(06-13-2023 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Maximus is right. The two best campaigning I’ve seen so far is Vivek and RFK Jr. because they are very thought provoking campaigns that makes the listener think. Whoever is advising DeSantis is doing it all wrong as he’s trying to hard to be the ‘typical Republican’ but with just enough twist to make him not
So, are you planning to vote for him in the primary?
I might...if he's polling the highest against trump.
(06-13-2023 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Maximus is right. The two best campaigning I’ve seen so far is Vivek and RFK Jr. because they are very thought provoking campaigns that makes the listener think. Whoever is advising DeSantis is doing it all wrong as he’s trying to hard to be the ‘typical Republican’ but with just enough twist to make him not
So, are you planning to vote for him in the primary?
I might...if he's polling the highest against trump.
For me in the primary in NC since I'm unaffiliated I can pick which primary I want to vote in, GOP/Dem/Libertarian (can't vote in the Green Party Primary though unfortunately). If there is a GOP candidate I think is interesting on at least a few issues I find important and is semi viable to take down Trump/DeSantis I'd probably vote in that primary. So far of the candidates out there only Vivek I think would possibly govern any differently than a standard issue Republican, and if he somehow gets enough momentum and looks viable as the NC primary approaches I'll have an interesting decision to make. I don't think that's going to happen though. On the Dem side hell freezes over before I vote for Biden in a primary, I'd rather cut my pinky off. In terms of the other 2 current candidates RFK and Marianne what's most likely to happen is I'm going to vote for the one who I view has the best chance to beat Biden. I've listened to both Marianne and RFK a good amount, have disagreements with both, but I'd take either over Biden in a heartbeat. I probably align on policy more with Marianne, but she's never going to be taken even remotely seriously. So most likely I'm going to end up voting for RFK in the hopes of getting rid of Biden.
(06-13-2023 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Maximus is right. The two best campaigning I’ve seen so far is Vivek and RFK Jr. because they are very thought provoking campaigns that makes the listener think. Whoever is advising DeSantis is doing it all wrong as he’s trying to hard to be the ‘typical Republican’ but with just enough twist to make him not
So, are you planning to vote for him in the primary?
I might...if he's polling the highest against trump.
For me in the primary in NC since I'm unaffiliated I can pick which primary I want to vote in, GOP/Dem/Libertarian (can't vote in the Green Party Primary though unfortunately). If there is a GOP candidate I think is interesting on at least a few issues I find important and is semi viable to take down Trump/DeSantis I'd probably vote in that primary. So far of the candidates out there only Vivek I think would possibly govern any differently than a standard issue Republican, and if he somehow gets enough momentum and looks viable as the NC primary approaches I'll have an interesting decision to make. I don't think that's going to happen though. On the Dem side hell freezes over before I vote for Biden in a primary, I'd rather cut my pinky off. In terms of the other 2 current candidates RFK and Marianne what's most likely to happen is I'm going to vote for the one who I view has the best chance to beat Biden. I've listened to both Marianne and RFK a good amount, have disagreements with both, but I'd take either over Biden in a heartbeat. I probably align on policy more with Marianne, but she's never going to be taken even remotely seriously. So most likely I'm going to end up voting for RFK in the hopes of getting rid of Biden.
All depends on who the Super Delegates want in the end...
(06-13-2023 04:58 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote: Maximus is right. The two best campaigning I’ve seen so far is Vivek and RFK Jr. because they are very thought provoking campaigns that makes the listener think. Whoever is advising DeSantis is doing it all wrong as he’s trying to hard to be the ‘typical Republican’ but with just enough twist to make him not
So, are you planning to vote for him in the primary?
I might...if he's polling the highest against trump.
For me in the primary in NC since I'm unaffiliated I can pick which primary I want to vote in, GOP/Dem/Libertarian (can't vote in the Green Party Primary though unfortunately). If there is a GOP candidate I think is interesting on at least a few issues I find important and is semi viable to take down Trump/DeSantis I'd probably vote in that primary. So far of the candidates out there only Vivek I think would possibly govern any differently than a standard issue Republican, and if he somehow gets enough momentum and looks viable as the NC primary approaches I'll have an interesting decision to make. I don't think that's going to happen though. On the Dem side hell freezes over before I vote for Biden in a primary, I'd rather cut my pinky off. In terms of the other 2 current candidates RFK and Marianne what's most likely to happen is I'm going to vote for the one who I view has the best chance to beat Biden. I've listened to both Marianne and RFK a good amount, have disagreements with both, but I'd take either over Biden in a heartbeat. I probably align on policy more with Marianne, but she's never going to be taken even remotely seriously. So most likely I'm going to end up voting for RFK in the hopes of getting rid of Biden.
We don't have to do anything special in Michigan. The ballot has both parties on it...you just can only vote for all one party. If you vote for both, nothing counts.
(06-14-2023 01:36 PM)gdunn Wrote: All depends on who the Super Delegates want in the end...
Yep. He's most likely dreaming that voting for RFK in a primary will mean anything.
It most likely won't matter. I'm a 2 time Bernie supporter, do you actually think I don't understand the rank corruption of the DNC? My primary voting thought process this time will essentially be about hoping to eliminate something I don't want (while knowing it's probably hopeless). I absolutely do not want Biden to be the Dem nominee. I do not want Trump to be the nominee, but if I'm being honest from my personal political point of view I find Trump far preferable to all the other GOP candidates except maybe Vivek who I need to honestly research more. Trump at least in rhetoric breaks from the standard issue GOP policy positions on war, on trade deals, on SS and Medicare, and in the 2016 campaign on health care in ways I find interesting. In practice whether just because he wasn't actually that ideologically committed to his breaks from the GOP or that the swamp creatures ensured he couldn't the Trump term was almost all standard issue GOP tax cuts and deregulation with more mean tweets and "owning the libs." Either way Trump winning the GOP primary scares me far less than DeSantis or in my worst nightmares in terms of who I think is the most "evil" Mike Pence. So I'm probably not going to wade into the GOP primary unless Vivek somehow in some fantasy world were a serious challenger by the time the NC primary gets here. So I'm going to go vote for something, even though I know my primary vote likely and sadly doesn't matter, and most likely RFK is going to have the highest of the crazy slim chances of victory of the people I'd ever tolerate voting for in a primary, so I expect I end up voting in the Dem primary. I will peak at the Libertarian primary just in case it becomes so obvious I'm getting Biden Trump it's not worth wasting my time and see if any of their candidates can avoid getting bogged down into should seatbelt laws exist long enough for me to vote for one of them. I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, because you couldn't pay me to have voted for Killary, and I was hoping Johnson could get to 5% and the Lib party could get matched federal funding and it would advance the goal of breaking the 2 party system. Just being anti war and pro weed legalization was enough for me to ignore essentially everything else I know we disagree on policy wise.
I like the guy very much. The only problem is he is a complete outsider like Trump was the first time around. They will eat him alive in the deep swamp with the same crap they played on Trump. He will not know who to go to for appointments and advice. It’ll be four years wasted although, not four years under more democrat rule. He needs supervised experienced of the deep swamp state before I’d be all in.
(06-14-2023 01:36 PM)gdunn Wrote: All depends on who the Super Delegates want in the end...
Yep. He's most likely dreaming that voting for RFK in a primary will mean anything.
It most likely won't matter. I'm a 2 time Bernie supporter, do you actually think I don't understand the rank corruption of the DNC? My primary voting thought process this time will essentially be about hoping to eliminate something I don't want (while knowing it's probably hopeless). I absolutely do not want Biden to be the Dem nominee. I do not want Trump to be the nominee, but if I'm being honest from my personal political point of view I find Trump far preferable to all the other GOP candidates except maybe Vivek who I need to honestly research more. Trump at least in rhetoric breaks from the standard issue GOP policy positions on war, on trade deals, on SS and Medicare, and in the 2016 campaign on health care in ways I find interesting. In practice whether just because he wasn't actually that ideologically committed to his breaks from the GOP or that the swamp creatures ensured he couldn't the Trump term was almost all standard issue GOP tax cuts and deregulation with more mean tweets and "owning the libs." Either way Trump winning the GOP primary scares me far less than DeSantis or in my worst nightmares in terms of who I think is the most "evil" Mike Pence. So I'm probably not going to wade into the GOP primary unless Vivek somehow in some fantasy world were a serious challenger by the time the NC primary gets here. So I'm going to go vote for something, even though I know my primary vote likely and sadly doesn't matter, and most likely RFK is going to have the highest of the crazy slim chances of victory of the people I'd ever tolerate voting for in a primary, so I expect I end up voting in the Dem primary. I will peak at the Libertarian primary just in case it becomes so obvious I'm getting Biden Trump it's not worth wasting my time and see if any of their candidates can avoid getting bogged down into should seatbelt laws exist long enough for me to vote for one of them. I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, because you couldn't pay me to have voted for Killary, and I was hoping Johnson could get to 5% and the Lib party could get matched federal funding and it would advance the goal of breaking the 2 party system. Just being anti war and pro weed legalization was enough for me to ignore essentially everything else I know we disagree on policy wise.
I am totally amazed that someone admits being a Bernie supporter.
(06-14-2023 02:05 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote: Once Newsome enters the race, you'll see some consolidation among the non Biden voters in the primary.
Newsome is not entering the race. There's a reason despite Biden's insanely obvious weakness and beatability no mainstream figure has declared. Unless this gets to the point where the Dems decide they have to dump Biden you are not going to see a single establishment candidate enter this race. In a sane world you'd see every single one of these candidates in this race with Biden being insanely unpopular, mentally incapable of holding the office, and pretty obviously corrupt. However, the Dems despite all their talks about "protecting democracy" do not care about it at all in their primaries. Never forget the DNC's lawyers argued in court that they do not have any obligation to run a fair primary. The stuff they pulled at the 2016 convention was a mockery of "democracy."
(06-14-2023 01:36 PM)gdunn Wrote: All depends on who the Super Delegates want in the end...
Yep. He's most likely dreaming that voting for RFK in a primary will mean anything.
It most likely won't matter. I'm a 2 time Bernie supporter, do you actually think I don't understand the rank corruption of the DNC? My primary voting thought process this time will essentially be about hoping to eliminate something I don't want (while knowing it's probably hopeless). I absolutely do not want Biden to be the Dem nominee. I do not want Trump to be the nominee, but if I'm being honest from my personal political point of view I find Trump far preferable to all the other GOP candidates except maybe Vivek who I need to honestly research more. Trump at least in rhetoric breaks from the standard issue GOP policy positions on war, on trade deals, on SS and Medicare, and in the 2016 campaign on health care in ways I find interesting. In practice whether just because he wasn't actually that ideologically committed to his breaks from the GOP or that the swamp creatures ensured he couldn't the Trump term was almost all standard issue GOP tax cuts and deregulation with more mean tweets and "owning the libs." Either way Trump winning the GOP primary scares me far less than DeSantis or in my worst nightmares in terms of who I think is the most "evil" Mike Pence. So I'm probably not going to wade into the GOP primary unless Vivek somehow in some fantasy world were a serious challenger by the time the NC primary gets here. So I'm going to go vote for something, even though I know my primary vote likely and sadly doesn't matter, and most likely RFK is going to have the highest of the crazy slim chances of victory of the people I'd ever tolerate voting for in a primary, so I expect I end up voting in the Dem primary. I will peak at the Libertarian primary just in case it becomes so obvious I'm getting Biden Trump it's not worth wasting my time and see if any of their candidates can avoid getting bogged down into should seatbelt laws exist long enough for me to vote for one of them. I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, because you couldn't pay me to have voted for Killary, and I was hoping Johnson could get to 5% and the Lib party could get matched federal funding and it would advance the goal of breaking the 2 party system. Just being anti war and pro weed legalization was enough for me to ignore essentially everything else I know we disagree on policy wise.
I am totally amazed that someone admits being a Bernie supporter.
I'm totally amazed you find that amazing. Despite my utter disgust for how he's rolled over and been a sheepdog for the Dem party I don't see how you could find it hard for someone to like the appeals of Dem party establishment bad, money in politics bad, corporations exploiting workers bad, universal healthcare good. Maybe you don't agree with those things, but someone supporting that platform makes way more sense than anyone openly admitting they were a vocal supporter of whatever the hell the Biden and Hillary platforms were. Anyone being excited about those 2 other than the idea of Hillary being the first female president amazes the hell out of me.
(06-14-2023 01:36 PM)gdunn Wrote: All depends on who the Super Delegates want in the end...
Yep. He's most likely dreaming that voting for RFK in a primary will mean anything.
It most likely won't matter. I'm a 2 time Bernie supporter, do you actually think I don't understand the rank corruption of the DNC? My primary voting thought process this time will essentially be about hoping to eliminate something I don't want (while knowing it's probably hopeless). I absolutely do not want Biden to be the Dem nominee. I do not want Trump to be the nominee, but if I'm being honest from my personal political point of view I find Trump far preferable to all the other GOP candidates except maybe Vivek who I need to honestly research more. Trump at least in rhetoric breaks from the standard issue GOP policy positions on war, on trade deals, on SS and Medicare, and in the 2016 campaign on health care in ways I find interesting. In practice whether just because he wasn't actually that ideologically committed to his breaks from the GOP or that the swamp creatures ensured he couldn't the Trump term was almost all standard issue GOP tax cuts and deregulation with more mean tweets and "owning the libs." Either way Trump winning the GOP primary scares me far less than DeSantis or in my worst nightmares in terms of who I think is the most "evil" Mike Pence. So I'm probably not going to wade into the GOP primary unless Vivek somehow in some fantasy world were a serious challenger by the time the NC primary gets here. So I'm going to go vote for something, even though I know my primary vote likely and sadly doesn't matter, and most likely RFK is going to have the highest of the crazy slim chances of victory of the people I'd ever tolerate voting for in a primary, so I expect I end up voting in the Dem primary. I will peak at the Libertarian primary just in case it becomes so obvious I'm getting Biden Trump it's not worth wasting my time and see if any of their candidates can avoid getting bogged down into should seatbelt laws exist long enough for me to vote for one of them. I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, because you couldn't pay me to have voted for Killary, and I was hoping Johnson could get to 5% and the Lib party could get matched federal funding and it would advance the goal of breaking the 2 party system. Just being anti war and pro weed legalization was enough for me to ignore essentially everything else I know we disagree on policy wise.
I am totally amazed that someone admits being a Bernie supporter.
I'm totally amazed you find that amazing. Despite my utter disgust for how he's rolled over and been a sheepdog for the Dem party I don't see how you could find it hard for someone to like the appeals of Dem party establishment bad, money in politics bad, corporations exploiting workers bad, universal healthcare good. Maybe you don't agree with those things, but someone supporting that platform makes way more sense than anyone openly admitting they were a vocal supporter of whatever the hell the Biden and Hillary platforms were. Anyone being excited about those 2 other than the idea of Hillary being the first female president amazes the hell out of me.
Many of the moronotrons here are happy to call Trump a grifter. A claim that is in itself ridiculously moronic. However there is tons of evidence of the great socialist grifting millions off of government. Especially considering he has never held a public sector job and has amassed his considerable wealth through government “service”. The great socialist made his wife his campaign’s manager. Do you know how much they can be legally paid? Well I don’t remember exactly but it is a lot of money. Strange for a guy supposedly for the little guy. He’s not serious. He may have been when he honeymooned in the old USSR but he has decided money for himself is more important. He’s is the con man and grifter.
In his defense, the socialist-communist ALWAYS do the same. Latest greatest examples being Putin and Xi.
(06-14-2023 01:40 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote: Yep. He's most likely dreaming that voting for RFK in a primary will mean anything.
It most likely won't matter. I'm a 2 time Bernie supporter, do you actually think I don't understand the rank corruption of the DNC? My primary voting thought process this time will essentially be about hoping to eliminate something I don't want (while knowing it's probably hopeless). I absolutely do not want Biden to be the Dem nominee. I do not want Trump to be the nominee, but if I'm being honest from my personal political point of view I find Trump far preferable to all the other GOP candidates except maybe Vivek who I need to honestly research more. Trump at least in rhetoric breaks from the standard issue GOP policy positions on war, on trade deals, on SS and Medicare, and in the 2016 campaign on health care in ways I find interesting. In practice whether just because he wasn't actually that ideologically committed to his breaks from the GOP or that the swamp creatures ensured he couldn't the Trump term was almost all standard issue GOP tax cuts and deregulation with more mean tweets and "owning the libs." Either way Trump winning the GOP primary scares me far less than DeSantis or in my worst nightmares in terms of who I think is the most "evil" Mike Pence. So I'm probably not going to wade into the GOP primary unless Vivek somehow in some fantasy world were a serious challenger by the time the NC primary gets here. So I'm going to go vote for something, even though I know my primary vote likely and sadly doesn't matter, and most likely RFK is going to have the highest of the crazy slim chances of victory of the people I'd ever tolerate voting for in a primary, so I expect I end up voting in the Dem primary. I will peak at the Libertarian primary just in case it becomes so obvious I'm getting Biden Trump it's not worth wasting my time and see if any of their candidates can avoid getting bogged down into should seatbelt laws exist long enough for me to vote for one of them. I did vote for Gary Johnson in 2016, because you couldn't pay me to have voted for Killary, and I was hoping Johnson could get to 5% and the Lib party could get matched federal funding and it would advance the goal of breaking the 2 party system. Just being anti war and pro weed legalization was enough for me to ignore essentially everything else I know we disagree on policy wise.
I am totally amazed that someone admits being a Bernie supporter.
I'm totally amazed you find that amazing. Despite my utter disgust for how he's rolled over and been a sheepdog for the Dem party I don't see how you could find it hard for someone to like the appeals of Dem party establishment bad, money in politics bad, corporations exploiting workers bad, universal healthcare good. Maybe you don't agree with those things, but someone supporting that platform makes way more sense than anyone openly admitting they were a vocal supporter of whatever the hell the Biden and Hillary platforms were. Anyone being excited about those 2 other than the idea of Hillary being the first female president amazes the hell out of me.
Many of the moronotrons here are happy to call Trump a grifter. A claim that is in itself ridiculously moronic. However there is tons of evidence of the great socialist grifting millions off of government. Especially considering he has never held a public sector job and has amassed his considerable wealth through government “service”. The great socialist made his wife his campaign’s manager. Do you know how much they can be legally paid? Well I don’t remember exactly but it is a lot of money. Strange for a guy supposedly for the little guy. He’s not serious. He may have been when he honeymooned in the old USSR but he has decided money for himself is more important. He’s is the con man and grifter.
In his defense, the socialist-communist ALWAYS do the same. Latest greatest examples being Putin and Xi.
Okay, lets just say I concede everything you just said is true. Not going to have a single debate about it. With everything you just wrote being 100% truth who's more corrupt Bernie or Biden? Bernie or Hillary? The level of grift and corruption of the Clinton and Biden families makes the Bernie grift if I grant every single bit of what you typed as true look like less than a drop in the bucket. I know this is going to be hard for you but imagine yourself as a left of center person, who are you going to find more trustworthy Bernie, Hillary, or Biden? If you answer honestly you know it's Bernie by a gap the size of the grand canyon.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2023 03:03 PM by b0ndsj0ns.)
(06-14-2023 02:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote: Okay, lets just say I concede everything you just said is true. Not going to have a single debate about it. With everything you just wrote being 100% truth who's more corrupt Bernie or Biden? Bernie or Hillary? The level of grift and corruption of the Clinton and Biden families makes the Bernie grift if I grant every single bit of what you typed as true look like less than a drop in the bucket.
Shades of gray.
Keeping in mind I think EVERYBODY in Washington is a corrupt pos.
(06-14-2023 02:59 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote: Okay, lets just say I concede everything you just said is true. Not going to have a single debate about it. With everything you just wrote being 100% truth who's more corrupt Bernie or Biden? Bernie or Hillary? The level of grift and corruption of the Clinton and Biden families makes the Bernie grift if I grant every single bit of what you typed as true look like less than a drop in the bucket.
Shades of gray.
Keeping in mind I think EVERYBODY in Washington is a corrupt pos.
I pretty much agree. I certainly don't think Bernie is a saint. However, you can watch a speech Bernie gave 30 years ago and one today and it's going to sound consistent to the point of being annoying. You look at the way his 2 campaigns were funded in comparison to the Biden and Clinton campaigns and they couldn't look more different. Most importantly, if you had followed the way MSNBC and the other MSM "covered" his campaigns you would know how much of a threat they viewed him. I can remember everyone gleefully posting the reactions of the MSNBC types when it became obvious Trump won in 2016, go look at some of those same peoples reactions when Bernie destroyed the field in Nevada. The level of depression, denial, anger, was insane to watch for the supposedly "left leaning" networks. They were losing it over the idea of Bernie winning. Everyone here completely understands how biased and corrupt those media organizations are, so the fact that they were melting down over the moment where Bernie's victory looked in hand should tell you something. I'm not saying it tells you Bernie is perfect, what I'm saying it tells you is they viewed Bernie and his message as a threat to their power.
Watching that video sent me back in time and reminded me of all the reasons I'll never be a part of the Dem party again. Brought back a lot of anger I've repressed over the last 3+ years. Also reminded me of my anger towards Bernie for accepting that treatment and then being a sheepdog for them afterwards. Really wish I had let those feelings stay repressed.
