Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

(11-28-2022 09:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

I think the Gavitt Games they were saying wouldn't be extended. I wonder how much in a 20 game conference schedule world the conference challenges will continue at all. Got 20 conference games and then 2-3 more in the exempt tournaments that aren't going away. I think teams would rather have the flexibility than having mandated challenges.

(11-28-2022 09:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

I think the Gavitt Games they were saying wouldn't be extended. I wonder how much in a 20 game conference schedule world the conference challenges will continue at all. Got 20 conference games and then 2-3 more in the exempt tournaments that aren't going away. I think teams would rather have the flexibility than having mandated challenges.

I saw those reports, but those were all before the Big Ten signed its TV deals where ESPN was completely shut out. With the Big Ten and Big East now being the 2 power basketball leagues that are largely FOX properties (particularly on weeknights), that makes an extension of the Gavitt Games more likely to me.

That being said, I agree that conference challenges for anyone that has a 20-game conference schedule might be more tenuous going forward and that's only going to be more the case as conferences keep expanding.

(11-28-2022 09:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

I think the Gavitt Games they were saying wouldn't be extended. I wonder how much in a 20 game conference schedule world the conference challenges will continue at all. Got 20 conference games and then 2-3 more in the exempt tournaments that aren't going away. I think teams would rather have the flexibility than having mandated challenges.

I saw those reports, but those were all before the Big Ten signed its TV deals where ESPN was completely shut out. With the Big Ten and Big East now being the 2 power basketball leagues that are largely FOX properties (particularly on weeknights), that makes an extension of the Gavitt Games more likely to me.

That being said, I agree that conference challenges for anyone that has a 20-game conference schedule might be more tenuous going forward and that's only going to be more the case as conferences keep expanding.

I thought there was the noise about that this year during the Games, which was after the TV deals were signed for the Big Ten.

Also, the Big East will be going up for bids in the real near future. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they at least split with ESPN.

you can't cut out them cupcakes

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I know I'm going to sound like "that guy" but this should pave the way to closer cooperation between the Big 12 and Big Ten, perhaps with an understanding to split the remaining PAC programs and bring Gonzaga into the Big 12 to solidify the West. Then the PAC can rebuild with MWC and AAC programs.

(11-28-2022 09:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

I think the Gavitt Games they were saying wouldn't be extended. I wonder how much in a 20 game conference schedule world the conference challenges will continue at all. Got 20 conference games and then 2-3 more in the exempt tournaments that aren't going away. I think teams would rather have the flexibility than having mandated challenges.

I saw those reports, but those were all before the Big Ten signed its TV deals where ESPN was completely shut out. With the Big Ten and Big East now being the 2 power basketball leagues that are largely FOX properties (particularly on weeknights), that makes an extension of the Gavitt Games more likely to me.

That being said, I agree that conference challenges for anyone that has a 20-game conference schedule might be more tenuous going forward and that's only going to be more the case as conferences keep expanding.

You're forgetting that the Big 12 is going to be a FOX basketball property going forward.

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I don't get this from the Big Ten's perspective. To the Big Ten, the ACC's slate of schools is much more attractive institutionally and geographically than the Big 12.

Especially with USC/UCLA coming on board - the California schools have no interest in more exposure to the middle of the country.


A Big Ten-Big 12 challenge will be a boon for KSU, ISU, Cincinnati, and (to a lesser extent given that all of their P6 games are on ESPN or network TV anyways) Kansas.

(11-28-2022 05:04 PM)AzonTheKid Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 09:21 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  It would make more sense to have the SEC play the BIG since they'll both be at 16 teams in a few years. The ACC could play the Big 12. Both of those conferences are just as strong if not stronger than the SEC and the BIG.

This is being dictated by TV contracts and who is with ESPN or FOX. Nothing more and nothing less.

My gut feeling: I don't think the Big Ten would sign up for a challenge with the Big 12. An expansion of the current Gavitt Games with the Big East is more likely to me. It also wouldn't shock me if the Big Ten eventually adds 2 more conference games to the schedule with the expanded league.

I think the Gavitt Games they were saying wouldn't be extended. I wonder how much in a 20 game conference schedule world the conference challenges will continue at all. Got 20 conference games and then 2-3 more in the exempt tournaments that aren't going away. I think teams would rather have the flexibility than having mandated challenges.

I saw those reports, but those were all before the Big Ten signed its TV deals where ESPN was completely shut out. With the Big Ten and Big East now being the 2 power basketball leagues that are largely FOX properties (particularly on weeknights), that makes an extension of the Gavitt Games more likely to me.

That being said, I agree that conference challenges for anyone that has a 20-game conference schedule might be more tenuous going forward and that's only going to be more the case as conferences keep expanding.

You're forgetting that the Big 12 is going to be a FOX basketball property going forward.

Not really. ESPN owns more Big 12 rights in basketball than Fox does.

Former Fox Sports Networks President Bob Thompson checks in:

https://twitter.com/rltsports/status/159...XR26osAAAA

(11-29-2022 11:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I don't get this from the Big Ten's perspective. To the Big Ten, the ACC's slate of schools is much more attractive institutionally and geographically than the Big 12.

Especially with USC/UCLA coming on board - the California schools have no interest in more exposure to the middle of the country.


A Big Ten-Big 12 challenge will be a boon for KSU, ISU, Cincinnati, and (to a lesser extent given that all of their P6 games are on ESPN or network TV anyways) Kansas.

That's sort of my skepticism on a potential Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge. From a pure on-the-court perspective, the Big 12 may very well be the best basketball conference. However, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge worked well because of the institutional fits and geographic diversity. The Gavitt Games with the Big East are sort of more like the proposed ACC-SEC Challenge where there are a lot of neighboring schools covering much of the same geographic region.

It's not really the same with the Big 12. While everyone obviously wants to play Kansas, it's not the same brand-wise in the lower half of the league (even though, once again, the actual on-the-court performance of the Big 12 is very high).

(11-29-2022 12:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Former Fox Sports Networks President Bob Thompson checks in:

https://twitter.com/rltsports/status/159...XR26osAAAA

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that Fox has more basketball rights than ESPN does. I think ESPN gets like the first 8 choices or something like that.

(11-29-2022 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Former Fox Sports Networks President Bob Thompson checks in:

https://twitter.com/rltsports/status/159...XR26osAAAA

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that Fox has more basketball rights than ESPN does. I think ESPN gets like the first 8 choices or something like that.

ESPN is essentially the primary Big 12 basketball carrier while Fox is the secondary one.

(11-29-2022 12:49 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 11:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I don't get this from the Big Ten's perspective. To the Big Ten, the ACC's slate of schools is much more attractive institutionally and geographically than the Big 12.

Especially with USC/UCLA coming on board - the California schools have no interest in more exposure to the middle of the country.


A Big Ten-Big 12 challenge will be a boon for KSU, ISU, Cincinnati, and (to a lesser extent given that all of their P6 games are on ESPN or network TV anyways) Kansas.

That's sort of my skepticism on a potential Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge. From a pure on-the-court perspective, the Big 12 may very well be the best basketball conference. However, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge worked well because of the institutional fits and geographic diversity. The Gavitt Games with the Big East are sort of more like the proposed ACC-SEC Challenge where there are a lot of neighboring schools covering much of the same geographic region.

It's not really the same with the Big 12. While everyone obviously wants to play Kansas, it's not the same brand-wise in the lower half of the league (even though, once again, the actual on-the-court performance of the Big 12 is very high).

Yes, the ACC and Big Ten were definitely the better pairs as were the SEC and Big 12. Blame ESPN for this. They could have just split broadcasting rights with FOX (or CBS or NBC/Peacock) but they had to screw over the Big Ten (and the ACC for having to settle for a lesser conference).

(11-29-2022 02:22 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:49 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 11:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I don't get this from the Big Ten's perspective. To the Big Ten, the ACC's slate of schools is much more attractive institutionally and geographically than the Big 12.

Especially with USC/UCLA coming on board - the California schools have no interest in more exposure to the middle of the country.


A Big Ten-Big 12 challenge will be a boon for KSU, ISU, Cincinnati, and (to a lesser extent given that all of their P6 games are on ESPN or network TV anyways) Kansas.

That's sort of my skepticism on a potential Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge. From a pure on-the-court perspective, the Big 12 may very well be the best basketball conference. However, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge worked well because of the institutional fits and geographic diversity. The Gavitt Games with the Big East are sort of more like the proposed ACC-SEC Challenge where there are a lot of neighboring schools covering much of the same geographic region.

It's not really the same with the Big 12. While everyone obviously wants to play Kansas, it's not the same brand-wise in the lower half of the league (even though, once again, the actual on-the-court performance of the Big 12 is very high).

Yes, the ACC and Big Ten were definitely the better pairs as were the SEC and Big 12. Blame ESPN for this. They could have just split broadcasting rights with FOX (or CBS or NBC/Peacock) but they had to screw over the Big Ten (and the ACC for having to settle for a lesser conference).

Big Ten put all their eggs in the Fox basket basically(Fox was controlling the negotiations for Gods sakes) so ESPN told the Big Ten to **** off.

(11-29-2022 02:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 02:22 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:49 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 11:23 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-28-2022 08:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Much like the recently announced MAC-SBC Challenge (two ESPN properties), ESPN is driving this train.

The future is an ACC-SEC Challenge and likely a Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge.

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...HPuKosAAAA

https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/1...PbuKosAAAA

I don't get this from the Big Ten's perspective. To the Big Ten, the ACC's slate of schools is much more attractive institutionally and geographically than the Big 12.

Especially with USC/UCLA coming on board - the California schools have no interest in more exposure to the middle of the country.


A Big Ten-Big 12 challenge will be a boon for KSU, ISU, Cincinnati, and (to a lesser extent given that all of their P6 games are on ESPN or network TV anyways) Kansas.

That's sort of my skepticism on a potential Big Ten-Big 12 Challenge. From a pure on-the-court perspective, the Big 12 may very well be the best basketball conference. However, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge worked well because of the institutional fits and geographic diversity. The Gavitt Games with the Big East are sort of more like the proposed ACC-SEC Challenge where there are a lot of neighboring schools covering much of the same geographic region.

It's not really the same with the Big 12. While everyone obviously wants to play Kansas, it's not the same brand-wise in the lower half of the league (even though, once again, the actual on-the-court performance of the Big 12 is very high).

Yes, the ACC and Big Ten were definitely the better pairs as were the SEC and Big 12. Blame ESPN for this. They could have just split broadcasting rights with FOX (or CBS or NBC/Peacock) but they had to screw over the Big Ten (and the ACC for having to settle for a lesser conference).

Big Ten put all their eggs in the Fox basket basically(Fox was controlling the negotiations for Gods sakes) so ESPN told the Big Ten to **** off.

Eh - the Big Ten had all 4 major linear TV networks bidding for their product plus Amazon. ESPN simply didn't bid as much as the others and wasn't offering any type of OTA time slot guarantees in the way that the other networks did - it's not personal, just business. Note that ESPN was actually projected to stay with the Big Ten along with a streaming package with Amazon until the USC/UCLA expansion occurred, which is when NBC came back into the bidding and the prices all drove up further. (Amazon actually bid more than both CBS and NBC, but it wasn't enough in the eyes of the Big Ten to offset the greater linear TV exposure.)

(11-29-2022 12:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Former Fox Sports Networks President Bob Thompson checks in:

https://twitter.com/rltsports/status/159...XR26osAAAA

It's not even arguable, the big 12 is clearly the best basketball conference today. But otherwise, Bob is spot on as always.

(11-29-2022 01:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:05 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Former Fox Sports Networks President Bob Thompson checks in:

https://twitter.com/rltsports/status/159...XR26osAAAA

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that Fox has more basketball rights than ESPN does. I think ESPN gets like the first 8 choices or something like that.

ESPN is essentially the primary Big 12 basketball carrier while Fox is the secondary one.

I assume that you have sources that I lack b/c of your long history in Realignment matters, do you have an actual breakdown of the big 12 basketball rights? All I've seen is "fox is getting some big 12 basketball" and "ESPN gets the big 12 championship in basketball" without any breakdown otherwise as to how it's split up. Thompson's tweet seems to imply a lot more big 12 basketball on Fox than I would have expected from what I've read, but he would likely know more about the actual breakdown than me ofc.