For the past few years there’s been hype surrounding Hammock’s ability to recruit players. But outside of the running back position he’s actually been mediocre at best, if not poor in recruiting skill players and athletes especially on defense. Many of His recruits only have offers from NIU or FCS schools. Rarely do you see any power 5 offers. For those who will say it’s hard to pull players with power 5 offers in the MAC then why do Toledo, WMU, and Miami Ohio do it with consistency? I like Hammock, and it’s easy to pour on him when he’s down. But the more you step away from the honeymoon era the more you realize things are not going well in all facets of the program

Hammock has been big on recruiting “P5 size” and we all loved it. The problem is they may have P5 size but they have FCS athleticism. The old formula of undersized athletes worked better.

I've never understood why NIU hasn't been out recruiting the entire conference. We've had far more success than everyone with championships, winning seasons, major bowl games, etc. and yet somehow WMU is taking talented players from Illinois (Corey Davis, Corey Crooms, etc.) and we somehow fall in middle with our recruiting classes.

(10-08-2022 06:57 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  I've never understood why NIU hasn't been out recruiting the entire conference. We've had far more success than everyone with championships, winning seasons, major bowl games, etc. and yet somehow WMU is taking talented players from Illinois (Corey Davis, Corey Crooms, etc.) and we somehow fall in middle with our recruiting classes.

WMU currently has signed more top 50 players in Illinois than NIU has. Two of them with multiple power 5 offers.

(10-08-2022 06:50 PM)JoeNovak Wrote:  For the past few years there’s been hype surrounding Hammock’s ability to recruit players. But outside of the running back position he’s actually been mediocre at best, if not poor in recruiting skill players and athletes especially on defense. Many of His recruits only have offers from NIU or FCS schools. Rarely do you see any power 5 offers. For those who will say it’s hard to pull players with power 5 offers in the MAC then why do Toledo, WMU, and Miami Ohio do it with consistency? I like Hammock, and it’s easy to pour on him when he’s down. But the more you step away from the honeymoon era the more you realize things are not going well in all facets of the program

I was at the game and noticed how tiny our players are. They look like a crop of High School kids instead on college football players

(10-08-2022 08:51 PM)NickF Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:50 PM)JoeNovak Wrote:  For the past few years there’s been hype surrounding Hammock’s ability to recruit players. But outside of the running back position he’s actually been mediocre at best, if not poor in recruiting skill players and athletes especially on defense. Many of His recruits only have offers from NIU or FCS schools. Rarely do you see any power 5 offers. For those who will say it’s hard to pull players with power 5 offers in the MAC then why do Toledo, WMU, and Miami Ohio do it with consistency? I like Hammock, and it’s easy to pour on him when he’s down. But the more you step away from the honeymoon era the more you realize things are not going well in all facets of the program

I was at the game and noticed how tiny our players are. They look like a crop of High School kids instead on college football players

No. This is wrong- by any measure.

They may not be good at “football” but they aren’t small.

The RBs aren't impressing either. They seem just ok to me. Average MAC RBs at most

(10-09-2022 08:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The RBs aren't impressing either. They seem just ok to me. Average MAC RBs at most

Yep! Did they somehow lose their talent or is it the O-line……or both?

(10-09-2022 08:56 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-09-2022 08:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The RBs aren't impressing either. They seem just ok to me. Average MAC RBs at most

Yep! Did they somehow lose their talent or is it the O-line……or both?

I never saw whatever it was that other people saw in AB and Wayley that indicated great talent. It's just more obvious this year with an O-line that isn't dominating.

(10-09-2022 09:00 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-09-2022 08:56 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-09-2022 08:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The RBs aren't impressing either. They seem just ok to me. Average MAC RBs at most

Yep! Did they somehow lose their talent or is it the O-line……or both?

I never saw whatever it was that other people saw in AB and Wayley that indicated great talent. It's just more obvious this year with an O-line that isn't dominating.

I was a big fan of Ducker, but we all know what happened there.

(10-08-2022 07:13 PM)JoeNovak Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:57 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  I've never understood why NIU hasn't been out recruiting the entire conference. We've had far more success than everyone with championships, winning seasons, major bowl games, etc. and yet somehow WMU is taking talented players from Illinois (Corey Davis, Corey Crooms, etc.) and we somehow fall in middle with our recruiting classes.

WMU currently has signed more top 50 players in Illinois than NIU has. Two of them with multiple power 5 offers.

That has always ticked me off that an out of state school and our competitor has a pipeline to Chicago area players and we end up fighting for the leftovers

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hammock has been big on recruiting “P5 size” and we all loved it. The problem is they may have P5 size but they have FCS athleticism. The old formula of undersized athletes worked better.

Here is my question. What is the philosophy? What is the plan on competing with the big boys today?

Under Novak it was find guys that can grow-- may be undersized now, but will grow. Then red-shirt them, feed them, strengthen them, and grow them. Meantime keep basic schemes, but drill them to where you execute really well. [EDIT: And have a coaching staff of experienced coaches.] Have smarts at QB, and steal some games. Kill stayed with that, but emphasized more skill. Worked size/ quickness/ leverage advantages. Doeren -- too short a tenure to say. Mostly just out-tough the other team. ok. Carey-- ? stay conservative on offense to not turn the ball over. Try to play good defense. Continued the philosophy to use quickness to beat mass. Played up for big opponents. (Took bowls as vacations- but different story- his predecessors did as well except for coach Tuke). But now what? Looks like red-shirting is out of favor. So ... ??? So... are we just going to rely on maybe getting lucky in the portal?

From what I have seen, I am just not sure.

But I know about three years ago I saw off-the-charts bad defense. They looked like guys who just didn't know what they were doing. And this year I have seen phenomenally bad defense. Like guys just didn't know what they were doing. Three years ago it was explained as "they are young." And now?

(10-09-2022 09:41 AM)Schaefer Beer Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 07:13 PM)JoeNovak Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:57 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  I've never understood why NIU hasn't been out recruiting the entire conference. We've had far more success than everyone with championships, winning seasons, major bowl games, etc. and yet somehow WMU is taking talented players from Illinois (Corey Davis, Corey Crooms, etc.) and we somehow fall in middle with our recruiting classes.

WMU currently has signed more top 50 players in Illinois than NIU has. Two of them with multiple power 5 offers.

That has always ticked me off that an out of state school and our competitor has a pipeline to Chicago area players and we end up fighting for the leftovers

Part of that is just numbers. Every year, the Chicagoland area produces just a ton of MAC - level type players. You can’t take even “most” of them. It is inevitable that guys end up elsewhere.

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hammock has been big on recruiting “P5 size” and we all loved it. The problem is they may have P5 size but they have FCS athleticism. The old formula of undersized athletes worked better.

I agree. Just looking at a roster or depth chart, you would think you are looking at a Big Ten team. Then you see them play, and they look like Western Illinois players.

One of the aspects that Joe Novak started and seemed to carry on after Coach Joe was developing 2 star recruits into good players. The amount of players that went to the NFL since the Novak era compared to Pre-Novak is quite impressive. Would you say Larry English and Jimmy Ward were NFL first round talent when recruited? Did you think they were draftable after their Sophomore years? But they developed year by year to be the talent they were by their Senior years.

Again, I don't know if they just overachieved last year and are showing their true colors this year or if development was hindered and they plateaued on talent.

(10-10-2022 07:26 PM)Schaefer Beer Wrote:  One of the aspects that Joe Novak started and seemed to carry on after Coach Joe was developing 2 star recruits into good players. The amount of players that went to the NFL since the Novak era compared to Pre-Novak is quite impressive. Would you say Larry English and Jimmy Ward were NFL first round talent when recruited? Did you think they were draftable after their Sophomore years? But they developed year by year to be the talent they were by their Senior years.

Again, I don't know if they just overachieved last year and are showing their true colors this year or if development was hindered and they plateaued on talent.

Yeah it tough to measure the intagibles but I think Coach Ham was thinking that he could coach players with size up. It's harder to coach size into players.

We always talk about next level but when you're a "super middleweight" it's tough to punch as hard as a "light heavyweight/cruiserweight".

Speed and grit can help us when we are undersized.

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hammock has been big on recruiting “P5 size” and we all loved it. The problem is they may have P5 size but they have FCS athleticism. The old formula of undersized athletes worked better.

That was one of the pre-season comments by another MAC coach in one of those pre season articles. He commented on the Length and Size of our players, but not as athletic as other teams.
We are the 2021 MAC CHAMPS! Hams can coach and recruit. Just because we go through a rough patch doesn't mean we suck and coaches are bad. That trophy didn't just hop in the trophy case by itself.

(10-11-2022 10:14 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Hammock has been big on recruiting “P5 size” and we all loved it. The problem is they may have P5 size but they have FCS athleticism. The old formula of undersized athletes worked better.

That was one of the pre-season comments by another MAC coach in one of those pre season articles. He commented on the Length and Size of our players, but not as athletic as other teams.
We are the 2021 MAC CHAMPS! Hams can coach and recruit. Just because we go through a rough patch doesn't mean we suck and coaches are bad. That trophy didn't just hop in the trophy case by itself.

It's great that we were MAC champs. But, were we REALLY that good? Did we dominate anyone in our wins (except for the MACC)? I think we see the answer to that question this year. I think the talent is there, but combining the player mistakes with the bad coaching has spelled disaster. And a defense that unbelievably got worse - which for all intents and purposes is a nonexistent defense.

(10-11-2022 10:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 10:14 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

That was one of the pre-season comments by another MAC coach in one of those pre season articles. He commented on the Length and Size of our players, but not as athletic as other teams.
We are the 2021 MAC CHAMPS! Hams can coach and recruit. Just because we go through a rough patch doesn't mean we suck and coaches are bad. That trophy didn't just hop in the trophy case by itself.

It's great that we were MAC champs. But, were we REALLY that good? Did we dominate anyone in our wins (except for the MACC)? I think we see the answer to that question this year. I think the talent is there, but combining the player mistakes with the bad coaching has spelled disaster. And a defense that unbelievably got worse - which for all intents and purposes is a nonexistent defense.

It has been years since the MAC has had a really good champion. So no, I do not think NIU was that good last year. Kent won the east with 7 wins and 6 of those wins were against MAC teams. In recent years the MAC race has pretty much been wide open because it is between a bunch of schools that are not all good.

Toledo appears to be the front runner this season but are they actually any good? The 4 Toledo wins this season are against teams with a combined record of 3-20. They will win the MAC and then lose by 50 in a bowl game to a Sun Belt school.

(10-11-2022 10:53 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 10:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 10:14 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  

(10-08-2022 06:56 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

That was one of the pre-season comments by another MAC coach in one of those pre season articles. He commented on the Length and Size of our players, but not as athletic as other teams.
We are the 2021 MAC CHAMPS! Hams can coach and recruit. Just because we go through a rough patch doesn't mean we suck and coaches are bad. That trophy didn't just hop in the trophy case by itself.

It's great that we were MAC champs. But, were we REALLY that good? Did we dominate anyone in our wins (except for the MACC)? I think we see the answer to that question this year. I think the talent is there, but combining the player mistakes with the bad coaching has spelled disaster. And a defense that unbelievably got worse - which for all intents and purposes is a nonexistent defense.

It has been years since the MAC has had a really good champion. So no, I do not think NIU was that good last year. Kent won the east with 7 wins and 6 of those wins were against MAC teams. In recent years the MAC race has pretty much been wide open because it is between a bunch of schools that are not all good.

Toledo appears to be the front runner this season but are they actually any good? The 4 Toledo wins this season are against teams with a combined record of 3-20. They will win the MAC and then lose by 50 in a bowl game to a Sun Belt school.

I thought the MAC was bad last year. Wow, is it bad this year. It’s like the entire league is retooling this season. At least last year there was Lombardi, Crum, Eleby, Gabbert. This year you have Rourke, Paddock and maybe Richardson.

Side note: has anyone noticed what Rourke is doing at Ohio? If Ohio gets a bowl game here’s Rourke projected 13 game season total after 6 games:

4,212 pass yards
30 tds
4 ints
247 rush yards
4 rush tds

4,459 total yards
34 tds
4 ints