(05-26-2022 02:05 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  There are 30,000 gun deaths per year in the USA. That is unquestionably too many. But let's put the statistics in perspective.

That is one gun death per year per 10,000 people. Simplistically, that means I can expect to be killed by a gun every 10,000 years. The way statistics work, the actual number is more like one in every 7,000 years. So let's use that instead.

Suppose we removed all citizen guns tomorrow. Not really possible, but assume hypothetically that we could. How long would it be before the USA descended into tyranny? 7,000 years? Almost certainly not. 700? Maybe. 70? Maybe.

Given those odds, I'd rather take my chances with guns. Even "too many."

Agreed, taking away guns would not do anything. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a gun culture problem.

Perhaps.
What we really have is a drug problem, a “war on drugs” problem and a gangbanger problem.

Strip those out then tell us what the “gun deaths” numbers look like.

Just bought a really nice Ruger LCP carry pistol yesterday.

(05-26-2022 03:02 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Why are we looking at "gun deaths" as a category rather than "gun murders"? I'd imagine a huge number of "gun deaths" are justified self defense killings. Statistically more people are killed by hammers or bare fists than rifles every year.

No, it's only a few hundred. I'd would guess a few hundred to thousand more crimes stopped by armed individuals without firing a shot. Most criminals look for soft targets.

500,000 - 3,000,000 Cases of Defensive Usage of a Firearm/year (Kleck, 2001a)
(One study calculated usage at 108,000 - but could be flawed as survey doesn't actually ask participants about defensive gun usage (Cook, et al., 1997))

Quote:Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004).

SOURCE

(05-26-2022 01:24 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Find a chart that excludes suicides.

Or ones that include illegal gun ownership vs. Legal gun ownership?

(05-26-2022 02:17 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:51 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:36 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:28 PM)shere khan Wrote:  you are really really stupid. i pity you.

your prog filth brethren. well done virginia filth



these all have something in common. you figure it out

Not everyone can live where there are more tumble weeds then people

democrats should voluntarily surrender their firearms. prove they believe in the cause. especially prog filth in cities.

go for it.

Ooof

Good point

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They should voluntarily walk or ride their bikes, own no guns, and voluntarily pay a 75% tax rate.

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Any takers?

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(05-26-2022 01:40 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I guess I need to go ahead and buy a few more. Thanks for the reminder!

I just finished a build of a 26 inch barrel 6.5 creedmoor long shooting bench gun. I was going to hold off on building anymore for a while and give my wallet a break but screw it, he just inspired me to build a few more assault rifles. I have plenty of .223/5.56's and a couple of .300 blackouts, what I don't have are any 450 bushmasters or 458 socoms...

(05-26-2022 01:16 PM)scorpius Wrote:  This graph is really all you need to know when it comes to the gun problem in the U.S. The problem is way too many guns. It's that simple. Put more guns in a cage full of monkeys, you get more deaths. The stronger the weapon, the more deaths. Couldn't be more simple. Doesn't matter the year or number of years, you get basically the same chart every time for developed countries.



And if you somehow don't believe that data, well this one breaks it down by state. There is definitely a direct correlation between number of guns to number of gun deaths. The more guns in your area, the higher the chance you'll die by gun. It couldn't be simpler than that.



Republican anarchy solution? Double down on the number of guns in society.

Oh, and I forgot to say this, screw you scrote... I'll own as many guns as I WANT, not need. It is my hope that one day you'll need one and not have it. I do hope you survive unharmed it but I would love to be a fly on the wall as you shite your pants in fear when you are humiliated into doing something against your will because you lack the intestinal fortitude to arm and defend yourself.

Go piss up a rope, how many guns I have is no business of yours or of anyone else.

(05-26-2022 01:24 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Find a chart that excludes suicides.

Exactly, once you do that those numbers drop tremendously. Narrow it down even farther to rifles of any kind and they are almost statistically zero.

(05-26-2022 01:32 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:29 PM)maximus Wrote:  Funny...all my guns have never harmed anyone.




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i pinched my thumb in a single shot when i was a boy.

I have to admit my first 30/30 left a nice crescent moon scar right between my eyes once when I had my scope improperly mounted. I learned real quick what eye relief meant.

(05-26-2022 01:36 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:28 PM)shere khan Wrote:  you are really really stupid. i pity you.

your prog filth brethren. well done virginia filth



these all have something in common. you figure it out

Not everyone can live where there are more tumble weeds then people

democrats should voluntarily surrender their firearms. prove they believe in the cause. especially prog filth in cities.

go for it.

hear hear!

(05-26-2022 02:03 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:01 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:40 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Confiscate all legally owned firearms in CA,NY,CT,MA,IL, or any other dem run state and I bet there wouldn't be a statistically significant decrease in number or crimes committed with a gun or the murder rate.

What a Constitutional idea!!!

Thanks, saved me from pointing it out.

(05-26-2022 02:05 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  There are 30,000 gun deaths per year in the USA. That is unquestionably too many. But let's put the statistics in perspective.

That is one gun death per year per 10,000 people. Simplistically, that means I can expect to be killed by a gun every 10,000 years. The way statistics work, the actual number is more like one in every 7,000 years. So let's use that instead.

Suppose we removed all citizen guns tomorrow. Not really possible, but assume hypothetically that we could. How long would it be before the USA descended into tyranny? 7,000 years? Almost certainly not. 700? Maybe. 70? Maybe.

Given those odds, I'd rather take my chances with guns. Even "too many."

Agreed, taking away guns would not do anything. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a gun culture problem.

No, we have a culture of violence problem. Take away guns and more people will be killed with knives, rocks, golf clubs, baseball bats, tire irons, cars, rope, and I can keep going...

(05-26-2022 02:20 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:24 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Find a chart that excludes suicides.

The situation isn't much different.



https://www.kdnuggets.com/2012/12/new-po...rship.html

That's a big fat BULLSHITE, what a liar you are.

(05-26-2022 02:25 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:00 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:36 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:34 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  Not everyone can live where there are more tumble weeds then people

democrats should voluntarily surrender their firearms. prove they believe in the cause. especially prog filth in cities.

go for it.

For someone taking about “the cause”, you come across very authoritarian.

reading is fundamental.

So is understanding history and how authoritarian regimes rise.

Aren't you arguing against yourself here?

(05-26-2022 02:35 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:32 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:27 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:25 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  reading is fundamental.

So is understanding history and how authoritarian regimes rise.

im watching it through the Biden* regime.

What rights have you lost?

Let’s count up the rights lost due to Biden vs GOP controlled state legislatures.

ive surrendered none of my rights nor will i. were you asleep during covid? i can absolutely promise you, without a doubt, the government will not take my guns.

They might take mine but only after they've incapacitated me in some manner. I will never voluntarily turn them over and if they come for them if I can get to them they will be used. I'd hate for it to ever come to that because I don't wish to shoot anyone, not even the likes of scorp or horsebutt dude

(05-26-2022 02:44 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:25 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:00 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 01:36 PM)shere khan Wrote:  democrats should voluntarily surrender their firearms. prove they believe in the cause. especially prog filth in cities.

go for it.

For someone taking about “the cause”, you come across very authoritarian.

reading is fundamental.

So is understanding history and how authoritarian regimes rise.

The argument that guns in the hands of the population prevent an overpowering government works when the people have the same level of weapons as the government. That was the case at our country's founding and probably up through the 1800's. But the whole situation changed in the 1900's. From that point forward, the weapons governments have and fight with were no longer comparable to anything you can own at home. It's just not practical, or safe for the population at large in civilian hands.

Take Ukraine for instance. They might be able to hold Russia back for a little while in urban warfare with guns. That is until they level the city. They are no match to Russia unless we send in the same tanks, artillery, fighter jets and heavy weaponry to match what Russia has on the field. None of this can be owned at home or in any conceivable way by civilians.

So anyone who claims arming citizens puts any kind of check on government power is delusional and arguably has a terrorist mentality. Elon Musk recently claimed this, and I immediately felt sorry for him for awkwardly having to tweet Republican garbage. But notably, he did say "historically" that was the case. And he is right on that. But it's no longer the case.

You are incapable of an original thought, you copied and pasted that shite

(05-26-2022 03:01 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  So looks like roughly 2/3 off all gun deaths are suicides around the world. Can you find a state by state graph of homicides versus gun ownership? I don't have time to look at work.

It doesn't matter what you strip out. The relation is always there. The more guns in society, the more gun deaths (regardless of category) you're going to have on average. It's actually common sense. I didn't even need to see charts to know this.

Again, think of it as a cage of monkeys. The more guns you throw in, the more monkeys will die. Mutually assured destruction means nothing when you're talking monkeys, where there is always a bully or someone who doesn't listen to reason in the mix. And humans are basically monkeys in this regard.

(05-26-2022 03:59 PM)ummechengr Wrote:  500,000 - 3,000,000 Cases of Defensive Usage of a Firearm/year (Kleck, 2001a)
(One study calculated usage at 108,000 - but could be flawed as survey doesn't actually ask participants about defensive gun usage (Cook, et al., 1997))

Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004).

Lower the number of guns in society, you'll have fewer crimes committed by guns, and thus even less injuries overall regardless of situation.

You might feel better owning a gun, but in reality, using the golden rule where everyone gets to own a gun if you expect to own one, your odds of being killed by a gun go way up the more people who follow your mentality.

(05-26-2022 03:03 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:51 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-26-2022 02:46 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Scorpius talking about others being delusional just cracks me up.

he aint wired right

Short circuit near the brain pan?

That would require a functional brain.