The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

(08-18-2022 11:09 AM)Todor Wrote:  The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

They US should give nukes to Japan and South Korea. That would level the playing field

North Korea Fuggin Sucks! So does China! On a macro scale not individually.

I know a lot of it is culture which we should stay out of but eliminating groups of people is never ever correct no matter how much you, I, or anyone disagrees with them. That is unless they are coming for your way of life.

Hard to argue the staying out of the amount of attention we give them with the problems at home though.

(08-18-2022 12:14 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 11:09 AM)Todor Wrote:  The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

They US should give nukes to Japan and South Korea. That would level the playing field

That’s the problem. We don’t want a level playing field. We want to be there, so we are probably stopping them from having nukes. That would largely eliminate the need for us to have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and dozens of bases all over Asia.

Some people seem to think we are there to protect South Korea and Japan. Get real.

(08-18-2022 11:09 AM)Todor Wrote:  The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

China already arms NK as covertly as they can, LOL. But with the idiot Biden* as POTUS and wholly compromised by China, I will not be shocked if BOTH RU and CN openly sell arms to NK.

I just look forward to China deciding drop the EXPOSURE bomb on Biden* and provide undeniable PROOF of how he is totally bought and paid for by China. Maybe they do Hunter first to watch Biden* squirm, LOL

That will be TOO DAMN SWEET.

(08-18-2022 12:44 PM)boss man Wrote:  China already arms NK as covertly as they can, LOL. But with the idiot Biden* as POTUS and wholly compromised by China, I will not be shocked if BOTH RU and CN openly sell arms to NK.

I just look forward to China deciding drop the EXPOSURE bomb on Biden* and provide undeniable PROOF of how he is totally bought and paid for by China. Maybe they do Hunter first to watch Biden* squirm, LOL

That will be TOO DAMN SWEET.

If he is bought and paid for, as you say, the last thing they will do is expose that. They would hold that over him forever to continue to get whatever they want from the USA.

Selling weapons to NK would be much less dramatic than resuming normal trade in all areas. North Korea would be the next economic tiger of Asia and they could build any weapons they want. Countries abiding by UN sanctions is the main thing holding their economy back.

China and Russia will likely end up leading the UN dropping most trade sanctions. All but a tiny handful of countries in the world have no problem with North Korea, especially not having regular trade with them. It’s not an isolated country at all like we try to portray them. As a nation, they have broad support in the world.

(08-18-2022 11:09 AM)Todor Wrote:  The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

North Korea is a bigger threat to China than anyone else.

(08-18-2022 12:44 PM)boss man Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 11:09 AM)Todor Wrote:  The “world” as defined by the West may consider North Korea a threat, but in reality they are only at odds with 2 countries that host the US troops and weapons aimed at them.

So far, Russia and China have gone along with the sanctions that only benefit the US and a handful of Allies, but in light of US aggression toward both Russia and China, they have little reason to cooperate with the US any longer.

If it creates a big mess for US and it’s allies, well, that’s just tit for tat and one the many unexpected consequences of US foreign policy that frequently ends up backfiring and costing the US taxpayers even more money.

It’ll be interesting to see how this progresses. Perhaps they will arm North Korea like the US does with Taiwan and Ukraine. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the teeth.

China already arms NK as covertly as they can, LOL. But with the idiot Biden* as POTUS and wholly compromised by China, I will not be shocked if BOTH RU and CN openly sell arms to NK.

I just look forward to China deciding drop the EXPOSURE bomb on Biden* and provide undeniable PROOF of how he is totally bought and paid for by China. Maybe they do Hunter first to watch Biden* squirm, LOL

That will be TOO DAMN SWEET.

Exactly. The N Korean arsenal is largely either Russian or Chinese produced (or domestic knock offs of the same). Heck, both China and Russia have been important in the development of N Korean nuclear and missile capabilities---not to mention that China likes to use N Korea as a conduit for the covert sale of technologies and products to rogue nations. Nothing really new here other than it would be more out in the open. As China has been quite adversarial over the last decade---I have no problem with the US treating them as such. I would begin by saying continued aggressive Chinese military expansionist behavior is forcing the US and its allies to possibly "reassess the One China policy". Balls in their court after that. They either behave or deal with a military arms race in the Pacific vs the US, Australia, Japan, N Korea, Britain, India, and the Pacific Isle nations while eating an economic crap sandwich as the west relocates to new manufacturing supply chains that dont include China, Russia, or their merry band of rogue nations.

A very important fact seems to evade peoples thinking. China needs us more than we need them. It's only recently that they have been able to be who they are and it's because of us. Cheap labor and cheap products are the driving force behind this. We buy most of what they produce and a lot of it from WalMart, LOL.

If we threatened to stop importation of their products until they behaved they would have two choices, start a war which would not fix anything or conform to them behaving as a requisite to doing business with them. China in a way is led by stupid people, just like here in the US. They fail to see the big picture. If a war ensued between the super powers no one will win, it's that simple. We'll be subjected to a middle ages lifestyle with feudal lords warring with other feudal lords. We have a good example even now in the world, all you have to do is look at places like Afghanistan. What does that country produce? Not anything important (unless you're Hunter Biden) only opium. Yes, they can produce that but that product is like one that at one time will not be consumed and thus will run out of style. People that use it will die off eventually or not be able to afford it, ah, poor unholywood.

Can anyone tell me one product that we can only get from China? I can't think of one. Remember that the US was self sustaining at one time, we could always be that again.

(08-18-2022 12:43 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 12:14 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  The US should give nukes to Japan and South Korea. That would level the playing field

That’s the problem. We don’t want a level playing field. We want to be there, so we are probably stopping them from having nukes. That would largely eliminate the need for us to have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and dozens of bases all over Asia.

Some people seem to think we are there to protect South Korea and Japan. Get real.

Japan doesn’t need America to “give” it nuclear capability. If they don’t already have that kind of arsenal, it’s because they have chosen as a matter of policy to forego that in the (perceived) interests of regional peace/stability. And for a while I think that probably did make some sense. But the cumulative impact of the last 30 years really has made it obvious that the US is an unreliable guarantor and, when the chips are down, everyone will have to fend for themselves.

Whether that change represents something “good” in the quest for peace is an open question. I think a world in which nuclear weapons are available to whoever wants them is going to result in a world on fire, probably sooner rather than later. And a nuclear-armed North Korea may well prove to be the atomic equivalent of Sarajevo before WWI. But — oh, well!

When push comes to shove, we’re a yapping Chihuahua tied up and behind a 6 foot fence. Sure, we can keep the neighbors annoyed by barking all day, but it when it comes to protecting anything, we’re useless. Our era has come and gone already. And instead of saving anything, we blew every red cent and borrowed tens of trillions on top of that. The biggest money flush in world history.

The quicker we realize that and stop spending half of our economy on foolishness, the better. When the dollar crashes because even more countries stop using it, we aren’t going to have anything left to live on. Can anyone say capital flight?

We had a chance to right the ship in the 90’s but blew it and let the deep state run loose. And now nobody takes us seriously and countries are openly planning to create more quagmires for us to spend on because to not do it would be to simply walk off the stage. We’re doomed, and are proving to be the worlds biggest fools.

(08-18-2022 04:01 PM)Todor Wrote:  When push comes to shove, we’re a yapping Chihuahua tied up and behind a 6 foot fence. Sure, we can keep the neighbors annoyed by barking all day, but it when it comes to protecting anything, we’re useless. Our era has come and gone already. And instead of saving anything, we blew every red cent and borrowed tens of trillions on top of that. The biggest money flush in world history.

The quicker we realize that and stop spending half of our economy on foolishness, the better. When the dollar crashes because even more countries stop using it, we aren’t going to have anything left to live on. Can anyone say capital flight?

I agree with some parts of that and disagree with some, but overall I think we see the bottom line in or near the same spot.

Quote:We had a chance to right the ship in the 90’s but blew it and let the deep state run loose.

Very true.

It’s hard to put in words just how thoroughly Bill Clinton’s 8 years in office damaged this country. Yes, I know he didn’t do it all by himself. And I know the D’s didn’t do it all by themselves. But America is a weaker, poorer, more divided nation because of him and his supporters. The bills came due after he was gone, but he really hurt us and we still haven’t recovered. I honestly doubt that we ever will.

(08-18-2022 04:01 PM)Todor Wrote:  When push comes to shove, we’re a yapping Chihuahua tied up and behind a 6 foot fence. Sure, we can keep the neighbors annoyed by barking all day, but it when it comes to protecting anything, we’re useless. Our era has come and gone already. And instead of saving anything, we blew every red cent and borrowed tens of trillions on top of that. The biggest money flush in world history.

The quicker we realize that and stop spending half of our economy on foolishness, the better. When the dollar crashes because even more countries stop using it, we aren’t going to have anything left to live on. Can anyone say capital flight?

We had a chance to right the ship in the 90’s but blew it and let the deep state run loose. And now nobody takes us seriously and countries are openly planning to create more quagmires for us to spend on because to not do it would be to simply walk off the stage. We’re doomed, and are proving to be the worlds biggest fools.

Your post is the message board equivalent of a yapping Chihuahua.

The US has the number one economy and the number one military in the world. As if thats not enough---they have assembled the largest economic and military alliance. In Ukraine, the vaunted Russian Army has ground to a halt suffering massive losses simply because the US decided to give the Ukrainian military and their tiny 4.5 billion dollar military budget the benefit of just a mere sliver of the array of weapons available in the US arsenal. Despite only 8 years to prepare and with little help from the terrain (its mostly open plain)---the Ukrainians have created a military quagmire for the Russians while the world has created an economic quagmire for the Russians. The war also has economic costs. The Russian economy will contract somewhere between 4 and 6% per the Russian Central Bank.

Unlike the Russians---who attacked a young nation, with few natural geographic barriers and had little time to prepare----the Chinese will face a Taiwan that has been preparing for 70 years and has a 100 mile wide moat to use as a defensive line. China is a world class economic power-----but---times are not that great economically there. Covid has wreaked havoc on the Chinese economy and the entire Chinese banking system is teetering on the brink of failure due to a real estate collapse. Many have seen their lifes saving wiped out as banks refuse to allow withdrawals and civil disorder has popped up as a result. Unemployment among the young is spiking. Its over 18% among those 16-24 years old. Thats not great---and I havent even mentioned the demographic cliff China is about to plunge over.....

So---while the US is far from perfect---we are still the hottest chick at the economic prom.

Frankly, Im ok with the idea that we arent going to rush to jump into every little brush fire war that pops up. I like how we are handling Ukraine. I wish we could sit out a Taiwan war as well---but with the entire high end chip industry situated in Taiwan----I dont think we can get away with sitting on the sidelines for that one. The good news is its mostly going to be a naval war---so it wont be the kind of quagmire that developed in Iraq and Ukraine. My guess is we would probably fight at a great distance, use blockade tactics, and strike using long range fires directed only at naval vessels and shipping. I dont think it would last more than a few months because it would become clear very quickly that Taiwan isnt going to be captured and the longer it goes on---the more everyone loses.

World, meet gog and magog.

North Korea has the US spending 100’s of Billions per year to counter them while they are powering their military with wood burning trucks lol. Imagine if Russia and China start ignoring our sanctions. Imagine how much we’d have to spend if they had OIL. We’ll be bankrupt…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP7FxiFIHE

(08-18-2022 06:43 PM)Todor Wrote:  North Korea has the US spending 100’s of Billions per year to counter them while they are powering their military with wood burning trucks lol. Imagine if Russia and China start ignoring our sanctions. Imagine how much we’d have to spend if they had OIL. We’ll be bankrupt…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP7FxiFIHE

OMG---we're all gunna die!!!!

Goodness gracious. China and Russia traded with them for years prior to the sanctions. The world didnt come to an end. Heck---here's some good news. Turns out, Ukraine has taught us that the same missiles we would use to blow up a North Korean wood burning truck will also blow up a Super Duper Russian Terminator Truck. The old missiles sitting in S Korea will be just fine.

(08-18-2022 02:01 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  A very important fact seems to evade peoples thinking. China needs us more than we need them. It's only recently that they have been able to be who they are and it's because of us. Cheap labor and cheap products are the driving force behind this. We buy most of what they produce and a lot of it from WalMart, LOL.

If we threatened to stop importation of their products until they behaved they would have two choices, start a war which would not fix anything or conform to them behaving as a requisite to doing business with them. China in a way is led by stupid people, just like here in the US. They fail to see the big picture. If a war ensued between the super powers no one will win, it's that simple. We'll be subjected to a middle ages lifestyle with feudal lords warring with other feudal lords. We have a good example even now in the world, all you have to do is look at places like Afghanistan. What does that country produce? Not anything important (unless you're Hunter Biden) only opium. Yes, they can produce that but that product is like one that at one time will not be consumed and thus will run out of style. People that use it will die off eventually or not be able to afford it, ah, poor unholywood.

Can anyone tell me one product that we can only get from China? I can't think of one. Remember that the US was self sustaining at one time, we could always be that again.

There's a very long list of things that either are only from China or where 90% of the product is from China. Mostly its raw materials or chemicals, not so much finished products. My spouse is in purchasing.

(08-18-2022 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-18-2022 06:43 PM)Todor Wrote:  North Korea has the US spending 100’s of Billions per year to counter them while they are powering their military with wood burning trucks lol. Imagine if Russia and China start ignoring our sanctions. Imagine how much we’d have to spend if they had OIL. We’ll be bankrupt…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqP7FxiFIHE

OMG---we're all gunna die!!!!

Goodness gracious. China and Russia traded with them for years prior to the sanctions. The world didnt come to an end. Heck---here's some good news. Turns out, Ukraine has taught us that the same missiles we would use to blow up a North Korean wood burning truck will also blow up a Super Duper Russian Terminator Truck. The old missiles sitting in S Korea will be just fine.

Our army and the ROK army would overrun North Korea in a matter of weeks. We would just have to make sure not to get too close to the Chinese border. Of course, their artillery would do vast damage to Seoul, before it all got destroyed.

(08-18-2022 05:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The US has the number one economy and the number one military in the world.

True and true. But if we can’t even impose our will on Iraq or Afghanistan after ~19 years, what good is it to have the biggest military? If many of our largest cities are unlivable and dangerous, what good is it to have the biggest economy?

Quote:I like how we are handling Ukraine.

It could be worse. But the US money needs to stop now.

Quote:I wish we could sit out a Taiwan war as well---but with the entire high end chip industry situated in Taiwan----I dont think we can get away with sitting on the sidelines for that one. The good news is its mostly going to be a naval war---so it wont be the kind of quagmire that developed in Iraq and Ukraine. My guess is we would probably fight at a great distance, use blockade tactics, and strike using long range fires directed only at naval vessels and shipping. I dont think it would last more than a few months because it would become clear very quickly that Taiwan isnt going to be captured and the longer it goes on---the more everyone loses.

I don’t know how to project exactly when PRC will make its move on Taiwan, although the temptation to do *something* while Biden is still in office must be overwhelming. But when/if the shooting starts, I really do fear that the situation could go nuclear. I don’t believe that America is in any way prepared for that.