(12-13-2022 11:51 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 11:01 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  There is no way that in any aPACalypse, or WAC feeding frenzy, the Big West will stand pat and do nothing. Because either some MWC remnants will find their back way in - most of the MWC were in the Big West at one point in time - or GCU will bribe their way in. They make sense geographically, athletically, and make cents period.

What do you think, Mongoose? Am I way off here? GCU checks off several boxes. Put them in the Big West as the 12th member and you got a nice southwest presence. Maintains balance across the board and Phoenix is accesible enough to Honolulu. I'd do a signature bet that GCU joins if things hit the fan.

GCU just lost its legal effort to overturn the Education Department's determination that it's still a for-profit university.

https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-...it/637913/

Given that, I really don't see any chance of GCU buying its way into the Big West. It's just not an institutional fit and even if the CSUs are willing to go along the UCs probably won't.

The UCs can't hold their noses too high after letting in Cal State Bakersfield. GCU shares a commonality with the entire conference sans Hawaii, that Sacramento State does not.

GCU - like all of the California Big West members - spent time in the Division 2 CCAA. They played alongside UC San Diego, UC Riverside, UC Davis and Cal State Bakersfield before moving up to Division 1. Granted, that was also before they converted into a for-profit. I'd love to find out how much that common history, plus their money, counts for those three UCs.

(12-13-2022 11:35 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-11-2022 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Aka... C-USA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC/A-Sun- stop pretending you are big time.

You left out the worst FBS conference of 2022: the Mountain West.

1. SEC (0.76)
2. Big 12 (0.74)
--------------------
3. Big 10 (0.65)
4. ACC (0.63)
5. Pac-12 (0.60)
--------------------
6. AAC (0.493)
7. SBC (0.486)
--------------------
8. C-USA (0.37)
9. MAC (0.353)
10. MWC (0.348)

https://www.colleyrankings.com/curconf.html

I always thought Colley was one of the worst ranking systems out there. This supports that thought. MWC is having a down year and seems to be below the SBC, but out of the 99 polls in the Massey composite, Colley is the ONLY one that has MWC ranked last. The overwhelming majority have them ranked above CUSA and MAC.

(12-15-2022 12:18 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:51 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 11:01 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  There is no way that in any aPACalypse, or WAC feeding frenzy, the Big West will stand pat and do nothing. Because either some MWC remnants will find their back way in - most of the MWC were in the Big West at one point in time - or GCU will bribe their way in. They make sense geographically, athletically, and make cents period.

What do you think, Mongoose? Am I way off here? GCU checks off several boxes. Put them in the Big West as the 12th member and you got a nice southwest presence. Maintains balance across the board and Phoenix is accesible enough to Honolulu. I'd do a signature bet that GCU joins if things hit the fan.

GCU just lost its legal effort to overturn the Education Department's determination that it's still a for-profit university.

https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-...it/637913/

Given that, I really don't see any chance of GCU buying its way into the Big West. It's just not an institutional fit and even if the CSUs are willing to go along the UCs probably won't.

The UCs can't hold their noses too high after letting in Cal State Bakersfield. GCU shares a commonality with the entire conference sans Hawaii, that Sacramento State does not.

GCU - like all of the California Big West members - spent time in the Division 2 CCAA. They played alongside UC San Diego, UC Riverside, UC Davis and Cal State Bakersfield before moving up to Division 1. Granted, that was also before they converted into a for-profit. I'd love to find out how much that common history, plus their money, counts for those three UCs.

you are venturing into DavidSt territory. Brief overlap in conference membership decades ago means nothing in realignment.

UCSD was conference mates for 4 year
UC Davis was conference mates for 6 years
UC Riverside for 4 years

Nothing in common with the UC Schools, whatsoever.

Haslam (Montana AD) and Bresciani (former president at NDSU) give a fair and reasoned explanation of FCS when you're top half of the Big Sky or MVFC: To risk a move it has to be near perfect circumstances. The cost of the move has to be covered by the move itself.

North Dakota State could get an invite to the MWC if they lose members like the three top brands. NDSU, Montana and Montana State all could win the MWC over the others in there right now. The only ones that might challanged them are Air Force and Wyoming.

(12-15-2022 10:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  North Dakota State could get an invite to the MWC if they lose members like the three top brands. NDSU, Montana and Montana State all could win the MWC over the others in there right now. The only ones that might challanged them are Air Force and Wyoming.

The question is: Will the MWC go north or south for members?

Demographics (potential students), media, weather, and geography all favor and suggest south (like into Texas). Call it the curse of being in a state that touches the 49th Parallel.

Should the MWC lose three (assume SDSU, BSU, UNLV), they become very binary (west cluster or mountain cluster). The mountain cluster is larger. For east west balance I'd see them go after CA or west coast schools interested (UCD, Sac).

West: SJSU, Fresno, Nevada
Mountain: USU, Wyo, CSU, USAFA, UNM

(12-16-2022 11:42 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(12-15-2022 10:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  North Dakota State could get an invite to the MWC if they lose members like the three top brands. NDSU, Montana and Montana State all could win the MWC over the others in there right now. The only ones that might challanged them are Air Force and Wyoming.

The question is: Will the MWC go north or south for members?

Demographics (potential students), media, weather, and geography all favor and suggest south (like into Texas). Call it the curse of being in a state that touches the 49th Parallel.

Should the MWC lose three (assume SDSU, BSU, UNLV), they become very binary (west cluster or mountain cluster). The mountain cluster is larger. For east west balance I'd see them go after CA or west coast schools interested (UCD, Sac).

West: SJSU, Fresno, Nevada
Mountain: USU, Wyo, CSU, USAFA, UNM

Yup - that is one of the hard truths (one that Boise faces) - football program success comes and goes, geography doesn't change, demographics only change slowly.

(12-15-2022 12:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:35 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-11-2022 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Aka... C-USA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC/A-Sun- stop pretending you are big time.

You left out the worst FBS conference of 2022: the Mountain West.

1. SEC (0.76)
2. Big 12 (0.74)
--------------------
3. Big 10 (0.65)
4. ACC (0.63)
5. Pac-12 (0.60)
--------------------
6. AAC (0.493)
7. SBC (0.486)
--------------------
8. C-USA (0.37)
9. MAC (0.353)
10. MWC (0.348)

https://www.colleyrankings.com/curconf.html

I always thought Colley was one of the worst ranking systems out there. This supports that thought. MWC is having a down year and seems to be below the SBC, but out of the 99 polls in the Massey composite, Colley is the ONLY one that has MWC ranked last. The overwhelming majority have them ranked above CUSA and MAC.

The MAC, in particular the East Division, has done terrible beyond belief the last two years. Last year, Sagarin said that the average MVFC team was 10 points better on a neutral field than the average MAC East team.

(12-16-2022 12:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-16-2022 11:42 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(12-15-2022 10:06 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  North Dakota State could get an invite to the MWC if they lose members like the three top brands. NDSU, Montana and Montana State all could win the MWC over the others in there right now. The only ones that might challanged them are Air Force and Wyoming.

The question is: Will the MWC go north or south for members?

Demographics (potential students), media, weather, and geography all favor and suggest south (like into Texas). Call it the curse of being in a state that touches the 49th Parallel.

Should the MWC lose three (assume SDSU, BSU, UNLV), they become very binary (west cluster or mountain cluster). The mountain cluster is larger. For east west balance I'd see them go after CA or west coast schools interested (UCD, Sac).

West: SJSU, Fresno, Nevada
Mountain: USU, Wyo, CSU, USAFA, UNM

Yup - that is one of the hard truths (one that Boise faces) - football program success comes and goes, geography doesn't change, demographics only change slowly.

Boise State, UNLV, San Diego State and Fresno State are all the names that comes up. If they go? I could see Utah State goes to the west. UC-Davis does have a stadium and cash problems. Sacramento State has the stadium, but cash is the problem. If UNLV does not go?

San Jose State, UNR, UNLV, Utah State to the west. Hawaii is football only. They could grab Seattle, GCU, California Baptist or Utah Vally for olympic sports. I would go after Sacramento State since they are better prepare to be FBS ready than UC-Davis.
Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico to the east. I go with UTEP and ACU for Texas. If you go to 14 or 16? I grab UC-Davis and Cal Poly and invite Hawaii for all sports without inviting the Olympic sports, and Montana and Montana State. If Colorado State and New Mexico gets picked? NDSU and SDSU for football only would work.

(12-15-2022 12:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:35 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-11-2022 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Aka... C-USA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC/A-Sun- stop pretending you are big time.

You left out the worst FBS conference of 2022: the Mountain West.

1. SEC (0.76)
2. Big 12 (0.74)
--------------------
3. Big 10 (0.65)
4. ACC (0.63)
5. Pac-12 (0.60)
--------------------
6. AAC (0.493)
7. SBC (0.486)
--------------------
8. C-USA (0.37)
9. MAC (0.353)
10. MWC (0.348)

https://www.colleyrankings.com/curconf.html

I always thought Colley was one of the worst ranking systems out there. This supports that thought. MWC is having a down year and seems to be below the SBC, but out of the 99 polls in the Massey composite, Colley is the ONLY one that has MWC ranked last. The overwhelming majority have them ranked above CUSA and MAC.

"Seems to be" below the SBC?

98 out of those 100 polls say the MWC is below the SBC. "Seems" a little odd that you didn't state it like you did for your "MWC in last" counterpoint.

I always thought the perfect situation out West was a football only FBS conference. Maybe two or all three California schools the top of the Big Sky and MVFC. With everyone keeping Olympics in their current conference. The Members could even pay one Olympic FCS conference member to play up each year. So Montana could host EWU every couple years or Weber St host ISU. Keeping a more well rounded rivalry than just having basketball . A football only conference with 5 flagship schools and UC Davis is pretty strong academically for a G? whatever conference.

(12-16-2022 02:43 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-15-2022 12:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:35 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-11-2022 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Aka... C-USA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC/A-Sun- stop pretending you are big time.

You left out the worst FBS conference of 2022: the Mountain West.

1. SEC (0.76)
2. Big 12 (0.74)
--------------------
3. Big 10 (0.65)
4. ACC (0.63)
5. Pac-12 (0.60)
--------------------
6. AAC (0.493)
7. SBC (0.486)
--------------------
8. C-USA (0.37)
9. MAC (0.353)
10. MWC (0.348)

https://www.colleyrankings.com/curconf.html

I always thought Colley was one of the worst ranking systems out there. This supports that thought. MWC is having a down year and seems to be below the SBC, but out of the 99 polls in the Massey composite, Colley is the ONLY one that has MWC ranked last. The overwhelming majority have them ranked above CUSA and MAC.

"Seems to be" below the SBC?

98 out of those 100 polls say the MWC is below the SBC. "Seems" a little odd that you didn't state it like you did for your "MWC in last" counterpoint.

I just pointed out that your claim about the MWC was an extremely bad take, almost like you found the 1 in 100 that supported it.

I wasn't trying to make your point about the SBC being better this year. I DID agree with you. Many of you SBC people on this board are just unbelievably insecure.

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

(12-18-2022 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-16-2022 02:43 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-15-2022 12:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:35 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(12-11-2022 07:45 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Aka... C-USA, Sun Belt, MAC, WAC/A-Sun- stop pretending you are big time.

You left out the worst FBS conference of 2022: the Mountain West.

1. SEC (0.76)
2. Big 12 (0.74)
--------------------
3. Big 10 (0.65)
4. ACC (0.63)
5. Pac-12 (0.60)
--------------------
6. AAC (0.493)
7. SBC (0.486)
--------------------
8. C-USA (0.37)
9. MAC (0.353)
10. MWC (0.348)

https://www.colleyrankings.com/curconf.html

I always thought Colley was one of the worst ranking systems out there. This supports that thought. MWC is having a down year and seems to be below the SBC, but out of the 99 polls in the Massey composite, Colley is the ONLY one that has MWC ranked last. The overwhelming majority have them ranked above CUSA and MAC.

"Seems to be" below the SBC?

98 out of those 100 polls say the MWC is below the SBC. "Seems" a little odd that you didn't state it like you did for your "MWC in last" counterpoint.

I just pointed out that your claim about the MWC was an extremely bad take, almost like you found the 1 in 100 that supported it.

I wasn't trying to make your point about the SBC being better this year. I DID agree with you. Many of you SBC people on this board are just unbelievably insecure.

Nah, I'm pointing out that you only choose to use hard numbers when it fits your narrative. Has nothing to do with insecurity, and everything to do with people not paying attention to the G5 landscape (an issue many P5 fans have). In fairness, I don't pay much attention to P5 stuff. I couldn't name the 4 playoff teams right now if I had to.

I wasn't aware Colley was 1 of the 100 used for the Massey Composite. I thought it was its own thing. If we look at the entire Massey composite, there's still a clear separation between the SBC at #7 and the MWC at #8, so it's still factually wrong to suggest the SBC is "pretending" to be "big time" when the MWC isn't.

Massey Composite:

1. SEC: 31.72
2. Big 12: 34.82
---------------------
3. Pac-12: 48.29
4. Big Ten: 49.81
5. ACC: 56.19
---------------------
6. AAC: 68.09
---------------------
7. SBC: 80.04
---------------------
8. Mountain West: 90.78
9. C-USA: 94.85
10. MAC: 100.24

(12-15-2022 02:51 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-15-2022 12:18 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(12-13-2022 11:51 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 11:01 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  There is no way that in any aPACalypse, or WAC feeding frenzy, the Big West will stand pat and do nothing. Because either some MWC remnants will find their back way in - most of the MWC were in the Big West at one point in time - or GCU will bribe their way in. They make sense geographically, athletically, and make cents period.

What do you think, Mongoose? Am I way off here? GCU checks off several boxes. Put them in the Big West as the 12th member and you got a nice southwest presence. Maintains balance across the board and Phoenix is accesible enough to Honolulu. I'd do a signature bet that GCU joins if things hit the fan.

GCU just lost its legal effort to overturn the Education Department's determination that it's still a for-profit university.

https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-...it/637913/

Given that, I really don't see any chance of GCU buying its way into the Big West. It's just not an institutional fit and even if the CSUs are willing to go along the UCs probably won't.

The UCs can't hold their noses too high after letting in Cal State Bakersfield. GCU shares a commonality with the entire conference sans Hawaii, that Sacramento State does not.

GCU - like all of the California Big West members - spent time in the Division 2 CCAA. They played alongside UC San Diego, UC Riverside, UC Davis and Cal State Bakersfield before moving up to Division 1. Granted, that was also before they converted into a for-profit. I'd love to find out how much that common history, plus their money, counts for those three UCs.

you are venturing into DavidSt territory. Brief overlap in conference membership decades ago means nothing in realignment.

UCSD was conference mates for 4 year
UC Davis was conference mates for 6 years
UC Riverside for 4 years

Nothing in common with the UC Schools, whatsoever.

Dbackjon, the B1G showed how truly desirable the UC main campus was. If the UC's don't hold their nose, it could come back in the form of the Grim Reaper coming for the Big West.

(12-18-2022 07:22 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

MVC usually get more than 2 bids. That was before schools like Creighton, Wichita State, and Loyola Chicago. They are usually get 2, 3 or 4 bids. Now, they are barely getting only 1 school in the tournament. They lost their bigger brands to the A10, Big East and the AAC.

(12-18-2022 07:22 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

In David's defense, it may not be dying, but minus CU and WSU, the MVC is not what it used to be, Loyola using the league to get a better gig didn't help. Murray may help, but they may also fall flat. Dying, no, but...

(12-19-2022 10:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-18-2022 07:22 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

MVC usually get more than 2 bids. That was before schools like Creighton, Wichita State, and Loyola Chicago. They are usually get 2, 3 or 4 bids. Now, they are barely getting only 1 school in the tournament. They lost their bigger brands to the A10, Big East and the AAC.

DUDE...Loyola JUST left! The conference had 2 bids a couple years ago! I can see if you said what Jacksfan29! said, but you have to go to the extreme! Sure the Valley is not the same, but by no means is it dying. Because of the portal, the conference will probably take a hit this season, but will rebound. Do me a favor and stop putting your spin on things and just deal with reality...PLEASE!

(12-18-2022 07:22 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

The MVC has gone from averaging 9th in Conference RPI ratings to 15th in the last few years. It is a dying basketball conference.

(12-19-2022 06:52 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-19-2022 10:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-18-2022 07:22 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(12-12-2022 01:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Missouri State sees that the conference is actually dying as a men's basketball conference, and looking for a greener pasture. They seemed to have money to do some upgrades to their facilities as we speak.

I started to just bypass this and move on. Then I said, nah, DavidSt does quite a bit of posting lies, er, I mean, half truths, wait...alternative facts. So now DavidSt, what rock solid, factual evidence or proof do you have that shows the Missouri Valley Conference is dying as a men's basketball conference? Proof, not conjecture!

MVC usually get more than 2 bids. That was before schools like Creighton, Wichita State, and Loyola Chicago. They are usually get 2, 3 or 4 bids. Now, they are barely getting only 1 school in the tournament. They lost their bigger brands to the A10, Big East and the AAC.

DUDE...Loyola JUST left! The conference had 2 bids a couple years ago! I can see if you said what Jacksfan29! said, but you have to go to the extreme! Sure the Valley is not the same, but by no means is it dying. Because of the portal, the conference will probably take a hit this season, but will rebound. Do me a favor and stop putting your spin on things and just deal with reality...PLEASE!

The post below basically confirms what you said. Glad you see the glass as half-full as opposed to half-empty.