(11-16-2022 06:58 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  We know sad sack GMcc would like to play JMU in Fairfax so they can have a decently attended game once in a while. I hate VCU and Richmond, not the love to hate kind of hate, just hate

Mason is such a sad story when it comes to athletics. They had a legitimate fan base and an excellent program for many years. Not sure why they didn't just throw the house at Larranaga when Miami came knocking. Now it's a mid-tier program full of disinterested students and frustrated alums. I mean it's hilarious when I recall how douchy their posters on the old CAA Zone were, but sad from a rivalry perspective.

(11-16-2022 08:51 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:35 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  -Never been to a game before where the vast majority of the crowd sat down during the anthem, the anthem gets cut off halfway through and then they all popped up for the next song.

This bums me out.

Why? They need to end the practice in entirety. I'm not sure how sporting events became the time for nationalistic propaganda.

Their fans were pretty sorry before the Final Four run so not surprising to see them fall off. We always thought it was pretty funny at the CAA Tournament how a bad JMU team would bring so many more fans than a good GMCC team, or how UNCW would bring so many more from twice as far.

(11-17-2022 01:14 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Their fans were pretty sorry before the Final Four run so not surprising to see them fall off. We always thought it was pretty funny at the CAA Tournament how a bad JMU team would bring so many more fans than a good GMCC team, or how UNCW would bring so many more from twice as far.

I had plenty of HS friends that went to Mason and pretty much all of them regretted going there after the first semester, particularly those that lived at home. No school spirit, little sense of community and located in an expensive, traffic infested hellhole. I can't say I blamed them.

(11-17-2022 01:24 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 01:14 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Their fans were pretty sorry before the Final Four run so not surprising to see them fall off. We always thought it was pretty funny at the CAA Tournament how a bad JMU team would bring so many more fans than a good GMCC team, or how UNCW would bring so many more from twice as far.

I had plenty of HS friends that went to Mason and pretty much all of them regretted going there after the first semester, particularly those that lived at home. No school spirit, little sense of community and located in an expensive, traffic infested hellhole. I can't say I blamed them.

Took my kid on tour of the school and it was like a ghost town. I said let's give it another chance and get back on campus when it's at it's fullest, again it was very lame. Felt my kid would be totally missing out on a normal college experience by going to a suitcase college with so many students commuting. So glad that wasn't the final selection, no regerts on JMU.

(11-17-2022 01:12 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  

(11-16-2022 08:51 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:35 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  -Never been to a game before where the vast majority of the crowd sat down during the anthem, the anthem gets cut off halfway through and then they all popped up for the next song.

This bums me out.

Why? They need to end the practice in entirety. I'm not sure how sporting events became the time for nationalistic propaganda.

As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

(11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 01:12 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  

(11-16-2022 08:51 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:35 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  -Never been to a game before where the vast majority of the crowd sat down during the anthem, the anthem gets cut off halfway through and then they all popped up for the next song.

This bums me out.

Why? They need to end the practice in entirety. I'm not sure how sporting events became the time for nationalistic propaganda.

As an old soldier, that is absoluely sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

As a middle-aged former soldier, I don't see the need for the anthem to be played before every sporting event. I don't bemoan anyone who doesn't get teary-eyed at the sight of the flag. The flag is a symbol of the our country and people can have different relationships with our country depending on their experiences. Just get to kickoff and forgo the patriotism test. As a vet, I'd much rather someone sit down for the anthem and actually do something to help a veterans group than participate in an empty platitude before a game and call it a day.

"Empty platitude." Just WOW!

(11-17-2022 04:03 PM)Purple Wrote:  "Empty platitude." Just WOW!

My point is standing for 2 minutes (4 if it's Christina Aguilera) and doing nothing else to help a vet does not make you a patriot.

Certainly one can do both and NO ONE is worse off for it.

(11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote:  As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

Look, there's a big difference between "I love my country and am very proud of our constitution." and "F--- YEAH F-22 FLYOVER".

Also, it's intensely unfair to say "I am a veteran and you are disrespecting my contributions".

My literally proudest moment to be an American came during the post-Desert Storm parade. There were some "no blood for oil" protesters on the Mall, about 1/4 mile from the Capitol, in a shouting match with some soldiers. I asked a sailor next to me what he thought of it, and he said "I joined the Navy so those two groups of guys can yell at each other in front of the seat of power, and it's all legal."

The entire point, the one thing that really makes this country special, is the right to dissent, loudly and even ungracefully if you want.

I know that veterans were mistreated coming home from Vietnam. That was awful and we as a nation should be ashamed of that. It was our first loss in war, and our first time being lied to on a large scale about a war. The rage should have been reserved for the top, not for the grunts. However, since then, and that's been 50 years, there has been a "you must hate the troops and hate freedom if you're against the war in <wherever>."

I'm thankful people sign up to get shot at on my behalf. But let's be honest - most of the wars that we get into these days are NOT about defending MY freedoms. They're for geopolitical reasons (that may very well be justified), not about defending my existence. And it's either delusional or fundamentally dishonest to assert otherwise.

And more to the point, I'd like to be able to watch a football game without all of that politics above (SORRY MODS I HAD TO DO IT) going through my head. Because it's not just "boy I love my country", but other than "America the Beautiful", there aren't many patriotic songs that aren't about warfare.

(11-17-2022 04:09 PM)jmualex24 Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 04:03 PM)Purple Wrote:  "Empty platitude." Just WOW!

My point is standing for 2 minutes (4 if it's Christina Aguilera) and doing nothing else to help a vet does not make you a patriot.

Read _Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk_. Saying "thanks for your service" is also an empty platitude. You want to thank them? Make sure their VA benefits are showing up. Make sure they don't get denied PTSD help as the Army claims they were crazy before they enlisted. Ask them how they're doing, if their family is holding up, and if they've just come back from combat, if they need any help readjusting to home.

(11-17-2022 05:08 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 04:09 PM)jmualex24 Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 04:03 PM)Purple Wrote:  "Empty platitude." Just WOW!

My point is standing for 2 minutes (4 if it's Christina Aguilera) and doing nothing else to help a vet does not make you a patriot.

Read _Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk_. Saying "thanks for your service" is also an empty platitude. You want to thank them? Make sure their VA benefits are showing up. Make sure they don't get denied PTSD help as the Army claims they were crazy before they enlisted. Ask them how they're doing, if their family is holding up, and if they've just come back from combat, if they need any help readjusting to home.

Can I add one? Just stand for the national anthem. How hard is that? They will appreciate it much more than asking them how their family is.

(11-17-2022 05:05 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote:  As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

Look, there's a big difference between "I love my country and am very proud of our constitution." and "F--- YEAH F-22 FLYOVER".

Also, it's intensely unfair to say "I am a veteran and you are disrespecting my contributions".

My literally proudest moment to be an American came during the post-Desert Storm parade. There were some "no blood for oil" protesters on the Mall, about 1/4 mile from the Capitol, in a shouting match with some soldiers. I asked a sailor next to me what he thought of it, and he said "I joined the Navy so those two groups of guys can yell at each other in front of the seat of power, and it's all legal."

The entire point, the one thing that really makes this country special, is the right to dissent, loudly and even ungracefully if you want.

I know that veterans were mistreated coming home from Vietnam. That was awful and we as a nation should be ashamed of that. It was our first loss in war, and our first time being lied to on a large scale about a war. The rage should have been reserved for the top, not for the grunts. However, since then, and that's been 50 years, there has been a "you must hate the troops and hate freedom if you're against the war in <wherever>."

I'm thankful people sign up to get shot at on my behalf. But let's be honest - most of the wars that we get into these days are NOT about defending MY freedoms. They're for geopolitical reasons (that may very well be justified), not about defending my existence. And it's either delusional or fundamentally dishonest to assert otherwise.

And more to the point, I'd like to be able to watch a football game without all of that politics above (SORRY MODS I HAD TO DO IT) going through my head. Because it's not just "boy I love my country", but other than "America the Beautiful", there aren't many patriotic songs that aren't about warfare.

I never said that this is about me. It isn't! To me, this is about those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I can only imagine how their families feel watching the sitting and kneeling. If you can't see how they may be very hurt by that, then you just don't get it.

I agree with you on the unnecesary wars and worthless leaders who sent our duty-bound youngsters into harm's way to never return. Vietnam is a less-than-shining example. And, you are right, those who returned from Vietnam were cussed at and disrespected by those who had nary a clue as to their motives for risking their lives. It was in fact, for the benefit of those who were spitting on them, or so they were told while being led to the killing field.

But, I get it. It is all cool and woke and progressive to sit on one's ass smiling as the national anthem is being played. How are those who do that any better than the woke hippies who screamed at our soldiers in the airports and on the streets?

And, this isn't about politics, as you suggest. It is a social issue. It is about an American tradition as old as the game itself, like throwing out the first pitch in MLB.

The bottom line is if 49,500 fans in a stadium stand for the national anthem (Howard example notwithstanding) and 500 decide to kneel or sit, most doing it not because they are on some warped crusade, but because it is an attention-grabbing play, making them look cool and woke. So, why should that 1% rule the day?

I know! If you would rather not stand for the national anthem, tailgate a little longer and take your seat after the anthem has been played. Everyone's a winner!

Now, pleas mods, lock this thread!

(11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 01:12 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  

(11-16-2022 08:51 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:35 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  -Never been to a game before where the vast majority of the crowd sat down during the anthem, the anthem gets cut off halfway through and then they all popped up for the next song.

This bums me out.

Why? They need to end the practice in entirety. I'm not sure how sporting events became the time for nationalistic propaganda.

As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

Agree and thank you for your service, Purple (edit: and Alex regardless if it’s viewed as an empty platitude, I’m truly grateful to those that served and sacrificed for our freedoms).

I don't actually think that the anthem is exclusively for veterans, although it is that. I'd say it's a ritual that communicates that despite our many differences we are one nation and proud of our shared heritage. This is why it's perfect before a game, we may not be cheering for the same sports team but we are on the same American team.

(11-17-2022 04:29 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Certainly one can do both and NO ONE is worse off for it.

Bingo!

(11-17-2022 06:45 PM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  I don't actually think that the anthem is exclusively for veterans, although it is that. I'd say it's a ritual that communicates that despite our many differences we are one nation and proud of our shared heritage. This is why it's perfect before a game, we may not be cheering for the same sports team but we are on the same American team.

Perfectly said!

I think jmualex24 is spot on in that it doesn't represent the same thing to everyone. Some portray it to purely represent the military and especially people who have given their lives in the military, but try to understand that when people protest the anthem or the flag they aren't seeing it that same way and then disrespecting those things. It represents the country as a whole, to me that means it represents a country with a ton of racism and oppression in its past and also its present. I understand you don't see it the same way, hopefully you can understand I don't see it the same way you do.

I've always stood and faced the flag with my hand over my heart though except for once. Personally I'd always either observe it properly or protest it, no in between. I think the setting matters some too, I'd probably feel a little obnoxious and offensive, like most around me are likely taking it the wrong way, by sitting at a JMU game. At Howard if you sit, obviously many more people would see it the same way and you'd feel more like your intent is understood as just some random guy sitting in the stands. As a player you have more of a platform and it'd feel more impactful and less obnoxious even in settings where it's less popular.

I expect this thread will be locked but in the meantime I guess not much harm in derailing a game thread of a game we've moved on from anyway. Just as long as everyone can stay respectful towards people who see things differently.

(11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote:  

(11-17-2022 01:12 PM)14SemesterDuke Wrote:  

(11-16-2022 08:51 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:35 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  -Never been to a game before where the vast majority of the crowd sat down during the anthem, the anthem gets cut off halfway through and then they all popped up for the next song.

This bums me out.

Why? They need to end the practice in entirety. I'm not sure how sporting events became the time for nationalistic propaganda.

As an old soldier, that is absoluely sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.

The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.

I still get chills when I see our flag and even a tear when a stadium full of those who understand rise to their feet to honor it. And, I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad, I will defend your First Amendment right to express yourself as you choose.

I hear you Purple, I stand proudly for the anthem and sometimes can’t help but have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. I take pride in it and while I didn’t serve I fully respect those that fought to preserve our rights. Icing on the cake is a flyover, like we had at the ODU game. If it’s not your thing then so be it, but don’t disrespect it. When they announce to “please stand and gentleman please remove your hats for the anthem” is your cue to either get up and follow suit or stay seated and shut up while others honor it.