If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

No, Duke with its great basketball but crappy football history seems better suited for a "Best of the Rest" P3 conference.

Assuming the SEC and Big Ten will be taking around 8 teams at most from the ACC, including Notre Dame, that probably means ND, Clem, FSU, UNC, NCSU, VA all get taken first before Duke. That leaves VT, Miami, GT, Duke to compete for the final 2 spots. Frankly Duke's football history and small school size will hold it back. Sure, It would be nice to get into the North Carolina market and Duke has awesome academics, but other options get the SEC/Big Ten into Florida, Georgia or Virginia market and you still get some top rated academics and better football as well. Football history is the Big deal breaker this time.

On the other hand, Duke with its basketball history is a ideal candidate for a Best of the rest P3 conference that will take in the the best remaining P5 schools that did not make it into the P2. This BOTR conference will be a huge basketball power with Kansas, Baylor, Louisville, Arizina, etc.

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

Source?

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

About the bolded, I am not sure why the SEC would want NC and NC State rather than NC and Duke. The latter is IMO much more appealing.

I do confess though that I have always been skeptical about NC State - to - the - SEC talk. I have never seen any value to the SEC in NC State, just as I have never seen any value in Kansas either.

Just MO.

(09-21-2022 07:21 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

Source?

Here, there, and anywhere.

Let's just chalk it up to my impression from all I've been reading/seeing of late.

I'm more curious if you all think Duke could be a potential B10 invitee on their own, without an NC pairing.

Duke and Kansas are in the same category to me. Yes, their CBB programs are elite but football drives the bus. UCLA would not have gotten a B1G invite if it wasn't for USC.

It really just depends on how big the B1G and SEC want to go after the ACC GOR expires. 20 teams, probably not. 24 teams, probably.

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

Do your trolling someplace else.

In a vacuum, yes, I think the Big Ten would be interested in Duke. It might be one of the few (if not only) basketball programs where it’s so engrained as a power in that sport. I’ve said many times that for my generation and younger, the school that nationally enflames the most passionate hate even when they’re not anywhere close to North Carolina is Duke - more than Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State or anyone else. They are akin to the Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers as a national brand that everyone has a strong opinion on that has nothing to do with local rivalries.

However, as long as Stanford and Cal are sitting out there as a free agents without a GOR, it’s also very hard for me to see the Big Ten really prioritizing anyone from the ACC outside of the FSU/Miami combo (and that’s purely for football reasons as they’re not perfect academic fits.)

As someone that made my realignment trade with a lot of analysis of academics and markets, even I can admit that we’re entering into a different phase of realignment. I don’t want to hear about schools with a “great market and academics” profile being added to the Big Ten as long as Stanford and Cal are out there because those two schools have both better academics and a better market than every other conceivable option.

(09-21-2022 07:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In a vacuum, yes, I think the Big Ten would be interested in Duke. It might be one of the few (if not only) basketball programs where it’s so engrained as a power in that sport. I’ve said many times that for my generation and younger, the school that nationally enflames the most passionate hate even when they’re not anywhere close to North Carolina is Duke - more than Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State or anyone else. They are akin to the Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers as a national brand that everyone has a strong opinion on that has nothing to do with local rivalries.

However, as long as Stanford and Cal are sitting out there as a free agents without a GOR, it’s also very hard for me to see the Big Ten really prioritizing anyone from the ACC outside of the FSU/Miami combo (and that’s purely for football reasons as they’re not perfect academic fits.)

As someone that made my realignment trade with a lot of analysis of academics and markets, even I can admit that we’re entering into a different phase of realignment. I don’t want to hear about schools with a “great market and academics” profile being added to the Big Ten as long as Stanford and Cal are out there because those two schools have both better academics and a better market than every other conceivable option.

To follow up on that then, what would you think about a pairing of Stanford and Duke?

(09-21-2022 07:27 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:21 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

Source?

Here, there, and anywhere.

Let's just chalk it up to my impression from all I've been reading/seeing of late.

I'm more curious if you all think Duke could be a potential B10 invitee on their own, without an NC pairing.

I think the landscape will look vastly different when that decision could be made. Ask me in 12 years.

If UNC is off the table, I can’t see B1G going for Duke

(09-21-2022 07:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  In a vacuum, yes, I think the Big Ten would be interested in Duke. It might be one of the few (if not only) basketball programs where it’s so engrained as a power in that sport. I’ve said many times that for my generation and younger, the school that nationally enflames the most passionate hate even when they’re not anywhere close to North Carolina is Duke - more than Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State or anyone else. They are akin to the Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers as a national brand that everyone has a strong opinion on that has nothing to do with local rivalries.

However, as long as Stanford and Cal are sitting out there as a free agents without a GOR, it’s also very hard for me to see the Big Ten really prioritizing anyone from the ACC outside of the FSU/Miami combo (and that’s purely for football reasons as they’re not perfect academic fits.)

As someone that made my realignment trade with a lot of analysis of academics and markets, even I can admit that we’re entering into a different phase of realignment. I don’t want to hear about schools with a “great market and academics” profile being added to the Big Ten as long as Stanford and Cal are out there because those two schools have both better academics and a better market than every other conceivable option.

If Stanford, Cal FSU, and Miami are all "off the table " (i.e. either the B1G or the SEC has already taken them), would the B1G invite Duke without UNC, Frank??

I doubt Duke gets into the Big10 regardless of what UNC does.

No

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

Yes

The Duke-UNC rivalry is greater than 1 program by itself. ($)

Duke would likely needed to be invited along with a combination of other schools (Duke, UNC, UVa) or Duke and UNC combo.

If the P2 become a de facto AFC/NFC, Duke might have a shot. I suspect they follow North Carolina unless if the P2 do a coordinated rivalry week by design.

(09-21-2022 08:31 PM)1Dukie Wrote:  The Duke-UNC rivalry is greater than 1 program by itself. ($)

Duke would likely needed to be invited along with a combination of other schools (Duke, UNC, UVa) or Duke and UNC combo.

I really see those 3 schools going together. I would wager them to SEC with PAC 4 going to B10 with ND. To me there are 16 spots up for grabs between the 2 and then there will be the best of the rest with 3 spots left for G5s.

(09-21-2022 07:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

About the bolded, I am not sure why the SEC would want NC and NC State rather than NC and Duke. The latter is IMO much more appealing.

I do confess though that I have always been skeptical about NC State - to - the - SEC talk. I have never seen any value to the SEC in NC State, just as I have never seen any value in Kansas either.

Just MO.

Yeah, I've never understood why people act like NCSU is a more valuable property than Duke. Conferences would actually prefer having Duke going 1-8 in football conference play every year and going to Final Fours over having NCSU go 3-6 in football conference play every year and having a basketball team that usually goes about 6-12 in conference play every year. Duke is a much better academic school than NCSU, to boot.

And if Rutgers sports can seriously generate NYC cable fees for the Big Ten, I see no reason why Duke basketball can't generate NYC cable fees for the SEC. Duke basketball would also solidify the Big Ten's claim to the entire NYC market for in case the cable providers are tempted to only give Rutgers credit for NJ as is frequently rumored.

(09-22-2022 10:26 AM)Poster Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 06:16 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  If NC joined the SEC, would the B10 still want to invite Duke without them?

In nearly every scenario where Duke joins the B10, they're paired with NC.

It's starting to sound like NC and NC State might potentially be paired to the SEC instead.

In that case, would the B10 still be interested in Duke?

About the bolded, I am not sure why the SEC would want NC and NC State rather than NC and Duke. The latter is IMO much more appealing.

I do confess though that I have always been skeptical about NC State - to - the - SEC talk. I have never seen any value to the SEC in NC State, just as I have never seen any value in Kansas either.

Just MO.

Yeah, I've never understood why people act like NCSU is a more valuable property than Duke. Conferences would actually prefer having Duke going 1-8 in football conference play every year and going to Final Fours over having NCSU go 3-6 in football conference play every year and having a basketball team that usually goes about 6-12 in conference play every year. Duke is a much better academic school than NCSU, to boot.

And if Rutgers sports can seriously generate NYC cable fees for the Big Ten, I see no reason why Duke basketball can't generate NYC cable fees for the SEC. Duke basketball would also solidify the Big Ten's claim to the entire NYC market for in case the cable providers are tempted to only give Rutgers credit for NJ as is frequently rumored.

Ummm, because that's not how it works.