(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

No. UConn won in 2014 as a member of the AAC.

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

One came when they were in the AAC. Still the AAC's greatest sport accomplishment unless you put getting wrecked in the football semi's as something higher.

(06-06-2023 03:30 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Who’d be the 14th member of CU doesn’t come? I think they do though… this is a reach from BY though. Wonder if Zaga would still be in play.

Commissioners dont make expansion decisions.

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

All of most school's championships came as a member of one conference-I'm not really sure what your point is. And UConn's fourth championship actually came in the first year of the AAC. (Granted mostly with recruits who were expecting to play in the Big East.)

My point is that since UConn has five championships, that greatly compensates for their lack of basketball success until relatively recently. But UConn is still problematic due to their football program. Gonzaga, on the other hand, still has zero championships, so they haven't compensated for their historic lack of basketball success like UConn has. (Even though Gonzaga doesn't have a bad football team to saddle the conference with.)

Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Money and more money.

(06-06-2023 03:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Money and more money.

I'm with Aztecgoler. I don't see risking the success of both men's and women's basketball to move to a mid-western conference. They are an East coast institution - and I don't mean university - I mean INSTITUTION. The whole idea seems silly to me.

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Playing football as an independent is not ideal. UConn is committed to FBS football so if a P5 opportunity presents itself, UConn will very likely accept.

(06-06-2023 03:50 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Playing football as an independent is not ideal. UConn is committed to FBS football so if a P5 opportunity present itself, UConn will very likely accept.

Does UConn have a clause in its game contracts that allows for termination if they join a P5 conference and with sufficient notice? If not, they would have a lot of game contracts to cancel and the buyouts would be steep.

(06-06-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Money and more money.

I'm with Aztecgoler. I don't see risking the success of both men's and women's basketball to move to a mid-western conference. They are an East coast institution - and I don't mean university - I mean INSTITUTION. The whole idea seems silly to me.

It wont happen. Im sure they dont have the votes from the decision makers at the Big XII schools. They arent getting an invite.

(06-06-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Money and more money.

I'm with Aztecgoler. I don't see risking the success of both men's and women's basketball to move to a mid-western conference. They are an East coast institution - and I don't mean university - I mean INSTITUTION. The whole idea seems silly to me.

It’s ignoring the risk of staying in the Big East. They cannot maintain their athletic budget at its current deficit: football could drop to FCS, and basketball could eventually suffer. There is a good chance that they will not be able to retain Hurley unless they find more money somewhere, and NIL is only going to get worse, not better.

That’s the issue UConn is faced with: There is not a risk-adverse option for them. Any move they can make is not ideal, and they have to pick one out of many bad options.

(06-06-2023 12:38 PM)maybeimhere Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 12:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Oregon State 26,407


New Northwestern plan football stadium would be 35,000.

Oregon State is rebuilding an entire grandstand. They'll be around 35-39k when finished but there will be new suites, just like at Northwestern, for additional revenue.

Boise State's plans is for 45,000 soon. They expanded the stadium to 30,000 in 1999, and slowly in small amounts adding more seats three more times until 2012. It is due time for more expanding the seats. Boise State's record attendance was last year at 37,663 and that was against Fresno State at home.

2021 37,426 UNR
2019 36,902 Hawaii
2012 36,864 BYU
2015 36,836 Washington
2014 36,752 BYU
2021 36,702 Oklahoma State
2018 36,679 San Diego State
2016 36,602 Utah State
2019 36,498 Air Force
2022 36,396 Tenn.-Martin


Boise State at UCF drew over 45,000
At Florida State drew over 50,000
at BYU drew over 63,000
at BYU again drew 58,000
at Fresno State over 41,000
at Oklahoma State over 54,000
at BYU over 59,000
at San Diego State at 49,000
Vs Oregon in the Las Vegas Bowl 36,432 which Boise won.
at Oregon State over 42,000
at BYU over 63,000
at Virginia over 42,000
At the Fiesta Bowl vs Arizona over 66,000
at Washington over 71,000
at Michigan State over 78,000
at Georgia and won with over 73,000
at Virginia Tech over 86,000
Vs Utah in the Las Vegas Bowl over 41,000
VS TCU in The Fiesta Bowl over 73,000
at Oregon where Boise won over 58.000
at Washington over 70,000
at Utah over 43,000
Vs Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl over 73,000

I am showing why Boise State is more valuable to a P5 conference than people think. They could get butts in the seats.

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 02:59 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 11:56 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 11:50 AM)esayem Wrote:  Isn’t Boise State’s stadium smaller than Duke’s? What’s your take on that?

I know there is not truth to this, but if the B12 were interested I hope they force Boise to get rid of that ugly blue turf. I hate watching their home games because of it.

Yeah, I think that the blue turf (along with the various other problems that have already been discussed on this board ad nauseum) is a highly underrated part of why Boise State isn't high in realignment.

I believe there is literally some NCAA rule that bans anybody except for Boise State from having anything except for green turf. Well, technically speaking, the rule bans any new team from using non-green turf, but Boise State is the one and only team that's grandfathered in.

Edit: Coastal Carolina apparently now has real turf, but I could have sworn that there used to literally be an NCAA rule that every FBS football team except for Boise State was required to use green turf. I guess that rule must have been repealed.

UCF and Bowie State have different colors, and so does Eastern Washington's red turf.

UCF has green turf. I think the field turf color rule only applied to FBS.

I meant UCA with their purple and gray field.

(06-06-2023 03:37 PM)ccbfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

One came when they were in the AAC. Still the AAC's greatest sport accomplishment unless you put getting wrecked in the football semi's as something higher.

AAC's top sports accomplishments to date:

No. 1. UConn winning the national title in men's hoops

Others (in no particular order)

* UCF football's undefeated 2017 season

* UConn women's hoops winning multiple titles (I think six)

* Cincinnati's football run in 2021-22

* Tulane football in 2022-23

* Houston men's hoops in Final Four in 2022

(06-06-2023 04:04 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:37 PM)ccbfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

One came when they were in the AAC. Still the AAC's greatest sport accomplishment unless you put getting wrecked in the football semi's as something higher.

AAC's top sports accomplishments to date:

No. 1. UConn winning the national title in men's hoops

Others (in no particular order)

* UCF football's undefeated 2017 season

* UConn women's hoops winning multiple titles (I think six)

* Cincinnati's football run in 2021-22

* Tulane football in 2022-23

* Houston men's hoops in Final Four in 2022

I didn't think Cinci got wrecked by Bama. Cinci looked well coached and just massively out talented. Reminded me of the 2016 Bama vs Washington game. Washington clearly was well coached but ultimately just outmatched because the talent gap made 50/50 plays into 65/35 plays towards Bama. Bama vs Cinci was more like 75/25 towards Bama.

If I was UConn fan, I'd be opposed to joining the nB12.

You're not joining the conference of TX and OU, so that prestige is gone. And does anyone in Connecticut going to be excited about playing TCU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, UCF, BYU etc. in any sports? Kansas in hoops is the only attraction, and heck you can play them OOC in the Big East.

I know, you can say there are $31m reasons to do it, but this is IMO a rare case where the money isn't worth it.

(06-06-2023 11:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 07:06 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(06-05-2023 11:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-05-2023 10:30 PM)AztecNation Wrote:  The Gonzaga move never made sense to me. As for UConn, is there really a big difference between them and Arizona? Both suck at football and their brands are based off their basketball program. Difference is UConn has done really well recently in the tournament while Arizona has been more disappointing.

Yes - this is a point that I’ve made about UConn and Arizona, too.

If you take away the headline of being able to show peacock feathers by taking a Pac-12 school, Arizona and UConn are really comparable in the sense that their value is in basketball as opposed to football.

I’d disagree about Gonzaga, though. I have no idea why there’s so much pushback against the prospect of the Big 12 adding them. I think Gonzaga vs. Kansas/Baylor/Houston/etc. would be incredible. The fact that this isn’t as valuable as a top tier football expansion doesn’t mean that it can’t add value. As a sports fan, Gonzaga in a P5 basketball conference or Big East is honestly way more exciting than any G5 football addition to a P5 league at this point.

The logistics are a nightmare. It's tough even getting to the 4C schools left alone the midwest. They want to move baseball and other sports in there as well. Can they really afford to send players to Morgantown and Orlando every year? While the money is there, the hidden costs add up.

The PAC with SDSU is a much better fit, assuming everyone stays. Zags adds value. Now if the PAC doesn't deem them to fit the cultural mold, then their loss.

As far as UConn, if they are offered a partial Big 12 membership, I'd approach the ACC to up the offer, as the ACC has suffered in BBall at least perception wise (results have been good). Plus, they are moving to unequal revenue model, so UConn can get a ND type deal perhaps.

Gonzaga's academics are like below an R3. Boise State have better academics than them.

Why does the amount of research that a university does matter to anyone but the Big Ten?

(06-06-2023 04:15 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 04:04 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:37 PM)ccbfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  The problem is that Gonzaga basketball is new money and has zero championships. UConn basketball is also new money, but has five championships. But, of course, UConn is very problematic in football.

If there was a basketball program that had five national championships since 1999 and also didn't have a terrible football program to saddle the Big 12 with, there probably would be almost no resistance to adding them.

Would it be correct to say all of UConn's basketball championships came as members of the Big East?

One came when they were in the AAC. Still the AAC's greatest sport accomplishment unless you put getting wrecked in the football semi's as something higher.

AAC's top sports accomplishments to date:

No. 1. UConn winning the national title in men's hoops

Others (in no particular order)

* UCF football's undefeated 2017 season

* UConn women's hoops winning multiple titles (I think six)

* Cincinnati's football run in 2021-22

* Tulane football in 2022-23

* Houston men's hoops in Final Four in 2022

I didn't think Cinci got wrecked by Bama. Cinci looked well coached and just massively out talented. Reminded me of the 2016 Bama vs Washington game. Washington clearly was well coached but ultimately just outmatched because the talent gap made 50/50 plays into 65/35 plays towards Bama. Bama vs Cinci was more like 75/25 towards Bama.

I agree fully. As a casual Cincy fan, I might be a bit biased. But UC — despite generating half as many total yards and first downs as Bama — had no turnovers and only six penalties for 39 yards. The Bearcats played a clean, mentally-focused game overall but were simply outmanned. As you correctly note, UC was clearly beaten but not steamrolled (as some likely had predicted).

(06-06-2023 04:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  If I was UConn fan, I'd be opposed to joining the nB12.

You're not joining the conference of TX and OU, so that prestige is gone. And does anyone in Connecticut going to be excited about playing TCU, Texas Tech, Iowa State, UCF, BYU etc. in any sports? Kansas in hoops is the only attraction, and heck you can play them OOC in the Big East.

I know, you can say there are $31m reasons to do it, but this is IMO a rare case where the money isn't worth it.

As I've posted previously, QV, we have to consider how the conferences could look in the future. The Big 12 very likely will have more members at some point than the 12 for which it is prepping near term. Louisville, BC, Syracuse and Pitt could be in the Big 12 at some point, thus making the league vastly more appealing to UConn than is currently the case. UConn has to think about the long term and act promptly if given a P5 membership chance (as a second chance might not materialize).

Joining the Big 12 now (if an offer is extended) could be a "one step back to take two steps forward" move.

(06-06-2023 03:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 03:39 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Why would UConn want to move to the B12? They are already in a very good BB conference with better travel, their BB budget is second only to Duke and they are having great success where they are? I'm a big believer in "don't fix what isn't broken."

Money and more money.

Until they get an invitation, no one knows what the money will actually be. For example, we don’t know if they’ll be offered a full share right out of the gate. We do know that a change of conferences will not change their money problems immediately because there will be exit fees, entrance fees, and there will be NCAA tournament money left behind - yes, their share of the national championship money that they just earned for the Big East. And there will be increased costs. There is also the risk they run of a decline in attendance as occurred when they occurred in the AAC.

University presidents care about athletics primarily for the PR benefits that they provide for the university. UConn’s basketball rise has been accompanied by increased out-of-state enrollment, which today is about 30%. Thirty years ago before they achieved a national reputation for basketball it was about 12%. That out-of-state enrollment is heavily from the Northeast. Every men’s and women’s basketball headline vs a northeastern opponent and in the BE Tournament is good PR for UConn in that region and helps to make the university more attractive to potential out of state students in the geographic area from which it draws. Just as was the case in the AAC, headlines in the Big XII do nothing to help sell the university in UConn’s student recruiting area.

Those out of state students pay more than double the tuition of in state students. University presidents care about that sort of thing. That is also revenue for the university which the president doesn’t want to jeopardize. Leaving the university’s mission out of the conversation ignores the fact that this isn’t a matter of organizing a minor league franchise. There are other considerations.

One other factor for the university president is to protect their existing assets. Basketball reputation is a significant asset. That declined during the AAC years. Restoring that had to be a factor in the move back to the Bug East. A move to the Big XII in hopes of improving football could have the opposite effect. It could hurt their basketball product with no guarantee that football will improve. Football could actually get destroyed. Is the Big XII the best place to build a football program which hasn’t had a winning season in a dozen years? Is the timing right?