(07-09-2022 07:01 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I’m sure you’ve all had more than your fill of my opinions on the subject, so I’ll instead offer up selected segments from a WSJ editorial from this morning:

Quote:Judges are unlikely to throw out legitimate votes after the fact.

***

If Mr. Trump was so opposed to drop boxes, why didn’t he bring a claim earlier in 2020, when the WEC memos were issued?

Former Attorney General Bill Barr told a podcast recently that Mr. Trump was duly warned to get solid lawyers working to defend business-as-usual voting processes.

***

“He ignored that advice…. So a lot of these, bending of the playing field, were his own fault.”

Link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/wisconsin-d...opin_pos_1

Trump is not an attorney nor a politician and that was his demise. But, it may have only made a slight difference in the outcome. This was a well coordinated well funded scheme with all the groundwork laid out probably a year in advance. What better cover for your corrupt scheme than a pandemic. It’s to dangerous to vote in person just mail in your ballot. The bigger joke was the drop boxes. This screams fraud. What an opportunity to dig through the boxes and post 60,000 votes for Biden and 2 for Trump. This election was the BIG LIE. This election was a rigged carnival game and Trump didn’t have enough Allies. At this point it’s best to pack it up chalk it up to experience and stuff it into the attic.

There’s an old saying what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Hopefully we all became more aware and stronger.

Failing doesn’t make you a failure only giving up does that.

Anyone that thinks for a second Biden would be POTUS now without the election changes surrounding COVID is not thinking clearly. To their credit... Dems took advantage of changes to the system that favored them. Was it cheating? Thats debatable..but....It was surely not a fair election due to those changes and this ruling verifies it.

(07-09-2022 08:42 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Anyone that thinks for a second Biden would be POTUS now without the election changes surrounding COVID is not thinking clearly. To their credit... Dems took advantage of changes to the system that favored them. Was it cheating? Thats debatable..but....It was surely not a fair election due to those changes and this ruling verifies it.

For the most part, it was unconstitutional. This is what the Wisconsin supreme court said. We also know that in PA their supreme court actually stepped in and allowed things not allowed by law, acting like legislatures on something the us constitution only grants the state legislature. This is something the US supreme court will be reviewing.

In Georgia they cant provide chain of custody documentation as required by law.

So, we know they broke the law. We know they cheated, because they cant prove they cannot. And they do, by law, have to PROVE they didnt by providing the chain of custody documentation. If something as easy as that cant be provided, its because noone wanted their names on that document when a few hundred thousand fake ballots came rolling in.

(07-08-2022 10:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

Indeed.

His minor problem was/is that he is a moral dilemma for a significant amount of the GOP voting base. Let’s face it though, the man was a lifelong Democrat, but supported whichever party would best serve his business needs. He was/is not a career politician, and for THAT reason not “polished” in the way the American public has become accustomed to seeing in politicians.

There is no doubt at this point the man is intelligent, it’s mostly just his ways and means that turned a lot of people off to him. The establishment saw him as dangerous to their power over the American public because he had no issue exposing how the public has been taken advantage of.

The fact that Democrat politicians and their voters didn’t hate the man, but widely admired him before he jumped into politics is one of the most amusing phenomenon of the 21st century of American politics.


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I think most of what you wrote is spot on. His ways and means, driven by his extreme ego (and I think Obama, say, had just as big of one, but didn't wear it on his sleeve to quite the same extent) and his complete lack of political experience and ability to judge people ultimately led to his loss, despite the the rampant cheating in 2020. And those were flaws that were obvious paying attention to the man from the books in the 80s to the failed businesses (I'm not going to buy a steak from a man who likes his well done, nor will I buy a tie from one who doesn't know how to wear one) to his time on The Apprentice.

Where I'll disagree is that I think an awful lot of Dems hated him for the birther crap. To many of them, 0bam0 was the king amongst kings on the black Mount Rushmore, and to question his citizenship was akin to questioning the divinity of Jesus from the other side. That's the only thing I can come up with to explain the utter, visceral hatred of the man. It's not the womanizing (Clinton, JFK), unsavory business dealings (Clintons, Biden) or locker room talk/behavior (LBJ pulling out his c**k in front of reporters, Biden swimming naked in front of female SS agents).

And I'll say this as someone who would enthusiastically vote for the man again if nominated (although I desperately hope for an alternative), but the birther nonsense is the only time I ever felt like Trump was giving a dog whistle to the racist parts of both parties. I never cared where Barry was born, he was a US citizen, qualified to be president due to the fact that his mother was a US citizen. Same deal as McCain. My problem with Barry is that he was raised completely abroad (and I include Hawaii in the abroad category; they share very little in common with the rest of us) and that he was, of course, a communist sympathizer like many on today's left.

I definitely agree with the majority and basis of your opinion of the birthed conspiracy as it related to Obama. I am still of the opinion that was all created by the Hillary campaign in 2008 to attempt to disparage Obama. It didn’t work for her either, then Trump went with it full bore for some reason, and yes… I think that was a poor strategy choice for the same reasons you mentioned.

Below is an article from the Washington Times fact checking the media who still likes to pin that entire farce on Trump (though he certainly didn’t help himself by using it so much).

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/...=TWT+-+DSA

This shows the roots of this story go back to Hillary and Mark Penn, her chief strategist in 2007.


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(07-09-2022 08:05 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'm not sure exactly Trump should've done differently. He took this issue to various courts and fought to the bitter end. I can be critical of Trump for many things, but being a 'do-nothing-quitter' wasn't one of them.

62 lawsuits, many of which were dismissed.

Some were filed before the election and courts said there haven't been damages yet. Others were filed after and courts said you should've filed before.

Those scenarios don't describe all, but they do describe some.

I'm sure several of us on this board will remember discussing these exact issues.

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

I don't disagree there

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(07-08-2022 11:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  Well you can't prove those went to Biden. They got dumped in the general pool.

I don't like the headline. It's a misdirection. It was specifically Milwaukee which tipped the election in Wisconsin and was the center for the late night shift there, just like Philadelphia, and worst of all 2 counties within Atlanta which changed the Senate to boot. People in the press made it seem like 5 states had to collude to throw the election. Don't you think the public would have raised an eyebrow and backed investigations if they had been made aware it was actually 1 county in Arizona, 2 counties in Georgia, and corrupt precincts in Milwaukee and Philadelphia? Pushing the damned "Battleground States" narrative was a set up to lend legitimacy to what was actually a very specific plan to steal and the permission of BS reasons to halt counting until in each state all other votes had been counted was the damn proof! Corparitists who could not stand another Brexit style refusal of their agenda paid for hackable machines, and ballot harvesting and used the media they own to steal our election and not in a broad way as advertised but in a strategy much more specific which had it been accurately told, the public would have been much more enraged and the culprits easily identified. Only an Obama appointed DOJ and HSA and FBI heads were needed to refuse to investigate.

This was never about 5 Battleground States but far left minority run voting precincts where massive fraud could be covered by shouts of racism if need be. And the press isn't about to mention that either!

(07-09-2022 10:31 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

I don't disagree there

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which is the entire point of what many have pointed out over the years once DJT announced as a pub...

@blewMinds

what's even more sadistically satiating is the smarmy smarties simply don't know who their political savior is on any pulpit...

#leavesAndForest=deadwood

(07-08-2022 08:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  His minor problem was/is that he is a moral dilemma for a significant amount of the GOP voting base.

I wouldn't say a moral dilemma as much as a power dilemma. The RINO establishment republicans believe it is their God-given right to control their party, and Donald Trump challenged that on every level. They don't really have a message, so it is all about keeping their old boy network going. And Donald Trump was not of or from that network.

What Trump did was take on some issues. That's what republicans need to do.

The Republican Party was the target of a hostile takeover in 2016 and I hope it continues no matter who is in charge.

Most of us have a minute or two to visit this place on a weekend.
One place I don’t go on the weekend is work if I can help it.
Good Monday morning to you Tom.

(07-09-2022 03:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  His minor problem was/is that he is a moral dilemma for a significant amount of the GOP voting base.

I wouldn't say a moral dilemma as much as a power dilemma. The RINO establishment republicans believe it is their God-given right to control their party, and Donald Trump challenged that on every level. They don't really have a message, so it is all about keeping their old boy network going. And Donald Trump was not of or from that network.

What Trump did was take on some issues. That's what republicans need to do.

He’s a power dilemma for the establishment politicians. He’s a moral dilemma for a large portion of the GOP voting base.


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(07-08-2022 06:07 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 04:26 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 04:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 02:15 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  You still dont get it...

what you think is an ideal republican and your idols are what got us to this point. Not President Trump. They rolled over and took it up the ass and they did it because they are just as big of crooks as the swamp on the other side.

But he's a really bad man because he said mean things. You are just as bad as Tommie and those far left progressive posters. Your kind is the real reason we are in this mess. The lack of ability to understand actions and doing the correct thing for this country are more important than saying mean things.

when you pay that $4.50 to $5.00 a gallon for gas and see your 401k -25%. People like You and your idols played the largest role in that

Well Trump sat on his tail and let the Democrats set up the steal. The Democrats were hiring every election lawyer they could find and the Republicans under Trump did nothing. Now maybe many of us couldn't fathom how far the Democrats would go, but Trump was asleep at the switch.

State run elections are not run by the Federal Government. They are run by the states. What was he supposed to do? He isn't a dictator. He told everyone that would listen, the Democrats were going to cheat.

The DNC coordinated all these lawsuits. Trump did nothing.

please explain what DJT should have done differently ... be specific...

Hire all the Republican election lawyers and fight all these lawsuits. The GA AG just gave in to violating all safety protocols on the Georgia election and didn't even take it to court. The chief lieutenant of the Georgia AG is a diehard leftist and the AG turned out to be a never Trumper. Trump just did not have good people around him to be alert to all these things. Look at this thread. The WI Supreme Court is acting 20 months later. Trump should have been on top of this from the start.

(07-08-2022 09:54 PM)Claw Wrote:  What's all this Trump did nothing baloney?

He tried to get state legislatures to not certify their elections. He tried to get the state legislatures to choose different electors. He tried to get Pence to stop the electoral college until this was addressed.

Don't give the Trump didn't do anything crap. If he hadn't we wouldn't be having the Jan 6 hearings.

He did a lot, and it came close enough to working that it rattled the cages of the entire D.C. establishment.

And ALL of that is after the fact when it was too late.

(07-09-2022 03:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:46 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  His minor problem was/is that he is a moral dilemma for a significant amount of the GOP voting base.

I wouldn't say a moral dilemma as much as a power dilemma. The RINO establishment republicans believe it is their God-given right to control their party, and Donald Trump challenged that on every level. They don't really have a message, so it is all about keeping their old boy network going. And Donald Trump was not of or from that network.

What Trump did was take on some issues. That's what republicans need to do.

Fortunately, they have been mostly marginalized.

There was a propriety issue for some. DJT IS a jerk. Some of them just couldn't stomach that. He showed a lot of bad judgement. I soured on him after he bad mouthed Barbara Bush. I didn't come back to voting for him until the leftist brownshirts started disrupting rallies and getting people fired for saying "build the wall" or claiming that "Trump 2016" was racist.

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

Did the Leftists orchestrate the pandemic thing in order implement the fix and install Biden as President of the United States? Absolutely! Could they have gotten away with it without the RINO's being complicit in the fix? Absolutely not! The RINO's did as much if not more to undermine Trump throughout his Presidency than the Leftists. Will the RINO's treat a guy like DeSantis any better?

(07-09-2022 10:32 PM)JUSTGOPLAY Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

Did the Leftists orchestrate the pandemic thing in order implement the fix and install Biden as President of the United States? Absolutely! Could they have gotten away with it without the RINO's being complicit in the fix? Absolutely not! The RINO's did as much if not more to undermine Trump throughout his Presidency than the Leftists. Will the RINO's treat a guy like DeSantis any better?

This is why those in the intelligence community used to shoot moles!

(07-09-2022 10:32 PM)JUSTGOPLAY Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 08:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump's biggest problem was that too many establishment republicans would prefer to have Joe Biden as president than Donald Trump as head of the republican party.

Did the Leftists orchestrate the pandemic thing in order implement the fix and install Biden as President of the United States? Absolutely!

—> Agree. This was political from the start.

Could they have gotten away with it without the RINO's being complicit in the fix? Absolutely not! The RINO's did as much if not more to undermine Trump throughout his Presidency than the Leftists.

—> Not sure that I would define this as a “RINO” trait. Way too many amongst us failed to challenge this scam, including most notably Donald Trump. Understandable at the start, but shameful as the lockdowns extended on and on, and COVID became the excuse for anything and everything. If this were only a RINO phenomenon, be aware that you have just labeled the great and infallible Donald Trump as a RINO.

Will the RINO's treat a guy like DeSantis any better?

—> This is categorically and provably incorrect. He DID do better. Under enormous pressure, he pretty much alone refused to lockdown his state. He protected the elderly, of which there are many in Florida, and kept the rest of the state operating.

—> Ron DeSantis is as yet unproven in some areas. But COVID and the ability to stand up to pressure is not one of those concerns. He has already shown himself worthy on this topic - - way more so than the Fauci-duped Donald Trump.

(07-09-2022 10:45 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 11:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  Well you can't prove those went to Biden. They got dumped in the general pool.

I don't like the headline. It's a misdirection. It was specifically Milwaukee which tipped the election in Wisconsin and was the center for the late night shift there, just like Philadelphia, and worst of all 2 counties within Atlanta which changed the Senate to boot. People in the press made it seem like 5 states had to collude to throw the election. Don't you think the public would have raised an eyebrow and backed investigations if they had been made aware it was actually 1 county in Arizona, 2 counties in Georgia, and corrupt precincts in Milwaukee and Philadelphia? Pushing the damned "Battleground States" narrative was a set up to lend legitimacy to what was actually a very specific plan to steal and the permission of BS reasons to halt counting until in each state all other votes had been counted was the damn proof! Corparitists who could not stand another Brexit style refusal of their agenda paid for hackable machines, and ballot harvesting and used the media they own to steal our election and not in a broad way as advertised but in a strategy much more specific which had it been accurately told, the public would have been much more enraged and the culprits easily identified. Only an Obama appointed DOJ and HSA and FBI heads were needed to refuse to investigate.

This was never about 5 Battleground States but far left minority run voting precincts where massive fraud could be covered by shouts of racism if need be. And the press isn't about to mention that either!

To see how easy it is for a single person to pull this off, look at Brenda Snipes in Broward County FLorida. (Who was appointed by Jeb! by the way) She probably pulled many candidates over the finish line over the years. The last was Nikki Fried in the state's 2018 Agriculture race. Right before she resigned, she had to testify that she could not locate 2000 ballots in that race. A race that statewide was "won" by Fried by only 6000 votes. Fried was the only democrat to win statewide election that year. She very nearly pulled Gillum into the lead for governor until her counting operation got shut down by a judge.

While the election was not "fair"...DJT still has only himself to blame for losing to Biden. He simply never figured out how to act like a President. He tried to run the country like he did his company..only to find he could not run roughshod over entrenched bureaucrats. With just the bare minimum level of decorum and tact..he would still be POTUS. He did everything he could for 4 years to destroy support among independents and blue dog Democrats with his childish behavior.