For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

With the PAC 10 losing five members they would add the best five remaining from the MWC. Most likely San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Colorado State and New Mexico.

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

Substitute Memphis for Boise and shuffle a bit and I can live with that.

(08-16-2022 10:53 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

Substitute Memphis for Boise and shuffle a bit and I can live with that.

Then...move Baylor to the Central Division and Texas Tech to the west and Memphis to the east.

PAC 5 would most likely add, San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise state, UNLV, and Colorado State...if Boise State goes to the nBig 18, then New Mexico would go to PAC 10. I could see the nBig 18 add two of Memphis, SMU and Boise State.

(08-16-2022 10:53 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

Substitute Memphis for Boise and shuffle a bit and I can live with that.

Why would you pass on Washington, Oregon, Stanford, and Cal, for Boise St., and WSU.

(08-16-2022 11:00 AM)panite Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:53 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

Substitute Memphis for Boise and shuffle a bit and I can live with that.

Why would you pass on Washington, Oregon, Stanford, and Cal, for Boise St., and WSU.

I think he is assuming they won't come.

(08-16-2022 11:00 AM)panite Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:53 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

Substitute Memphis for Boise and shuffle a bit and I can live with that.

Why would you pass on Washington, Oregon, Stanford, and Cal, for Boise St., and WSU.

I wouldn't if Oregon and/or Washington were to come. Stanford and Cal are not good fits.

Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Washington State over Colorado.....?

(08-16-2022 11:03 AM)Huan Wrote:  Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Going bigger is certainly an option. What other real strategies are their to stay competitive with the Godzillas?

With pods they are forced to add another eastern team. I don't think that is warranted if 4 corners all become available. If they are looking at 18, SDSU+ Memphis makes sense, setting up a 5+4/4/4. Wazzou and OSU in MWC, although that leaves them with 13 schools minus SDSU. But I don't see the Big 12 going to 18. Fox won't pay for it unless the last two teams are coming in a 1/3 or 50%.

(08-16-2022 11:29 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:03 AM)Huan Wrote:  Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Going bigger is certainly an option. What other real strategies are their to stay competitive with the Godzillas?

The big12 needs to minimize financial disparity with the SEC and B1G. Going for numerical superiority won’t do that as there just aren’t any available program to do so with. An Arizona and Colorado would increase value whereas a second Arizona and Utah wouldn’t by much.
While going bigger is an option it might be dilutive and thus there is a limit. Imo the big12 should only take 2 in the west and stay at 14: 8 central and 3 each west and east, until better options opens east.

(08-16-2022 11:52 AM)Huan Wrote:  The big12 needs to minimize financial disparity with the SEC and B1G. Going for numerical superiority won’t do that as there just aren’t any available program to do so with. An Arizona and Colorado would increase value whereas a second Arizona and Utah wouldn’t by much.
While going bigger is an option it might be dilutive and thus there is a limit. Imo the big12 should only take 2 in the west and stay at 14: 8 central and 3 each west and east, until better options opens east.

Does anyone really believe that Utah or ASU aren't more valuable than the majority of Big 12 programs? WVU in their current state of affairs? Check. UC? Probably edged out, but recency bias gives them clout. ISU/KSU? Check. TTech? Check.

That's like half the Big 12. I really don't understand where this 50 million figure is coming from. Not even UCF/Houston/OSU/Baylor are worth that much. If networks want to overbid then more power to them. But I'm just not seeing this 10 million dollar difference (or higher) over the PAC that 365 and other pundits are pushing.

If they get that kind of money from Fox/ESPN, good for them. Maybe Fox is desperate for more early window content. I still don't know how the B1G is making potentially 1.5 billion when CBS/NBC are footing just half the bill.

None of the 4 corners will be dilutive to the Big 12. It's going passed 16 where it becomes a problem. They have to bring in additional schools at reduced shares, and they should be able to do that. 18 is better for the wider geography.

(08-16-2022 11:52 AM)Huan Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:29 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:03 AM)Huan Wrote:  Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Going bigger is certainly an option. What other real strategies are their to stay competitive with the Godzillas?

The big12 needs to minimize financial disparity with the SEC and B1G. Going for numerical superiority won’t do that as there just aren’t any available program to do so with. An Arizona and Colorado would increase value whereas a second Arizona and Utah wouldn’t by much.
While going bigger is an option it might be dilutive and thus there is a limit. Imo the big12 should only take 2 in the west and stay at 14: 8 central and 3 each west and east, until better options opens east.

I understand what you are saying. But growing your brand and continue with the energy this brings. Having three divisions has the Big 12 where they can add teams if the ACC gets weaker and adding western teams dries up the PAC 10's options. The Big 12 can have games on at every time slot and with some interesting matchups. I don't think the BIG 12 will poach Washington or Oregon and Stanford and Cal aren't good fits. Teams of interest should be Memphis, SMU, the four corner schools, San Diego State and Boise State has created a following beyond Idaho with their successes. The possible matchups of Utah/BYU, Boise State/BYU, SMU/TCU. Arizona state has an incentive to get better again. As a basketball conference, no conference would have this many quaility teams and baseball should be solid.

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

With the PAC 10 losing five members they would add the best five remaining from the MWC. Most likely San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Colorado State and New Mexico.

Ok, so for the PAC, there's really mainly 2 options.

Either:

a.) WA et al join another conference and the PAC is toast (or is a shell inviting MWC teams)
or b.) WA et al stay in the PAC (and at most the B10 takes stanford plus 1-3 others, but not WA or OR), and PAC invites a few to get back to 10 or 12.

This thread seems to be talking about a PAC to Big12 merge.

There are currently 10 in the PAC right now. Every pundit out there suggests Stanford is the next B10 invite. And if Stanford goes, the rest might then accept being in a conference with BYU and Baylor (religious schools). Cal is also a maybe along those lines, but we'll just pretend on that count. If unhappy, Cal could always go to the WCC and indy in football to the MWC.

And there are those who suggest WA state and OR state to MWC. But might as well bring them along, since they are WA and OR rivals.

The most common suggested invites to the PAC (and B12) are SDSU and BSU. The most common invites suggested for the B12 are USF and SMU, and maybe Memphis.

There's also talk of the eastern schools (Cin, WV, and UCF) going to ACC.

So with all that in mind, let's look at some options:

Take everyone except Stanford - 26 schools:

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Boise State
BYU
California
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Memphis
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Oregon State
San Diego State
SMU
South Florida
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
Washington
Washington State
West Virginia

Same list but east schools go to ACC (Cin, WV, USF, UCF, Memphis): 21

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Boise State
BYU
California
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Oregon State
San Diego State
SMU
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
Washington
Washington State

Then imagine B10 likely takes one more school besides Stanford. Could be Kansas or any 1 former PAC school (except WA). - 20 schools.

And this 20 school "best of the rest" conference easily survives/thrives. Even if B10 eventually takes 2 more, or if Cal does the WCC/MWC split.

(08-16-2022 12:12 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:52 AM)Huan Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:29 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:03 AM)Huan Wrote:  Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Going bigger is certainly an option. What other real strategies are their to stay competitive with the Godzillas?

The big12 needs to minimize financial disparity with the SEC and B1G. Going for numerical superiority won’t do that as there just aren’t any available program to do so with. An Arizona and Colorado would increase value whereas a second Arizona and Utah wouldn’t by much.
While going bigger is an option it might be dilutive and thus there is a limit. Imo the big12 should only take 2 in the west and stay at 14: 8 central and 3 each west and east, until better options opens east.

I understand what you are saying. But growing your brand and continue with the energy this brings. Having three divisions has the Big 12 where they can add teams if the ACC gets weaker and adding western teams dries up the PAC 10's options. The Big 12 can have games on at every time slot and with some interesting matchups. I don't think the BIG 12 will poach Washington or Oregon and Stanford and Cal aren't good fits. Teams of interest should be Memphis, SMU, the four corner schools, San Diego State and Boise State has created a following beyond Idaho with their successes. The possible matchups of Utah/BYU, Boise State/BYU, SMU/TCU. Arizona state has an incentive to get better again. As a basketball conference, no conference would have this many quaility teams and baseball should be solid.

The problem with looking at the ACC is that they have a good core of "haves" with a bunch of "have nots", and not much in between. The P2 will take the "haves", the big 12 won't want the "have nots", so what are they left with? Maybe NC State and VPI (assuming SEC grabs UNC and UVA)? Miami? I would not be setting up my conference for the next 14 years in the hopes of maybe snagging NC State, VPI and Miami in 2036.

(08-16-2022 01:45 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 10:49 AM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  For the Big 12 to get a better media deal would be to explore the western teams.

A good division of the teams would be:

East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State and West Virginia

Central: Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, *SMU, TCU and Texas Tech

West: Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, BYU, Utah and Washington State

This would feature natural or existing rivalries.

SMU/TCU, Arizona/Arizona State, Kansas/Kansas State, Baylor/Houston, BYU/Utah, Boise State/Washington State, Cincinnati/West Virginia, Oklahoma State/Texas Tech,
Boise State/BYU, Cincinnati/Houston, and TCU/Baylor.

Games available from early games to late games.

With the PAC 10 losing five members they would add the best five remaining from the MWC. Most likely San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Colorado State and New Mexico.

Ok, so for the PAC, there's really mainly 2 options.

Either:

a.) WA et al join another conference and the PAC is toast (or is a shell inviting MWC teams)
or b.) WA et al stay in the PAC (and at most the B10 takes stanford plus 1-3 others, but not WA or OR), and PAC invites a few to get back to 10 or 12.

This thread seems to be talking about a PAC to Big12 merge.

There are currently 10 in the PAC right now. Every pundit out there suggests Stanford is the next B10 invite. And if Stanford goes, the rest might then accept being in a conference with BYU and Baylor (religious schools). Cal is also a maybe along those lines, but we'll just pretend on that count. If unhappy, Cal could always go to the WCC and indy in football to the MWC.

And there are those who suggest WA state and OR state to MWC. But might as well bring them along, since they are WA and OR rivals.

The most common suggested invites to the PAC (and B12) are SDSU and BSU. The most common invites suggested for the B12 are USF and SMU, and maybe Memphis.

There's also talk of the eastern schools (Cin, WV, and UCF) going to ACC.

So with all that in mind, let's look at some options:

Take everyone except Stanford - 26 schools:

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Boise State
BYU
California
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Memphis
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Oregon State
San Diego State
SMU
South Florida
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
Washington
Washington State
West Virginia

Same list but east schools go to ACC (Cin, WV, USF, UCF, Memphis): 21

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Boise State
BYU
California
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Oregon
Oregon State
San Diego State
SMU
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
Washington
Washington State

Then imagine B10 likely takes one more school besides Stanford. Could be Kansas or any 1 former PAC school (except WA). - 20 schools.

And this 20 school "best of the rest" conference easily survives/thrives. Even if B10 eventually takes 2 more, or if Cal does the WCC/MWC split.

If I'm BYU and Baylor I'm looking for the most money, regionality, and growth potential. The PAC can't offer the most money, is better for BYU but not Baylor for regionality, and does not offer the same long term growth potential of the big 12 footprint. Plus, even if it were somehow a tossup, wouldn't BYU like to thumb their noses at those Pac snobs who wouldn't give them the time of day for 30 years? I know I would.

(08-16-2022 02:08 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  If I'm BYU and Baylor I'm looking for the most money, regionality, and growth potential. The PAC can't offer the most money, is better for BYU but not Baylor for regionality, and does not offer the same long term growth potential of the big 12 footprint. Plus, even if it were somehow a tossup, wouldn't BYU like to thumb their noses at those Pac snobs who wouldn't give them the time of day for 30 years? I know I would.

BYU is super excited to join the Big 12. I see more rivalry potential with Baylor, TCU, and even Kansas State, West Virginia and UCF than I see with most PAC schools, outside of Utah and perhaps the Arizona schools. With road games from Texas to Florida to Iowa to Ohio, the Big 12 better helps BYU reach its stated goals of exposure and access more than the diminished PAC 10...especially with their losing access to Los Angeles and Southern California.

(08-16-2022 12:12 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:52 AM)Huan Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:29 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 11:03 AM)Huan Wrote:  Imprudent to go bigger than the sec or B1G
I think 16 with 4 pods on a 3:2:2:2 schedule works well: west, east, north, south

Going bigger is certainly an option. What other real strategies are their to stay competitive with the Godzillas?

The big12 needs to minimize financial disparity with the SEC and B1G. Going for numerical superiority won’t do that as there just aren’t any available program to do so with. An Arizona and Colorado would increase value whereas a second Arizona and Utah wouldn’t by much.
While going bigger is an option it might be dilutive and thus there is a limit. Imo the big12 should only take 2 in the west and stay at 14: 8 central and 3 each west and east, until better options opens east.

I understand what you are saying. But growing your brand and continue with the energy this brings. Having three divisions has the Big 12 where they can add teams if the ACC gets weaker and adding western teams dries up the PAC 10's options. The Big 12 can have games on at every time slot and with some interesting matchups. I don't think the BIG 12 will poach Washington or Oregon and Stanford and Cal aren't good fits. Teams of interest should be Memphis, SMU, the four corner schools, San Diego State and Boise State has created a following beyond Idaho with their successes. The possible matchups of Utah/BYU, Boise State/BYU, SMU/TCU. Arizona state has an incentive to get better again. As a basketball conference, no conference would have this many quaility teams and baseball should be solid.

I really think going big is the way to compete.

You have a larger pool to draw your marquee games. That should improve ratings for those games. The larger conference footprint and team count should both increase ratings for those marquee games. Then you have a large swath of time zones and matchups for the lower tiers that should allow you to maximize the profits on those games as well.

Properly managed, I think TV revenue under a big conference arrangement will grow more than the dilution by the number of teams. These teams will be able to draw more viewers than they can today, and those numbers should grow as the conference rivalries develop.

A big conference of mid-tier schools has audience growth potential that the B1G and SEC frankly do not have. The P2 are already as big as they are going to get. The growth potential is with everyone else, and the way to do that is with a big conference.

(08-16-2022 11:00 AM)Claw Wrote:  I think he is assuming they won't come.

So stay in a conference worse than what it is now?

(08-16-2022 02:21 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-16-2022 02:08 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  If I'm BYU and Baylor I'm looking for the most money, regionality, and growth potential. The PAC can't offer the most money, is better for BYU but not Baylor for regionality, and does not offer the same long term growth potential of the big 12 footprint. Plus, even if it were somehow a tossup, wouldn't BYU like to thumb their noses at those Pac snobs who wouldn't give them the time of day for 30 years? I know I would.

BYU is super excited to join the Big 12. I see more rivalry potential with Baylor, TCU, and even Kansas State, West Virginia and UCF than I see with most PAC schools, outside of Utah and perhaps the Arizona schools. With road games from Texas to Florida to Iowa to Ohio, the Big 12 better helps BYU reach its stated goals of exposure and access more than the diminished PAC 10...especially with their losing access to Los Angeles and Southern California.

BYU is in a really good place in the big 12. There are a lot of mormons in the big 12 footprint. Plus, with other religious schools like TCU and Baylor already core members, there will be little to no bias/snobbery against them to be concerned about. As long as the money is there, or even reasonably close, I don't see them leaving.