If the democrats want to dump Biden, how late do you think they can wait to convince him? New Year's?

(06-14-2023 03:32 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Watching that video sent me back in time and reminded me of all the reasons I'll never be a part of the Dem party again. Brought back a lot of anger I've repressed over the last 3+ years. Also reminded me of my anger towards Bernie for accepting that treatment and then being a sheepdog for them afterwards. Really wish I had let those feelings stay repressed.

Yeah. Not that I was ever a fan of his, but at one point I thought he was genuine, stupid, but genuine. Till he let them pee all over him (and all his loyal followers) twice even. Got no use for sell outs and turn coats.

Sold you guys out for a little bit of power (and probably some cash).

(06-14-2023 03:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 03:32 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Watching that video sent me back in time and reminded me of all the reasons I'll never be a part of the Dem party again. Brought back a lot of anger I've repressed over the last 3+ years. Also reminded me of my anger towards Bernie for accepting that treatment and then being a sheepdog for them afterwards. Really wish I had let those feelings stay repressed.

Yeah. Not that I was ever a fan of his, but at one point I thought he was genuine, stupid, but genuine. Till he let them pee all over him (and all his loyal followers) twice even. Got no use for sell outs and turn coats.

Sold you guys out for a little bit of power (and probably some cash).

Doesn't make me less angry at him, but I believe something slightly different as to the reasons for his sell out. I think he really and truly believes (wrongly IMO) that Trump is some awful threat far worse than any other generic republican. I think he also very wrongly internalized and believed in some way the absolute nonsense spin from the Clinton camp that he was partially responsible for her loss. Him selling out his support for power is what he absolutely should have done. His endorsement and campaigning for both Clinton and Biden should have been made contingent on him getting some actual concessions from them on literally anything. Sure he lost both times but he absolutely had the power to say I want these things for my endorsement or I'll just sit this one out. That would have been the proper way to use the obvious leverage he had to get some actual power. He did none of that.

I think they said "shut up and sit down" and he said "yessir massah".

I don’t think Bernie ever actually wanted to be president. The pluses for running were just too great to pass up. A new lake ‘cabin’ is nice.

Vivek was good and on point with Laura. She brushed him off like a piece of lint. Si disappointinrng for a guy with great ideas.

(06-14-2023 03:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Yeah. Not that I was ever a fan of his, but at one point I thought he was genuine, stupid, but genuine. Till he let them pee all over him (and all his loyal followers) twice even. Got no use for sell outs and turn coats.
Sold you guys out for a little bit of power (and probably some cash).

And a nice lake house.

I think we'll see Newsome jump in...

(06-15-2023 02:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 03:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Yeah. Not that I was ever a fan of his, but at one point I thought he was genuine, stupid, but genuine. Till he let them pee all over him (and all his loyal followers) twice even. Got no use for sell outs and turn coats.
Sold you guys out for a little bit of power (and probably some cash).

And a nice lake house.

With the power he had at the end of both primaries to essentially destroy the Dem party if he were just purely selling out for goodies you'd sell out for a lot more than a lake house. That's my problem with the "selling out for power and personal gain" theory, not that I believe he or anyone is above doing it, just that you'd have to be a moron to sell out that much power and influence for as little as he appears to have gotten out of his capitulation.

I did use the word "stupid" in reference to him.

(06-15-2023 08:02 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I did use the word "stupid" in reference to him.

You can certainly disagree with his policy beliefs, but to think a person could have gotten as far as he has in politics as not only a political independent but a self described socialist in a country that has villainized that term for decades is stupid I'm just going to disagree with. It takes at the very least a level of cunning and political skill at a very high level because all the institutional power and forces of the system work against someone taking his path to get to where he got. He's had countless opportunities just just sell out and take the easy coasting route that people like AOC have already done.

(06-15-2023 08:17 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-15-2023 08:02 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I did use the word "stupid" in reference to him.

You can certainly disagree with his policy beliefs, but to think a person could have gotten as far as he has in politics as not only a political independent but a self described socialist in a country that has villainized that term for decades is stupid I'm just going to disagree with. It takes at the very least a level of cunning and political skill at a very high level because all the institutional power and forces of the system work against someone taking his path to get to where he got. He's had countless opportunities just just sell out and take the easy coasting route that people like AOC have already done.

(06-15-2023 07:31 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-15-2023 02:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-14-2023 03:46 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Yeah. Not that I was ever a fan of his, but at one point I thought he was genuine, stupid, but genuine. Till he let them pee all over him (and all his loyal followers) twice even. Got no use for sell outs and turn coats.
Sold you guys out for a little bit of power (and probably some cash).

And a nice lake house.

With the power he had at the end of both primaries to essentially destroy the Dem party if he were just purely selling out for goodies you'd sell out for a lot more than a lake house. That's my problem with the "selling out for power and personal gain" theory, not that I believe he or anyone is above doing it, just that you'd have to be a moron to sell out that much power and influence for as little as he appears to have gotten out of his capitulation.

Given that doing so in either 2016 or 2020 would have guaranteed victories for Donald Trump, that would almost certainly destroyed any credibility that he had with his base. Yes he had a lot of power, but using it would very likely have destroyed the basis for that power.

I don't think Bernie is stupid, but I do think he is extremely dishonest.

Man he owned her. Listen to her stutter.

Wow. Strong clip.

It is a shame that it was seem by only 4,236 total people, having aired on CNN.

(06-15-2023 07:40 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  Wow. Strong clip.

It is a shame that it was seem by only 4,236 total people, having aired on CNN.

LOL

Wait, you probably aren't exaggerating.

Don Lemon got fired fairly soon after the Vivek Ramaswamy interview. Since it's the only time I've heard of him talking back to his producers over his earpiece I agree with those who think it at least had something to do with his firing and even may be the cause of it.

I'm going to listen to Vivek a little more. I know there are going to be a whole lot of areas we will never agree, but he's the only of the GOP candidates who seems to have any interesting thoughts and ideas outside of the standard GOP talking points that I'd never vote for. He's the only GOP candidate that I think has any understanding and concrete thoughts on AI, I'm interested to hear more about what he thinks about AI's impact on jobs and if he thinks there's a way to ensure AI doesn't eliminate millions of workers without causing us to fall behind to the point that China and others can lap us in this area. I would probably be willing to vote for someone I disagree with on pretty much everything else if I believe they are equipped to handle what's coming rapidly with AI.

(06-16-2023 07:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'm going to listen to Vivek a little more. I know there are going to be a whole lot of areas we will never agree, but he's the only of the GOP candidates who seems to have any interesting thoughts and ideas outside of the standard GOP talking points that I'd never vote for. He's the only GOP candidate that I think has any understanding and concrete thoughts on AI, I'm interested to hear more about what he thinks about AI's impact on jobs and if he thinks there's a way to ensure AI doesn't eliminate millions of workers without causing us to fall behind to the point that China and others can lap us in this area. I would probably be willing to vote for someone I disagree with on pretty much everything else if I believe they are equipped to handle what's coming rapidly with AI.

You don't think President Daisy, who can't seem to walk 20 feet without stumbling or speak 20 words without losing his train of thought.. at the.. ya know the thing.. come on man.. I'm serious...

Or his VP are equipped to handle AI, I mean look at the bang up job they've done in every aspect of this administration.