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 01:24 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 01:22 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  We are not electing a pastor for our church. Trump has lots of personal personality issues that some cite as the reason they won't vote for him. I simply ask these people, "do you want change?" If yes, none of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of DeSantis, will bring change. The others will bring more of the same that we've seen. RESULTS matter and Trump does have a track record, all in the face of relentless attacks by the left and the establishment right.

his one saving grace would be following through on torching the swamp in the term of 2nd endearments...

however, I'm in the camp of ... yeah just for , AM .....

@>270EVsBlueBakedInn(125) ... (AM)

While I agree.. We're seeing what they're doing to him now because they all know what will come if he pulls off a re-election and the critters are nervous. Because in a 2nd term, he won't seek re-election..

They also want to make an example out of him so no more outsiders try to run especially if they can't be bought... That's one reason why Viveck interests me, cause he doesn't need DC to be wealthy, he's a self made millionaire.

(06-16-2023 02:18 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:56 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:53 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Again, Presidents have ALWAYS been above normal security concerns. Like shere just said, you are not the President.

True. But as an American citizen I do get to voice an opinion regarding who should be president.

So I will rephrase my question: does it not bother you that Donald Trump appears to hold classification requirements in such low regard - - at least when it comes to himself and those he wants to impress?

You mean...like in a garage, at a university or Chinatown type of low regard? Yes, it does bother me.

Apparently, that part doesn't bother you.

Lots of disjointed and illogical things are seemingly apparent to those who have put their complete faith in the sacred canons of the Trumplet Church.

Commandment No. 1: Whosoever questions the infallible word of our Orange Savior on any subject shall castigated with whatever asinine accusation first comes to mind.

The Donald approves, ollie. Well done, good and faithful servant.

(06-16-2023 06:32 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  All the debauchery going on in our country, all the festering evil, much of it aimed at children, all the misery and suffering and mental illness, and yet most of what you see on TV or online is Trump Trump Trump. He’s like some dime store Jesus that a huge part of the population has given their soul to. Or a dime store Satan for many, like you.

So many people spending huge chunks of their lives thinking about and debating about and arguing about and obsessing about Donald J Trump, while I frankly don’t think he makes a difference either way at this point. The evil that pervades this country, hell the entire world it seems, that appears to hold all of us in its grasp, is far greater than him. He’s just another distraction for all us little people.

It’s basically how magic tricks work. “Hey look over there”.

Outstanding, seriously.

(06-16-2023 09:08 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:42 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 08:10 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  The real question is why are you using a Peter Strzok tweet to make a political point?

Peter Strzok courtesy of the NYT


Doesn’t get any less credible than that!!!

Im convinced its deep seated mental illness with the hate trump crowd. I mean, someone like him beat thrm up in school, banged their girlfriend, ran off their mom. They are always the same type...beta cucks or fat white women

(06-16-2023 09:22 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:08 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 09:01 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 07:49 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 07:37 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  I viewed Trump with hesitant optimism the first go round. I wanted to see how a 'businessman' would run the country as it was obvious that career politicians were terrible at the job. Overall I was pleased. The work that Trump did getting conservative and constitutionally minded judges on various courts around the country has at least slowed the progressive rot for the next 25-40 years. The US didn't get involved in any new conflicts, adversaries remained in line, and big-govt seemed to be put on a diet. I think Trump was naïve about just how big of a deal the deep state was and to what extent it held the real power in the US.

This go round I want him to go full scorched earth. Anybody he has the ability to fire should be fired on day one. Declassify everything that doesn't severely damage national security. Drop all the dirty secrets, our own included, and let the world burn. It's time for a reset and I would rather it be done with the best interest of the US in mind and not those of China, the ME, or the democratic socialists in Europe. The US is in a serious state of decay, poisoned by career politicians who have long ago forgotten the reason they were in DC. Their interests aren't our own interests. I'm not necessarily saying Trump's interests are our own as well, but what he said and did publicly his first go round was far better than what any president since Reagan has said and done.

I'll take his mean tweets, narcissistic personality, proclivity for exaggerating, little white lies, etc. for four more years. Maybe it's because I'm getting older and more cynical, but I just wanna watch the liberals cry and the world burn.

Interesting...sorta sounds like the stuff of dictators. Which is exactly why I say trump is a threat to our democracy.

But as you hint at...there's zero guarantee this would be done solely for our country and NOT for him personally.

Trump is far from anything resembling a dictator. His actions were likewise far from any that a dictator would have taken.

Mostly because he's not currently in the WH. God help us if he's elected again.

Yeah, God help us. We certainly don’t need a person who has demonstrated he’ll put America first and build a booming economy. We need a senile pedo beholden to the Chinks and driving inflation thru the roof instead. Good times!

Tom thinks that's perfectly fine.

(06-16-2023 09:49 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I mean, when someone seriously says "Trump caused the global pandemic", you cannot take them seriously ever again.

Well, I never took him seriously before he said that anyway so...