(08-09-2022 01:25 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 11:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 07:55 AM)b2b Wrote:  What does the typical SMU grad do for a living? They've got a tiny fanbase so this seems crazy to me.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

SMU is basically Dallas's version of Vanderbilt, just not quite as prestigious.

SMU was founded BECAUSE of Vanderbilt...

Vanderbilt was founded as a Methodist University (in this case, the southern Methodist branch, which split from the northern churches over the issue of slavery, not reuniting until the 1960's).

In the early 1900's, Vandy tried to shake the control of the Methodist bishops that sat on the board - after a court battle, the University won, the Methodists withdrew support, and founded SMU.

That's a fun fact I didn't know.

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

Your description of Baylor and Baptists is accurate. It's complicated. That article is from 2005, and Dr. Sloan, the author and then-president, was later forced to resign. He is now the president of Houston Baptist University. Baylor is a well-respected private school (especially in the areas of business and law) with a Christian influence and a loose Baptist affiliation. They require one Bible class and chapel for freshmen. Baptists consider it moderate to liberal, but it's conservative by the standards of most others. Their students are generally more conservative than their faculty and adminstration (it's in Texas). They started a seminary in the 1990's as a reaction to events in the Southern Baptist Convention. Truett Seminary is multi-denominational and is well-endowed. Baylor has well-connected alumni in all of the major cities of Texas, especially Dallas.

(08-09-2022 09:05 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  For many years, there was a archetype for an SMU grad: a white real estate or petroleum executive who worked at the Republic National Bank or Mercantile buildings downtown and lived in the Park Cities. He belonged to a fraternity at SMU and his wife was likely an SMU sorority girl who also grew up in the Park Cities. If you wanted to be a power broker in the Dallas of the 1960's and 1970's, you either went to SMU or Texas (Texas A&M was still a place for farmers and engineers).

SMU grads still hold a lot of generational wealth but they are no longer the power brokers they once were, and the school is not as connected to the city and region as it once was. SMU's endowment is big ($2.1 billion) but has been overtaken by TCU, and Baylor is coming up fast. Some at SMU consider it a peer to Duke and Vanderbilt but outside it, it's more like Tulane. The last 30 years of football haven't helped.

This is on point.

The death penalty hurt more than just their football program.

(08-09-2022 01:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

I have a friend that is a professor at TCU - he is gay, is married, etc and absolutely no issues - husband is treated exactly like any other spouse.

The situation at TCU is similar to Northwestern, where Garrett Seminary, which used to be apart of Northwestern, and is still located on the campus. Northwestern no longer has official ties to the Methodist Church, even though there is a Methodist seminary there.

(08-09-2022 02:08 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

I have a friend that is a professor at TCU - he is gay, is married, etc and absolutely no issues - husband is treated exactly like any other spouse.

The situation at TCU is similar to Northwestern, where Garrett Seminary, which used to be apart of Northwestern, and is still located on the campus. Northwestern no longer has official ties to the Methodist Church, even though there is a Methodist seminary there.

The Methodist church just lost a lawsuit against SMU so I’d say we are no longer close.

(08-09-2022 02:15 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 02:08 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

I have a friend that is a professor at TCU - he is gay, is married, etc and absolutely no issues - husband is treated exactly like any other spouse.

The situation at TCU is similar to Northwestern, where Garrett Seminary, which used to be apart of Northwestern, and is still located on the campus. Northwestern no longer has official ties to the Methodist Church, even though there is a Methodist seminary there.

The Methodist church just lost a lawsuit against SMU so I’d say we are no longer close.

A very similar lawsuit to what Vanderbilt won.

(08-09-2022 01:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  Liberty’s comes more from their massive online program as opposed to donations, which makes most of it unrestricted and can therefore be spent on athletics. Or male prostitutes.

Uhhhh, what?

(08-09-2022 04:14 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  Liberty’s comes more from their massive online program as opposed to donations, which makes most of it unrestricted and can therefore be spent on athletics. Or male prostitutes.

Uhhhh, what?

Liberty has made billions off their on-line programs. Much of it targeted at Veterans (ie Taxpayers have footed the bill).

Since it is from income, it is not restricted on how it can be used, unlike many donations that have specific uses.

So, for athletics, pool boys, etc.

(08-09-2022 12:07 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:05 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  For many years, there was a archetype for an SMU grad: a white real estate or petroleum executive who worked at the Republic National Bank or Mercantile buildings downtown and lived in the Park Cities. He belonged to a fraternity at SMU and his wife was likely an SMU sorority girl who also grew up in the Park Cities. If you wanted to be a power broker in the Dallas of the 1960's and 1970's, you either went to SMU or Texas (Texas A&M was still a place for farmers and engineers).

SMU grads still hold a lot of generational wealth but they are no longer the power brokers they once were, and the school is not as connected to the city and region as it once was. SMU's endowment is big ($2.1 billion) but has been overtaken by TCU, and Baylor is coming up fast. Some at SMU consider it a peer to Duke and Vanderbilt but outside it, it's more like Tulane. The last 30 years of football haven't helped.

Interesting points.

SMU, like Vanderbilt, has a much more diverse student body (in terms of race/ethnicity) than it once did.

Per Data USA

The enrolled student population at Southern Methodist University is 58.4% White, 13.1% Hispanic or Latino, 7.51% Asian, 6.91% Black or African American, 3.65% Two or More Races, 0.194% American Indian or Alaska Native, and 0.0727% Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islanders.

That doesn't mean it still isn't a prep factory.

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:05 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  For many years, there was a archetype for an SMU grad: a white real estate or petroleum executive who worked at the Republic National Bank or Mercantile buildings downtown and lived in the Park Cities. He belonged to a fraternity at SMU and his wife was likely an SMU sorority girl who also grew up in the Park Cities. If you wanted to be a power broker in the Dallas of the 1960's and 1970's, you either went to SMU or Texas (Texas A&M was still a place for farmers and engineers).

SMU grads still hold a lot of generational wealth but they are no longer the power brokers they once were, and the school is not as connected to the city and region as it once was. SMU's endowment is big ($2.1 billion) but has been overtaken by TCU, and Baylor is coming up fast. Some at SMU consider it a peer to Duke and Vanderbilt but outside it, it's more like Tulane. The last 30 years of football haven't helped.

SMU has officially cut the cord with the organized Methodist church. The growth of their endowments will slow because of this.

TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

So SMU has become like Wake Forest. Wake Forest was a former Baptist school, but now is like Rice, in that they are not a denominational school anymore. I still wonder why Baylor hasn't cut their ties, considering how they are as an institution, which is win at all costs.

Liberty does make sense though, and I wouldn't change them at all!!

(08-09-2022 02:15 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 02:08 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

I have a friend that is a professor at TCU - he is gay, is married, etc and absolutely no issues - husband is treated exactly like any other spouse.

The situation at TCU is similar to Northwestern, where Garrett Seminary, which used to be apart of Northwestern, and is still located on the campus. Northwestern no longer has official ties to the Methodist Church, even though there is a Methodist seminary there.

The Methodist church just lost a lawsuit against SMU so I’d say we are no longer close.

...so, is there a name change pending? Honestly wondering, as it would be a bit odd to have 'Methodist' in the title given the two entities have parted ways...

(08-09-2022 07:06 PM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 02:15 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 02:08 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:41 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 01:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  TCU is loosely affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, which has 700K members nationwide. TCU has really stepped up giving among non-alumni and foundations to make up the gap and surpass SMU. They also do a great job selling the school as "the home town team" within Ft. Worth while SMU has never really done that with Dallas.

As for Baylor and the Baptists, it's complicated.

https://www.baylor.edu/alumni/magazine/0...tory=22168

TCU is pretty secular these days. They still recognize their history with the Disciples of Christ, but they do not receive money from them, nor are they governed by them. The Disciples have a seminary on the TCU campus, but it is governed separately. For all intents and purposes, TCU is really simply the University of Fort Worth. It's a non-sectarian private school.

I have a friend that is a professor at TCU - he is gay, is married, etc and absolutely no issues - husband is treated exactly like any other spouse.

The situation at TCU is similar to Northwestern, where Garrett Seminary, which used to be apart of Northwestern, and is still located on the campus. Northwestern no longer has official ties to the Methodist Church, even though there is a Methodist seminary there.

The Methodist church just lost a lawsuit against SMU so I’d say we are no longer close.

...so, is there a name change pending? Honestly wondering, as it would be a bit odd to have 'Methodist' in the title given the two entities have parted ways...

Hence we are requesting to be known as SMU now, similar to TCU

(08-09-2022 07:08 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 07:06 PM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...so, is there a name change pending? Honestly wondering, as it would be a bit odd to have 'Methodist' in the title given the two entities have parted ways...

Hence we are requesting to be known as SMU now, similar to TCU

got it... as a UAB fan I can relate (different situation, same desired results regarding our 'true name'... )

(08-09-2022 07:06 PM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...so, is there a name change pending? Honestly wondering, as it would be a bit odd to have 'Methodist' in the title given the two entities have parted ways...

Unlikely. Marist isn't Catholic anymore and no one at the Marist Brothers is asking for them to change the name.

(08-09-2022 07:25 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 07:06 PM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...so, is there a name change pending? Honestly wondering, as it would be a bit odd to have 'Methodist' in the title given the two entities have parted ways...

Unlikely. Marist isn't Catholic anymore and no one at the Marist Brothers is asking for them to change the name.

...yep I would think changing the name of any institution would be a pretty laborious task, which overall wouldn't fly with most prominent alums... at best, the use of just 'SMU' and not the 'full name' would be apropos, as Pony94 noted...

I remember I worked for a professional consulting firm which had the names of three guys that started it as its title - when one of the dudes left, they bumped up someone to fill that slot and changed the title using the NEW name... when ANOTHER one of the 'principals' left, they just decided to make the company name the 'acronym' of the three names (including the last dude who left) and be done. General moral of the (rather boring) story - don't use proper names in your biz title...

It’s always been interesting to me to watch the evolution of schools and their connections to founding religions. There are a lot of interesting dynamics at play on all sides.

Liberty had built quite a bit of wealth in a very short amount of time compared to schools that are 150-200 years old. Liberty was simply a tiny Bible college not that long ago who was providing distance education by sending out materials and VHS tapes in the mail. They started distance Ed because people wanted to study at Liberty. They didn’t simply jump on the internet bandwagon, or even get in early for that matter. Massive amounts of people want a Liberty education, and these are all people for whom thousands of other choices are just to a click away.

(08-09-2022 05:25 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 12:12 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 09:05 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  For many years, there was a archetype for an SMU grad: a white real estate or petroleum executive who worked at the Republic National Bank or Mercantile buildings downtown and lived in the Park Cities. He belonged to a fraternity at SMU and his wife was likely an SMU sorority girl who also grew up in the Park Cities. If you wanted to be a power broker in the Dallas of the 1960's and 1970's, you either went to SMU or Texas (Texas A&M was still a place for farmers and engineers).

SMU grads still hold a lot of generational wealth but they are no longer the power brokers they once were, and the school is not as connected to the city and region as it once was. SMU's endowment is big ($2.1 billion) but has been overtaken by TCU, and Baylor is coming up fast. Some at SMU consider it a peer to Duke and Vanderbilt but outside it, it's more like Tulane. The last 30 years of football haven't helped.

SMU has officially cut the cord with the organized Methodist church. The growth of their endowments will slow because of this.

TCU, Baylor, and BYU continue to be strongly tied to their churches. Their endowments will continue to grow accordingly. Liberty has a 1.6 billion endowment.

Many religious schools grow their endowments precisely because they are religious schools.

So SMU has become like Wake Forest. Wake Forest was a former Baptist school, but now is like Rice, in that they are not a denominational school anymore. I still wonder why Baylor hasn't cut their ties, considering how they are as an institution, which is win at all costs.

Liberty does make sense though, and I wouldn't change them at all!!

Not at all?

(08-09-2022 10:02 PM)Todor Wrote:  It’s always been interesting to me to watch the evolution of schools and their connections to founding religions. There are a lot of interesting dynamics at play on all sides.

Liberty had built quite a bit of wealth in a very short amount of time compared to schools that are 150-200 years old. Liberty was simply a tiny Bible college not that long ago who was providing distance education by sending out materials and VHS tapes in the mail. They started distance Ed because people wanted to study at Liberty. They didn’t simply jump on the internet bandwagon, or even get in early for that matter. Massive amounts of people want a Liberty education, and these are all people for whom thousands of other choices are just to a click away.

It helps that Liberty is an affordable option for a lot of people compared to other online options.

(08-09-2022 10:02 PM)Todor Wrote:  It’s always been interesting to me to watch the evolution of schools and their connections to founding religions. There are a lot of interesting dynamics at play on all sides.

Same. It's really interesting.

(08-09-2022 10:14 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 10:02 PM)Todor Wrote:  It’s always been interesting to me to watch the evolution of schools and their connections to founding religions. There are a lot of interesting dynamics at play on all sides.

Liberty had built quite a bit of wealth in a very short amount of time compared to schools that are 150-200 years old. Liberty was simply a tiny Bible college not that long ago who was providing distance education by sending out materials and VHS tapes in the mail. They started distance Ed because people wanted to study at Liberty. They didn’t simply jump on the internet bandwagon, or even get in early for that matter. Massive amounts of people want a Liberty education, and these are all people for whom thousands of other choices are just to a click away.

It helps that Liberty is an affordable option for a lot of people compared to other online options.

It does help, but nobody would choose Liberty if price was their main consideration. There are hundreds of schools that are cheaper.