(06-15-2022 08:53 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: $4.41 at my Costco in Toledo, OH today filling up on the way in. Down from a high of $4.81 a couple of weeks ago.
(06-15-2022 08:53 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: $4.41 at my Costco in Toledo, OH today filling up on the way in. Down from a high of $4.81 a couple of weeks ago.
I hope this is a sign of a shift. Oil companies got burned by COVID. In may of 2020, Oil was -$40.00 a barrel because they were pumping more than they could sell and had to pay to store it. (You read that right, negative 40 dollars a barrel in may of 2020) Oil Suppliers have been really cautious about increasing supply, despite demand being through the roof. They are purposefully sitting on land they could drill on and very slowly creeping back up production.
They can do this because people will pay. In fact, despite inflation US consumers are buying more than ever (Across the board, not just gas). We can't force suppliers to pump more oil and suppliers are seeing record profits by keeping supply down and gouging consumers with their prices. From their perspective, why mess with it, particularly when they oversupplied, drove down costs a ton and then had to eat it when demand plummeted in 2020.
(06-15-2022 08:53 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: $4.41 at my Costco in Toledo, OH today filling up on the way in. Down from a high of $4.81 a couple of weeks ago.
I hope this is a sign of a shift. Oil companies got burned by COVID. In may of 2020, Oil was -$40.00 a barrel because they were pumping more than they could sell and had to pay to store it. (You read that right, negative 40 dollars a barrel in may of 2020) Oil Suppliers have been really cautious about increasing supply, despite demand being through the roof. They are purposefully sitting on land they could drill on and very slowly creeping back up production.
They can do this because people will pay. In fact, despite inflation US consumers are buying more than ever (Across the board, not just gas). We can't force suppliers to pump more oil and suppliers are seeing record profits by keeping supply down and gouging consumers with their prices. From their perspective, why mess with it, particularly when they oversupplied, drove down costs a ton and then had to eat it when demand plummeted in 2020.
Exactly...we are past the hit from Covid and any legislative impact on gas prices, this has now become supply-side economics at its finest, and something the oil companies have started to really rake money in hand over fist from. The price of a barrel of oil is less now that it was in March, but gasoline prices are 40% higher than they were in March...that is clearly market manipulation at this point IMO, but I'm not an economist. Hell the price of Oil is roughly the same as it was in 2008 AND from 2011-2014, all while national average prices on gasoline are roughly $2/gallon higher than they were in those same time periods. Given that the price of gasoline has a roughly 72% share of the total impact on CPI increases, it almost looks as if the gasoline companies are the ones now really at fault for increasing inflation, despite my own personal opinions on the current administration.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 01:18 PM by BearcatMan.)
(06-15-2022 08:53 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: $4.41 at my Costco in Toledo, OH today filling up on the way in. Down from a high of $4.81 a couple of weeks ago.
I hope this is a sign of a shift. Oil companies got burned by COVID. In may of 2020, Oil was -$40.00 a barrel because they were pumping more than they could sell and had to pay to store it. (You read that right, negative 40 dollars a barrel in may of 2020) Oil Suppliers have been really cautious about increasing supply, despite demand being through the roof. They are purposefully sitting on land they could drill on and very slowly creeping back up production.
They can do this because people will pay. In fact, despite inflation US consumers are buying more than ever (Across the board, not just gas). We can't force suppliers to pump more oil and suppliers are seeing record profits by keeping supply down and gouging consumers with their prices. From their perspective, why mess with it, particularly when they oversupplied, drove down costs a ton and then had to eat it when demand plummeted in 2020.
Problem is that since they got burnt before they are leery of expanding production and get hit with another lockdown or the end of the war in Ukraine which would release Russian oil back into market dropping prices.
I remember somewhere that they needed oil at $59 per barrel or more to make profits, so maybe now they’ll move but it will take time for that to flow into market.
(06-15-2022 08:53 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: $4.41 at my Costco in Toledo, OH today filling up on the way in. Down from a high of $4.81 a couple of weeks ago.
I hope this is a sign of a shift. Oil companies got burned by COVID. In may of 2020, Oil was -$40.00 a barrel because they were pumping more than they could sell and had to pay to store it. (You read that right, negative 40 dollars a barrel in may of 2020) Oil Suppliers have been really cautious about increasing supply, despite demand being through the roof. They are purposefully sitting on land they could drill on and very slowly creeping back up production.
They can do this because people will pay. In fact, despite inflation US consumers are buying more than ever (Across the board, not just gas). We can't force suppliers to pump more oil and suppliers are seeing record profits by keeping supply down and gouging consumers with their prices. From their perspective, why mess with it, particularly when they oversupplied, drove down costs a ton and then had to eat it when demand plummeted in 2020.
Problem is that since they got burnt before they are leery of expanding production and get hit with another lockdown or the end of the war in Ukraine which would release Russian oil back into market dropping prices.
I remember somewhere that they needed oil at $59 per barrel or more to make profits, so maybe now they’ll move but it will take time for that to flow into market.
No doubt. We're not going to see gas prices hit the COVID driven, bottom barrel prices we had in 2020. I think they're going to be much more cautious for a long time, meaning even the lower prices we had from basically 2012 through 2019 largely driven by technology increasing supply and lowering cost of production are probably a long way away.
06-15-2022 01:55 PM
BearcatMan
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I love the dummies who buy a Tesla or Rivian and think we're the idiots for buying a gas vehicle for half the price with the same creature comforts and utility and a gas vs. electricity break-even point of like 20 years.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 01:57 PM by BearcatMan.)
I love the dummies who buy a Tesla or Rivian and think we're the idiots for buying a gas vehicle for half the price with the same creature comforts and utility and a gas vs. electricity break-even point of like 20 years.
I was spending over $400 a month back in 2014 commuting in a Ford Focus that got 40 mpg. I commute 70 miles to work each way highway driving. Bought a Tesla model S in 2014 and traded it in for a new model S in 2018. I love the car. I am grandfathered into free supercharging and my work has a charger so I essentially do not even have to pay for electricity to charge it.
Everyone is different. If I was driving the ford focus with current gas prices, I would be paying over $1000 a month in gas. So for me, the break even point actually was the day I drove the tesla off the lot, not in 20 years.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 02:27 PM by otown.)
I love the dummies who buy a Tesla or Rivian and think we're the idiots for buying a gas vehicle for half the price with the same creature comforts and utility and a gas vs. electricity break-even point of like 20 years.
I was spending over $400 a month back in 2014 commuting in a Ford Focus that got 40 mpg. I commute 70 miles to work each way highway driving. Bought a Tesla model S in 2014 and traded it in for a new model S in 2018. I love the car. I am grandfathered into free supercharging and my work has a charger so I essentially do not even have to pay for electricity to charge it.
Everyone is different. If I was driving the ford focus with current gas prices, I would be paying over $1000 a month in gas. So for me, the break even point actually was the day I drove the tesla off the lot, not in 20 years.
A 70 mile commute is ludicrous, but that's just me.
So using your example for a person looking at new cars (rather than with a trade-in and a grandfathered sweetheart deal), a Ford Focus runs in the mid $20k range new, and a new Model S is running $110,000 (minus $7,000 tax credit). In order to make up that difference with free charging, you're looking at needing to use that Model S for 7 years or so before you see a savings, and that is without any maintenance, the much higher insurance charges, etc. to factor in. That's why I made the comment...and if you actually have to pay for charging like any new switch-over, you're looking at a break even of a decade at least vs. a car running at a $50,000 retail with comparable amenities. Considering the life of most batteries in cars being around 7-10 years nowadays if you're lucky, you're going to be chasing your tail...even moreso with 37,000 miles on the odo every year just from your commute. The Model 3 has a much better payoff calendar, but even then, you're looking at 4-5 years to see any savings at all.
Like you said, everyone is different about money. I have paid for my last two vehicles in cash, so I am absolutely not the target demo for their "you save money by switching" marketing piece.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 02:45 PM by BearcatMan.)
