(09-05-2022 07:26 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 06:09 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  If LaSalle chose to move Tom Gola's Attic to the MAAC, would the A10 go after Vermont?? Drexel??

I'd imagine we'd stick with 14.

The only program that should interest the A-10 at all is Belmont.


I'm hoping that Fordham, La Salle (and now GW!) DO take a philosophical stance of "We belong in the Patriot/MAAC." And UMass gets a decent invite for football.

But I highly doubt any of that happens. A 12-team A-10 with Belmont replacing those four would be pretty sweet.

C of Charleston gets it running and they would be equally viable.

(09-05-2022 02:53 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 11:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

To be clear, this is a kid from the campus radio station, saying he thinks they should move to a lower-level league.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

College president was nice to snot nosed 20 year old know it all kid, didn't make any promises. (Interim college president, as someone pointed out)

Quote:The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

Another challenge I'd mention is that it's not like there's an obvious lower-level league for GW to jump to. The Colonial is almost as spread out as the A-10, from Boston to North Carolina. The MAAC is Catholic focused, the NEC is football focused, America East is mostly state schools, either state flagships or second-best-public-in-the-state type schools like UMass-Lowell and Towson.

The interim college president rambles and speculates about how VAnderbilt doesn't really belong in the SEC except for baseball, and how if he had been there at the creation GW would be Division III like Washington U and Case Western Reserve and Carnegie Mellon and NYU (my list not his).

Better headline: Undergrad asks College PResident question.

Agreed. From a GWU standpoint, the A-10 is actually the best for them on the pure travel expense side of the equation (as there’s a hub of DMV/Richmond/Philly-based schools that are all driving distance) in addition to institutional fit. The Patriot League would be a good academic fit for GWU, but the travel expenses and times would actually likely go up in that league. The “far” schools in the A-10 would be places like Loyola Chicago and SLU that are still super-easy to reach by plane from the DC area.

So, GWU seems to be facing a choice where they would be foregoing higher revenue in the A-10 *and* increasing travel expenses for every other conference option. Call me crazy, but an option with lower revenue plus higher expenses equals a pretty easy decision to reject such option.

I would love to see the report that shows A10 travel is cheaper than Patriot League travel for GW. I’m assuming you can post it?

(09-04-2022 11:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

A-10 schools must be having budget issues.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

You totally misinterpreted this piece. That is the interviewer, who wants more funding for GWU sports, telling the president that the interviewer’s opinion is that they should think about dropping down if they’re not willing to provide more funding. That is NOT the GWU president’s opinion.

I read that too Frank, and while the interviewer did say that, the president didn't really bother to correct him either, stating if he had been around when GW went IA, that wouldn't have happened and that GW would have been D3. He also stated that Vandy had no business being in the SEC except for baseball, never mind the fact that Vandy has 10.3 billion endowment, only two billion and some change less than Duke's endowment, which he speaks very highly of.

(09-05-2022 08:29 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  So George Washington is going to downgrade but some random D3 school is going to find the $ to upgrade and offer FCS FB?

I did not say D3. It could be in another conference that is more regional where they can compete in D1.

With the landscape changes with NIL? If you are outside of the FBS? You may have to look to be more regional, and not be spread out like the Big EAST, A-10, CAA, Summit, ASun, SoCon etc. You may have to be more regional to save money if it gets to the point that money saved from travel be to go to the players as part of paid for play. I think this is a smart questions and opinion from the kid to asked. All the school Presidents, ADs and conference leaders are talking about right now.

(09-05-2022 12:43 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 12:34 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  GW would fit well with the Patriot League. They're larger than most of the institutions but not as large as Boston University, and given that they don't seem to use their size to help fund athletics, I doubt that would be an issue. They'd also fit well with the D-3 UAA.

If GW had kept football they'd probably be alongside Temple in the AAC. That said, the school is more like NYU as its structure goes.

Where the hell would GW play football? Very little land in DC

(09-05-2022 02:53 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 11:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

To be clear, this is a kid from the campus radio station, saying he thinks they should move to a lower-level league.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

College president was nice to snot nosed 20 year old know it all kid, didn't make any promises. (Interim college president, as someone pointed out)

Quote:The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

Another challenge I'd mention is that it's not like there's an obvious lower-level league for GW to jump to. The Colonial is almost as spread out as the A-10, from Boston to North Carolina. The MAAC is Catholic focused, the NEC is football focused, America East is mostly state schools, either state flagships or second-best-public-in-the-state type schools like UMass-Lowell and Towson.

The interim college president rambles and speculates about how VAnderbilt doesn't really belong in the SEC except for baseball, and how if he had been there at the creation GW would be Division III like Washington U and Case Western Reserve and Carnegie Mellon and NYU (my list not his).

Better headline: Undergrad asks College PResident question.

Call me crazy, but an option with lower revenue plus higher expenses equals a pretty easy decision to reject such option.

Crazy.

If George Washington decides to go anywhere, it may be to the Patriot League. American University was a member of the CAA and then moved to the Patriot League to be with like-minded institutions. Maybe GW does the same thing?

(09-05-2022 09:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Where the hell would GW play football? Very little land in DC

GW played football at RFK Stadium until it dropped the sport.

(09-05-2022 09:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the landscape changes with NIL? If you are outside of the FBS? You may have to look to be more regional, and not be spread out like the Big EAST, A-10, CAA, Summit, ASun, SoCon etc. You may have to be more regional to save money if it gets to the point that money saved from travel be to go to the players as part of paid for play. I think this is a smart questions and opinion from the kid to asked. All the school Presidents, ADs and conference leaders are talking about right now.

All the talking about Travel Expenses in conference realignment is just stupid.

It's essentially six of one, half a dozen of the other. If you're not in the same conference with nearby bus schools, you're playing them non-conference. If you ARE in a conference with nearby bus-schools, there's no one else local to play non-conference, so you're flying to those school.

VCU left the Colonial for the A-10. Last year in the A-10, they had 8 flights and 4 bus rides (Assuming 4+ hours is flight). The last year in CAA, they had 8 flights and 8 bus rides. They flew the same amount of times; which is basically the same cost at worst (A-10 cities ARE bigger and therefore probably cheaper), but could buy more home games in the A-10.

Having non-conference games close to home is actually smarter/better. Because in a close bus league, you have to figure out both who you need to play to make a good schedule while also budgeting how far you can go. In a far-flung league, it's easier to craft a non-conference schedule when most of it is nearby schools you can get to cheap, that your fans want you to play, and will forgo guarantees because everyone wants you to be home/home series for the rest of eternity.

Far-flung conferences and close non-conference opponents eliminate guarantee payments which off-sets cost of flights.

(09-05-2022 07:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  C of Charleston gets it running and they would be equally viable.

That's the thing... "Gets it running"

Anyone without football who isn't past the Mississippi River and "gets it running" can join the A-10. (And Gonzaga is welcome anytime).

I know my Bonnies would love playing in Charleston again. :D

The A-10 takes teams who control/dominate their mid-major leagues and or goes far in the dance while having A-10 infrastructure (Richmond, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Davidson, Loyola).

C of C could be that team, they just need to go to like, 3 NCAAs in 5 years.

(09-05-2022 09:18 PM)rtist Wrote:  If George Washington decides to go anywhere, it may be to the Patriot League. American University was a member of the CAA and then moved to the Patriot League to be with like-minded institutions. Maybe GW does the same thing?

I never really considered GW and the Patriot League.

GW is totally between the A-10 and the Patriot League. The A-10 is about "basketball first, basketball at a high level"; and the Patriot League is about "lots of sports, we're a 'Little Ivy,' all competing nobly for the league trophy."

And I have always assumed that GW was an A-10 program, not a PL program. But they have 22 sports and are spread too thin. And that's why they aren't having basketball success in a long time.

With Fordham, it's obvious... they're a Patriot League model; and they owned the Patriot League in the late 80s/early 90s, so the A-10 invited them. But they have a bigger athletics budget than Dayton and suck at basketball. They need to either slash their sports menu and devote their resources to being good at basketball, or go back to the Patriot.

I never thought of GW in the same way, but they're closer to Fordham than Dayton.


To me, it's about identity and effort. I'm not mad at a school that sucks. I don't want all the schools doing poorly out of my league (that's folly, because there was a stretch where my team was terrible).

But it's a brotherhood, and we need to be on the same page so that when one of us is trash, we're still making every effort to keep our brothers alive. And that's where scheduling comes in. You don't have to be great, you just have to "GET IT." Get what we're doing and play the team game.

Duquesne is freaking great. Duquesne "GETS IT." Duquense a couple years back was 5-13 in A-10 play and finished 15-15 overall. THAT is exactly what we need. Duquesne knew they'd be terrible, so they played MEAC and NEC schools, bottom of AmEast and CAA schools, and just tried to win as many OOC games as possible. THAT is how it's done!


I think the A-10 is better with GW in the league, because the DC market is big and a presence there is vital. But you gotta play your role every year. Take turns being up and contenders, or down and out of the picture. But when you're down, you've gotta win 9+ OOC games to help the league. And too many A-10 teams don't do that.

The A-10 has been too nice to schools not pulling on the same rope. If you want to focus on having the best basketball programs you can, that's why we exist; If you wanna do the "Well rounded athletic department" thing, the Patriot and MAAC are over there.

The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

(09-05-2022 09:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Where the hell would GW play football? Very little land in DC

I was surprised they found spot for a soccer pitch when I went their the first time.

(09-06-2022 12:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

And if they’re not George, they’re the American Eagles.

(09-06-2022 12:53 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 12:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

And if they’re not George, they’re the American Eagles.

Or Howard Bison.

(09-05-2022 01:04 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 11:31 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  This won’t be the last university to do this.

It might take a while for the ball to get rolling, though. So far - AFAIK - in recent years we've only seen Hartford leave the D1 ranks. Leaving "Division 1" is a hard pill to swallow, not just for ADs and coaches but administrators as well.

That’s true. There were multiple votes here at Louisville during the ‘70s and early ‘80s to stop playing football. Thankfully it wasn’t an easy vote. And that was before there was so much money to be made playing D1 football.

(09-05-2022 10:40 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Dayton and Saint Louis tagging along with the Zags to the Big East would solve 2/3 of that "problem"

I think that's what those three schools try to do. They just lobby like heck to join another conference. Once it becomes a real issue, though, I mean. But, SLU's already doing that with that whole "major announcement" for the practice facility and the cringey Joe Buck-narrated video.

I would be shocked if someone took themselves out and down of the A10. Not that some shouldn't just go (La Salle and Fordham especially). The only ways out are moving up or getting kicked out. That won't be happening...especially to G-Dubs, should they decide not to invest in NIL or overall operations like the others in the conference.

(09-05-2022 11:14 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 09:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the landscape changes with NIL? If you are outside of the FBS? You may have to look to be more regional, and not be spread out like the Big EAST, A-10, CAA, Summit, ASun, SoCon etc. You may have to be more regional to save money if it gets to the point that money saved from travel be to go to the players as part of paid for play. I think this is a smart questions and opinion from the kid to asked. All the school Presidents, ADs and conference leaders are talking about right now.

All the talking about Travel Expenses in conference realignment is just stupid.

It's essentially six of one, half a dozen of the other. If you're not in the same conference with nearby bus schools, you're playing them non-conference. If you ARE in a conference with nearby bus-schools, there's no one else local to play non-conference, so you're flying to those school.

VCU left the Colonial for the A-10. Last year in the A-10, they had 8 flights and 4 bus rides (Assuming 4+ hours is flight). The last year in CAA, they had 8 flights and 8 bus rides. They flew the same amount of times; which is basically the same cost at worst (A-10 cities ARE bigger and therefore probably cheaper), but could buy more home games in the A-10.

Having non-conference games close to home is actually smarter/better. Because in a close bus league, you have to figure out both who you need to play to make a good schedule while also budgeting how far you can go. In a far-flung league, it's easier to craft a non-conference schedule when most of it is nearby schools you can get to cheap, that your fans want you to play, and will forgo guarantees because everyone wants you to be home/home series for the rest of eternity.

Far-flung conferences and close non-conference opponents eliminate guarantee payments which off-sets cost of flights.

I agree that being in the A10 (far flung) for an eastern or Midwestern school makes some sense due to what you’re saying. That’s one reason why I think the UMass/MAC arguments are dumb. They need to join the MAC for all-sports yesterday.

But the formula doesn’t work as well out west where schools can’t bus anywhere. They’re trading in shorter, less expensive flights for longer more expensive. Consider this when the school doesn’t even have football, and you’ll understand why Gonzaga is still in the WCC.

(09-06-2022 12:53 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 12:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

And if they’re not George, they’re the American Eagles.

Or the Catholic Cardinals*. Or the Howard Bison. Or the Maryland Terps.


* formerly D1, but have you read David’s plan for them?