"Thank you sir, may I have another!" - Walt

(06-02-2022 03:19 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've watched Rice athletics, mostly from up close and personal, fall ever further from the 1960s until today. With precious few exceptions, the main one obviously being Wayne Graham, the program has simply gotten consistently worse from decade to decade for 60 years. I'm worn out from watching it. Call me when things turn around.

Why don't you do us all a favor and wait until you get the call before posting the exact same negative post over and over and over again.

You're the only one it bothers

Ah yes of course. The past three football seasons of 3-9, 2-3, and 4-8 are so much worse than

1. The 6 straight seasons with 3 or fewer wins from 1974-1979
2. The 5 total wins from 1982-1985 and 4 wins from 1987-89
3. The 0 win seasons from 1968, 1982, 1988.

And before the 3-9 from 2019, we were 3-9 (2016), 1-11 (2017) and 2-11 (2018).

This is all under Karlgaard’s watch.

I hope this post ages badly and Bloomgren finishes 7-5 or better in 2022. But I am seeing the early predictions for Rice in 2022 at more like 4-8 again.

(06-02-2022 03:36 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:19 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've watched Rice athletics, mostly from up close and personal, fall ever further from the 1960s until today. With precious few exceptions, the main one obviously being Wayne Graham, the program has simply gotten consistently worse from decade to decade for 60 years. I'm worn out from watching it. Call me when things turn around.

Why don't you do us all a favor and wait until you get the call before posting the exact same negative post over and over and over again.

You're the only one it bothers

Ah yes of course. The past three football seasons of 3-9, 2-3, and 4-8 are so much worse than

1. The 6 straight seasons with 3 or fewer wins from 1974-1979
2. The 5 total wins from 1982-1985 and 4 wins from 1987-89
3. The 0 win seasons from 1968, 1982, 1988.

And before the 3-9 from 2019, we were 3-9 (2016), 1-11 (2017) and 2-11 (2018).

This is all under Karlgaard’s watch.

I hope this post ages badly and Bloomgren finishes 7-5 or better in 2022. But I am seeing the early predictions for Rice in 2022 at more like 4-8 again.

The point still stands that the current streak is no worse than the bad streaks Rice has had in the past. And at least we are currently improving record wise. It just looks like we're getting worse because the losses we had were very lopsided. Either way I can't understand why this would be the year that truly made someone give up on Rice athletics.

I'm seeing predictions worse than 4-8. But how much attention is anyone really paying to Rice or Cusa? Analysts will just see Rice and mark it as a loss. Nobody is going to pay attention to all the transfers, or how players improved, or the depth of each position for us like they do with P5 teams. Predictions don't mean much when I doubt anyone is looking deeply at this team our our conference opponents.

(06-02-2022 03:48 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  The point still stands that the current streak is no worse than the bad streaks Rice has had in the past.

A) we've invested more in the past decade than perhaps in the 30 years before in total. It's hard to take all this investment and to have (by your description) so little to show for it. Why not just 'save the equipment' or spend the money on cars for the players as opposed to millions on coaching that doesn't make us win meaningfully more than if we'd spent 1/3 the amount??
B) We were losing to teams like A&M, UT et all in front of 30-50,000 fans (or more at THEIR place) with 500-1000 of our students in attendance. Now we're losing to UTSA and USM in front of 12,000 fans with 50-100 of our students in attendance. Sure, we also lost to schools of the caliber of UTSA and USM at times back then as well, but we also occasionally BEAT Texas and A&M et al.
C) Considering the opponents and COVID, I really don't buy this 'improvement in the record' as being indicative of the trajectory of the program. I look at (and always have) the ranking of our teams. I'd rather be 5-6 and ranked #50 because you beat everyone ranked lower than that and only lost to teams ranked higher... than 10-1 and ranked #100 because every team you beat was even worse (so nobody cares).

People would like to see Rice beat a school like Texas... but nobody currently thinks that is even remotely possible.

FTR, I'm not espousing that position... I'm just saying I can't discount it completely

I just read a short piece posted on The Roost about how the new Rice president might be interested in trying to improve athletics. I hope that’s the case.
Like a lot of people who post here, I’ve seen my fair share of under achieving Rice athletics. With the move to the AAC, commitments to improving facilities and the definite improvement we’ve seen in women’s teams, I’m hopeful that we can move into at least the middle of the pack.

Truthfully, I see Rice and a lot of our CUSA and AAC brethren destined for a step down. I think we are on the brink of seeing the top 40-60 teams in the P5 totally separate themselves from everybody else. It’s been coming for a while, but the transfer portal and the NIL situation is accelerating it. And, if I’m honest, it’s taken a lot of the joy out of watching college sports. So, if Rice winds up as a D-II or D-III team in a few years, and not competing against UT or LSU, etc it won’t break my heart at all. It’s getting harder and harder to muster a lot of enthusiasm for teams that turn over 20+% of their personnel from season to season.

We also had 3 CUSA freshmen of the year (golf, men's tennis and swimming - and should have had a 4th in women's basketball). Despite the mess of the transfer portal, we're really not getting decimated by the portal. In fact, we're actually doing quite well in the football transfer portal (if the rankings were updated, we might be closing in on a top-50 class nationally). We have brought in impact transfers in other sports too (soccer most notably). We have a chance to have our first individual NCAA champion in years (decades) at next week's outdoor track meet (although it won't be easy for Grace Forbes).

I really believe if this was our low point, than it's going to get quite a bit better very soon.

(06-02-2022 03:36 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:19 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 08:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I've watched Rice athletics, mostly from up close and personal, fall ever further from the 1960s until today. With precious few exceptions, the main one obviously being Wayne Graham, the program has simply gotten consistently worse from decade to decade for 60 years. I'm worn out from watching it. Call me when things turn around.

Why don't you do us all a favor and wait until you get the call before posting the exact same negative post over and over and over again.

You're the only one it bothers

Ah yes of course. The past three football seasons of 3-9, 2-3, and 4-8 are so much worse than

1. The 6 straight seasons with 3 or fewer wins from 1974-1979
2. The 5 total wins from 1982-1985 and 4 wins from 1987-89
3. The 0 win seasons from 1968, 1982, 1988.

And before the 3-9 from 2019, we were 3-9 (2016), 1-11 (2017) and 2-11 (2018).

This is all under Karlgaard’s watch.

I hope this post ages badly and Bloomgren finishes 7-5 or better in 2022. But I am seeing the early predictions for Rice in 2022 at more like 4-8 again.

We have been through this before w Bailiff, people arguing that going to 7-5, and invited to the Toilet Bowl actually meant something. They argued that the additional practice and exposure meant something. Admiittedly is does to some, but obviously very few, based on the end results. Until we show and and actually compete against decent teams, beating the dregs of college football (usually teams ranked from ~ 90-125) means zip to anyone that counts. Unless Bloomgren changes his approach, that won't happen, and nobody will care

(06-02-2022 08:46 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  I know everyone likes to dump on Pera, but slowly an upward trajectory seems to be there. Football seems to have completely reversed anything positive since the 80's (never have I had a lower care) and nuf said about baseball

I can roll with Pera for the foreseeable future. Easily the best coach of the men's teams right now. Was able to keep a core of good players mostly together in these transfer portal times. Shows a good eye for talent.

Football was a confirmation of the same, sad. Baseball was somewhat disturbing, a big disappointment even with low expectations coming in. Cheito has next year to show significant improvement but Bloomgren shouldn't be brought back unless Rice competes for the conference title.

Women's sports were the highlight, again.

(06-02-2022 04:32 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  I just read a short piece posted on The Roost about how the new Rice president might be interested in trying to improve athletics. I hope that’s the case.
Like a lot of people who post here, I’ve seen my fair share of under achieving Rice athletics. With the move to the AAC, commitments to improving facilities and the definite improvement we’ve seen in women’s teams, I’m hopeful that we can move into at least the middle of the pack.

Truthfully, I see Rice and a lot of our CUSA and AAC brethren destined for a step down. I think we are on the brink of seeing the top 40-60 teams in the P5 totally separate themselves from everybody else. It’s been coming for a while, but the transfer portal and the NIL situation is accelerating it. And, if I’m honest, it’s taken a lot of the joy out of watching college sports. So, if Rice winds up as a D-II or D-III team in a few years, and not competing against UT or LSU, etc it won’t break my heart at all. It’s getting harder and harder to muster a lot of enthusiasm for teams that turn over 20+% of their personnel from season to season.

Good post. I agree.

I expect a lot more from coaches who are finally making good salaries at Rice. The investment is there, the results are not.

(06-02-2022 03:48 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:36 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:19 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Why don't you do us all a favor and wait until you get the call before posting the exact same negative post over and over and over again.

You're the only one it bothers

Ah yes of course. The past three football seasons of 3-9, 2-3, and 4-8 are so much worse than

1. The 6 straight seasons with 3 or fewer wins from 1974-1979
2. The 5 total wins from 1982-1985 and 4 wins from 1987-89
3. The 0 win seasons from 1968, 1982, 1988.

And before the 3-9 from 2019, we were 3-9 (2016), 1-11 (2017) and 2-11 (2018).

This is all under Karlgaard’s watch.

I hope this post ages badly and Bloomgren finishes 7-5 or better in 2022. But I am seeing the early predictions for Rice in 2022 at more like 4-8 again.

The point still stands that the current streak is no worse than the bad streaks Rice has had in the past. And at least we are currently improving record wise. It just looks like we're getting worse because the losses we had were very lopsided. Either way I can't understand why this would be the year that truly made someone give up on Rice athletics.

I'm seeing predictions worse than 4-8. But how much attention is anyone really paying to Rice or Cusa? Analysts will just see Rice and mark it as a loss. Nobody is going to pay attention to all the transfers, or how players improved, or the depth of each position for us like they do with P5 teams. Predictions don't mean much when I doubt anyone is looking deeply at this team our our conference opponents.

My concern is a mindset of “Rice has always played bad football” causes everyone from the athletic director on down to give up and accept 3-9 as the bar. Rice has yet another chance to “start over” in the AAC. I want to see top down commitment to break this vicious cycle. Small example: will we see a Football Coaches Caravan this summer? I would like to attend and respectfully ask Karlgaard and Bloomgren if the long bowl drought is acceptable, what the offense will do differently in 2022, and what the athletic department is doing to get students and alumni into the seats.

Not scheduling a coaches caravan would be a bad sign.

(06-03-2022 07:06 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  I would like to attend and respectfully ask Karlgaard and Bloomgren if the long bowl drought is acceptable, what the offense will do differently in 2022, and what the athletic department is doing to get students and alumni into the seats.

Which is exactly why we may very well not have such a caravan this summer.

I've told you, if somebody died and made me AD, my first press conference and my first meeting with the whole department would have basically the following script:

For too many decades, the twin mantras of Rice athletics have been losing is okay as long as you have a good enough excuse, and if you don't care where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there.

Effective immediately, those days are gone.

I am tasking every program in the department with three goals:

1) Win your conference championship
2) Win in post-season
3) Lead the nation in graduation and academic progress rates

Losing is no longer okay, there are no good excuses, and the path of least resistance will get you nowhere near any of those goals, so this is a complete paradigm shift.

I realize that these are big hairy audacious goals (BHAGs). This means two things. One, you are not expected or required to produce miracles, but what is expected is meaningful progress toward each of those goals. They will define the metrics against which you will be measured and evaluated. Two, what I need from each of you is to tell me exactly what you need in the way of support to accomplish them. We will meet again a week from today for you to present those needs for discussion, and commence planning for how to get them for you.

That is the kind of thinking that is needed. Anybody who does not buy in needs to be gone.

(06-03-2022 07:06 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  My concern is a mindset of “Rice has always played bad football” causes everyone from the athletic director on down to give up and accept 3-9 as the bar.

Not everyone. Not me, and apparently not you. I'm not even with the gang that thinks 9 or so wins is OK.

I have never had a bar of any amount of "acceptable losses", nor has Rice ever played a game in any sport in which a loss was OK to me.

For me the goal has always been to win whatever games we have left, then to do better next season. 3-9 is the goal only if we are 0-9 so far on the season. Always, win the next one regardless.

(06-02-2022 07:55 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:36 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 03:19 PM)TheOwl84 Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:38 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(06-02-2022 02:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Why don't you do us all a favor and wait until you get the call before posting the exact same negative post over and over and over again.

You're the only one it bothers

Ah yes of course. The past three football seasons of 3-9, 2-3, and 4-8 are so much worse than

1. The 6 straight seasons with 3 or fewer wins from 1974-1979
2. The 5 total wins from 1982-1985 and 4 wins from 1987-89
3. The 0 win seasons from 1968, 1982, 1988.

And before the 3-9 from 2019, we were 3-9 (2016), 1-11 (2017) and 2-11 (2018).

This is all under Karlgaard’s watch.

I hope this post ages badly and Bloomgren finishes 7-5 or better in 2022. But I am seeing the early predictions for Rice in 2022 at more like 4-8 again.

We have been through this before w Bailiff, people arguing that going to 7-5, and invited to the Toilet Bowl actually meant something. They argued that the additional practice and exposure meant something. Admiittedly is does to some, but obviously very few, based on the end results. Until we show and and actually compete against decent teams, beating the dregs of college football (usually teams ranked from ~ 90-125) means zip to anyone that counts. Unless Bloomgren changes his approach, that won't happen, and nobody will care

Going 7-5 and the toilet bowl is better than going 5-7 and NO bowl... but its not the goal.... and we only went to bowls because of the way that conference affiliations aligned. Under Bailiff at first, the winner of our conference played a p5 team.... which by definition meant a top 50 team. More recently, the winner of our conference played another g5 team... meaning by definition NOT a top 50 team.... So you have two teams with no real following each ranked around 50-80 'duking it out'... and who cares? The Liberty bowl had 50,000+ Miss St fans and perhaps 100,000 more at home... but they watched US... and laughed. It made a mockery out of the idea that 'the best' of g5 could be 0.500 against a p5 (plus 3-4 g5 OOC) schedule. I know someone will chime in on how this was the best 0.500 p5 team in a decade or whatever... but it was probably also the worst liberty bowl in a decade... from a competitive standpoint.... And guess what?? Teams suffer injuries (sometimes KEY injuries) every year.

That's the whole point of me wanting to be in p5, even if we are mostly a 0.500 team there... is that you're actually a REALLY good team, that has some bad breaks or injuries or not as deep as the other guys or 'whatever else'... so you lose more often.

(06-03-2022 12:12 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I expect a lot more from coaches who are finally making good salaries at Rice. The investment is there, the results are not.

This

(06-03-2022 08:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-03-2022 07:06 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  My concern is a mindset of “Rice has always played bad football” causes everyone from the athletic director on down to give up and accept 3-9 as the bar.

Not everyone. Not me, and apparently not you. I'm not even with the gang that thinks 9 or so wins is OK.

I have never had a bar of any amount of "acceptable losses", nor has Rice ever played a game in any sport in which a loss was OK to me.

For me the goal has always been to win whatever games we have left, then to do better next season. 3-9 is the goal only if we are 0-9 so far on the season. Always, win the next one regardless.

This. That doesn't mean I expect perfection... but that is the goal... and if you're not moving in that direction, what the hell are you doing??

(06-03-2022 09:49 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  This. That doesn't mean I expect perfection... but that is the goal... and if you're not moving in that direction, what the hell are you doing??

See my comments above (post #32). This has not been the attitude of Rice athletics since at least the mid 1960s. It needs to be.

(06-02-2022 04:32 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  I just read a short piece posted on The Roost about how the new Rice president might be interested in trying to improve athletics.

Might be interested in trying to improve athletics? Wow, that's inspiring.

Reminds me of a monthly highlight from a market manager with whom I worked many years ago ... Customer agrees to consider sampling new product.

I don't expect there to be any public appearances by Joe Karlgaard or Mike Bloomgren at all. Coaching caravans are a thing of the past, at least until we are winning again. Fans don't want to ask questions. Fans want to throw things.

The AD hides in the 'R' Room during football games now. He doesn't even show his face amongst the regular fans, and I don't blame him. He made a terrible hire with Bloomgren. He's a bad coach and an even worse human being.

Apathy is so strong right now, that we can't even raise more than a few million dollars to modernize and renovate our stadium. I've had it with both of them.

Even after a down year, I see the top women's sports (basketball, volleyball, soccer) as having a good bit of promise. Having said that, as much as I enjoy seeing those programs do well, I'm still a football, men's bball, and baseball guy (like most of us here, I surmise).

I'll give Cruz a couple more years to right the ship, but football and men's basketball are embarrassingly bad. Basketball might be a tick better, but not significantly.

As a younger alum (class of '09), I don't really have expectations of Rice football going toe-to-toe with Alabama/LSU/A&M, but fielding a relatively decent team shouldn't feel so IMPOSSIBLE. I'd be perfectly happy if going 7-5 + a no-name bowl was an average season at Rice.

It just sucks that as Rice fans, we're reduced to combing through seasons of garbage for little shreds of positivity that ultimately don't amount to anything.

You said it all right there. Having winning seasons in football and basketball isn't too much to ask. I'll take the New Orleans Bowl in football and the NIT tournament in basketball any day.

(06-03-2022 10:35 AM)BSWBRice Wrote:  I'd be perfectly happy if going 7-5 + a no-name bowl was an average season at Rice.

But Rice has never been close to that.

As far as the success of the women which you referenced, that's wonderful. I am 100% in favor of and supportive of having the best women's athletic programs possible. But women's sports don't move the needle in the world of today's intercollegiate athletics. It's not that I don't care, it's that the world doesn't care.