A quote allegedly from the moderate Republican governor of New Hampshire. A recognition that the Republicans need to cut ties with Donald Trump. Trump places an unnecessary burden on the party when 60% of the country would never consider supporting him under any circumstance. His support is hard capped at 40%. That's a lot of moderates. That's a lot of Independants who would consider voting Republican but won't with Trump directing the show. Moderates and Independence who *would have* voted Republican because the Democrats have leaned so far left. The Democrats actually spent $50 million dollars supporting far right candidates, all of which loss to the Democrats in the election. Trump's hardcore 40% isn't going to win. His continuous hissy fits need to be discarded... Get rid of the crazy first and I think both parties will feel the pressure to move towards the middle. Win win

Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

You have to admit you're crazy before you take the pill. This board is proof that only about half the repubs have "aWOKEn".

(11-12-2022 08:50 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

Not all Dems are too far left. There are pulls for some of the moderate Dems to cater to that based to win primaries but then shift to the middle. It is the same with Republicans as well. The far left and far right wants to demonized everybody on one side and the others.

(11-12-2022 09:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all Dems are too far left.

No, but their leaders are. And the party is clearly trending that direction.

And republicans have their heads wedged too far up their asses to take advantage.

(11-12-2022 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all Dems are too far left.

No, but their leaders are. And the party is clearly trending that direction.

And republicans have their heads wedged too far up their asses to take advantage.

This is another post from you, owl#’s, where I yet again am left wondering what it is that you know than I am too dense to figure out.

The only clear lesson that I am able to draw from Tuesday’s results is that Donald Trump is political poison. The sooner he is out of the equation, the better off our country will be.

Is there something else that I am missing? For instance, was there something that Lee Zeldin (a non-Trumper) could have done in New York that would have carried that election for him?

Stated differently, do you believe (as I sense you do) that Republicans blew it generally this past Tuesday? Or is it just possible that the disappointing outcome really is limited to the ill effects of a political charlatan more interested in his own self-image than the good of our nation?

(11-12-2022 10:25 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I yet again am left wondering what it is that you know than I am too dense to figure out, owl#’s.
The only clear lesson that I am able to draw from Tuesday’s results is that Donald Trump is political poison. The sooner he is out of the equation, the better off our country will be.
Stated differently, do you believe (as I sense you do) that Republicans blew it generally this past Tuesday? Or is it just possible that the disappointing outcome really is limited to the ill effects of a political charlatan more interested in his own self-image than the good of our nation?

Happy to respond. Political races come down to personalities or policies. The more it is about personalities, the more democrats win; the more it's about issues, the more republicans win. Trump made it about personalities, back to the republican primaries. He was a less unlikable personality than Hillary, so he beat her (although even then he did not win the popular vote). MSM spent four years of character assassination, so he could not even beat Biden, who was about 2 IQ points above a Brussels sprout.

The most successful republican election in recent memory was 1994. Newt very skillfully made it about issues with his Contract, and made issues bigger than personalities. Perhaps even more important, Newt managed to enforce the discipline to avoid issues that were bad for republicans and to change the subject quickly whenever interviewers tried to go there.

What I hold against republicans is their failure to make it about issues. Because they didn't fill up the conversation with issues that were good for them, they allowed the democrats to make abortion into what some polls suggest was the second most important issue to voters. McCarthy's "Commitment to America" was a pretty pathetic effort to revive what Newt achieved with his Contract. No specifics, way too little, way too late.

If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. That's what I see happened to republicans with Donald Trump. Now they need to figure out how to get rid of him, unless democrats martyr him for them.

(11-12-2022 10:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 10:25 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I yet again am left wondering what it is that you know than I am too dense to figure out, owl#’s.
The only clear lesson that I am able to draw from Tuesday’s results is that Donald Trump is political poison. The sooner he is out of the equation, the better off our country will be.
Stated differently, do you believe (as I sense you do) that Republicans blew it generally this past Tuesday? Or is it just possible that the disappointing outcome really is limited to the ill effects of a political charlatan more interested in his own self-image than the good of our nation?

Happy to respond. Political races come down to personalities or policies. The more it is about personalities, the more democrats win; the more it's about issues, the more republicans win. Trump made it about personalities, back to the republican primaries. He was a less unlikable personality than Hillary, so he beat her (although even then he did not win the popular vote). MSM spent four years of character assassination, so he could not even beat Biden, who was about 2 IQ points above a Brussels sprout.

The most successful republican election in recent memory was 1994. Newt very skillfully made it about issues with his Contract, and made issues bigger than personalities. Perhaps even more important, Newt managed to enforce the discipline to avoid issues that were bad for republicans and to change the subject quickly whenever interviewers tried to go there.

What I hold against republicans is their failure to make it about issues. Because they didn't fill up the conversation with issues that were good for them, they allowed the democrats to make abortion into what some polls suggest was the second most important issue to voters. McCarthy's "Commitment to America" was a pretty pathetic effort to revive what Newt achieved with his Contract. No specifics, way too little, way too late.

If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. That's what I see happened to republicans with Donald Trump. Now they need to figure out how to get rid of him, unless democrats martyr him for them.

Excellent post. Thank you.

Good issues for republicans: Economy, Safety and security
Bad issues for republicans: Abortion, 2020 election was stolen

Issues that republicans could turn in their favor: Health care (by adopting Bismarck), Welfare (by adopting negative income tax or Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund), Budget (by coming up with a way to balance the budget without draconian taxes or cuts)

Issue they really need to finesse: Election security (need to make serious improvements, but cannot address in "stolen" 2020 election context)

(11-12-2022 08:50 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

I don’t think the Democrats over performed—-I think the Republicans over promised. The Republicans were defending far more seats than the Democrats, so the political map never favored the republicans. It’s odd, because a year ago everyone seemed to understand that and many were pessimistic about the chances for the Republicans to win back EITHER house of Congress. McConnell was pessimistic that the Republicans chances to win the Senate just a month or two ago. Basically, some commentators just got way out over their skis without really analyzing the maps and began counting tight races (even if Republicans trailed) as wins. Given the election map that had republicans defending far more seats than Democrats—the results are pretty darn good. Republicans will easily win the house and still have a shot to take the Senate.

(11-12-2022 11:03 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 08:50 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

I don’t think the Democrats over performed—-I think the Republicans over promised. The Republicans were defending far more seats than the Democrats, so the political map never favored the republicans. It’s odd, because a year ago everyone seemed to understand that and many were pessimistic about the chances for the Republicans to win back EITHER house of Congress. McConnell was pessimistic that the Republicans fouls win the Senate just a month or two ago. Basically, some commentators just git way out over their skis without really analyzing the maps and began counting tight races (even if Republicans trailed) as wins. Given the election map that had republicans defending far more seats than Democrats—the results aren’t bad. Republicans will easily win the house and still have a shot to take the Senate.

You have a valid point about the Senate map, but you gloss right over our historic defense of the House and don't even touch on our downballot successes. I agree you're almost certain to win the House, but when a party does "easily win the house" we are not still waiting for that verdict on Saturday, and perhaps into next week. But please, continue to pat each other and Kevin McCarthy on the head for what all reasonable people recognize as a deeply disappointing result for the GOP and continue down the same path.

(11-12-2022 11:08 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 11:03 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 08:50 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

I don’t think the Democrats over performed—-I think the Republicans over promised. The Republicans were defending far more seats than the Democrats, so the political map never favored the republicans. It’s odd, because a year ago everyone seemed to understand that and many were pessimistic about the chances for the Republicans to win back EITHER house of Congress. McConnell was pessimistic that the Republicans fouls win the Senate just a month or two ago. Basically, some commentators just git way out over their skis without really analyzing the maps and began counting tight races (even if Republicans trailed) as wins. Given the election map that had republicans defending far more seats than Democrats—the results aren’t bad. Republicans will easily win the house and still have a shot to take the Senate.

You have a valid point about the Senate map, but you gloss right over our historic defense of the House and don't even touch on our downballot successes. I agree you're almost certain to win the House, but when a party does "easily win the house" we are not still waiting for that verdict on Saturday, and perhaps into next week. But please, continue to pat each other and Kevin McCarthy on the head for what all reasonable people recognize as a deeply disappointing result for the GOP and continue down the same path.

There is no such thing as election weeks and election month before Covid era rules changes were introduced in 2020. You Dems, media and some Republicans keep lying to yourselves and others about that point thst it’s normal.

It’s not normal and thus by all traditional election standards and trends we have had now TWO ABNORMAL election cycles

I find it both humorous and sad that the dems are able to paint the GOP as 'crazy' or as their many TV ads said, "Joe Schmoe......TOO EXTREME for (insert state name here)".

Which party is pushing CRT in schools?
Which party is for sexualizing children?
Which party pushes the 57 genders nonsense?
Which party was all for lockdowns and other draconian covid measures?
Which party worked with teachers unions to keep kids out of school for over a year during covid?
Which party wants to defund the police?
Which party pushes no bail, pro criminal policies?
Which party does not believe that parents should have a voice in their kid's education?
Which party wants to make parents complaining at school board meetings into criminals?
Which party has weaponized government against its' opponents?
Which party can question elections and then turn around and call their opponents 'election deniers' when they do it?


This list could go on and on. None of those above are GOP positions. Yet, they call the GOP crazy. Upside down world. Clownworld.

WHO are the actual extremists? The party that projects its craziness on all of us. Yet, some low info, low IQ morons believe them.

If you are going to fix crazy, start with the democrat party. Policies, we've seen how bad they are over the past 2 years under democrat rule.

(11-12-2022 11:08 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  I agree you're almost certain to win the House, but when a party does "easily win the house" we are not still waiting for that verdict on Saturday, and perhaps into next week. But please, continue to pat each other and Kevin McCarthy on the head for what all reasonable people recognize as a deeply disappointing result for the GOP and continue down the same path.

There you go projecting again. The waiting for results is not a GOP thing. It is being done by partisans, slow walking results, dumping dem ballot results while holding back on those more favorable to the GOP. Trying to demoralize the right, which won't work.

You call this a deeply disappointing result for the GOP. If taking the House and Senate is deeply disappointing, you've got a strange metric there, chief. Anybody on the right who is deeply disappointed either did no research ahead of time or fell victim to the wild predictions of a landslide defeat of democrats or are listening to idiots.

The Republicans had to defend 20 Senate seats this cycle and only lost one in which an incumbent wasn't running. Last cycle the Republicans gained 14 seats in the House and the verdict is still out on how many will be gained this cycle. Next cycle the Democrats have to defend 23 Senate seats. But somehow the Democrats won?

(11-12-2022 11:17 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I find it both humorous and sad that the dems are able to paint the GOP as 'crazy' or as their many TV ads said, "Joe Schmoe......TOO EXTREME for (insert state name here)".

Which party is pushing CRT in schools?
Which party is for sexualizing children?
Which party pushes the 57 genders nonsense?
Which party was all for lockdowns and other draconian covid measures?
Which party worked with teachers unions to keep kids out of school for over a year during covid?
Which party wants to defund the police?
Which party pushes no bail, pro criminal policies?
Which party does not believe that parents should have a voice in their kid's education?
Which party wants to make parents complaining at school board meetings into criminals?
Which party has weaponized government against its' opponents?
Which party can question elections and then turn around and call their opponents 'election deniers' when they do it?


This list could go on and on. None of those above are GOP positions. Yet, they call the GOP crazy. Upside down world. Clownworld.

WHO are the actual extremists? The party that projects its craziness on all of us. Yet, some low info, low IQ morons believe them.

If you are going to fix crazy, start with the democrat party. Policies, we've seen how bad they are over the past 2 years under democrat rule.

Compare republican issue positions today to 60 years ago.
Then compare democrat issue positions today to 60 years ago.
Then tell me who is the extreme party.

Hell, JFK (tax cutting Cold Warrior) would probably be okay to run on today’s republican platform.

(11-12-2022 11:37 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  The Republicans had to defend 20 Senate seats this cycle and only lost one in which an incumbent wasn't running. Last cycle the Republicans gained 14 seats in the House and the verdict is still out on how many will be gained this cycle. Next cycle the Democrats have to defend 23 Senate seats. But somehow the Democrats won?

lol.

(11-12-2022 08:50 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Lots of truth to that! While we know that Democrats greatly overperformed what history told us to expect on Tuesday, the exit polls are very interesting. We overperformed with an electorate that does not approve of the President's performance in office, and overwhelmingly does not want him to run for re-election.

I heard one commentator put it this way, the midterm voters clearly decided that "out of touch is better than out of their minds."
Someone else posed the question of "what will Democrats do when Trump isn't around to lose elections?" It's amusing, but a serious question that I'm not confident we have a good answer for.

We go back to normal, boring, predictable politics where more than one party is a viable, legitimate option and the electorate merely disagrees on finer points between candidates. The way politics should be, and not front and center in the minds of every single person.

When the time comes, the US should take a long, hard, bipartisan look at the lessons to be learned from the past two decades. I hope one of those lessons leads to the end of the two party system.

Bipartisan in todays terms means coming along with progressive policies

- Forever Wars and continuous foreign aid is bipartisan
- limiting speech is bipartisan
- open borders is bipartisan
- digital currency is bipartisan
- Climate Change hysteria is bipartisan

(11-12-2022 10:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all Dems are too far left.

No, but their leaders are. And the party is clearly trending that direction.

And republicans have their heads wedged too far up their asses to take advantage.

“Left” in what way? If you are talking some “woke” social issues sure, if you are talking economics and health care policy absolutely not.