(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

Yes particularly Utah State.

If the PAC was happy enough with Oklahoma St could they look at something like UNLV for the Las Vegas market? Or even to 16 with Kansas, OSU, TT and UNLV?

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

(01-23-2022 10:27 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools, the highest ranked USN&WR FBS schools west of the Mississippi River not in the Pac 12, SEC, or Big Ten right now (I will assume no school will leave the SEC or B1G for the Pac 12 but would leave the Big 12 or other conference for the P12). (P12 schools in ().

(6. Stanford)
17. Rice
(20. UCLA)
(22. Cal Berkeley)
(27. USC)
(59. Washington)
68. SMU
75. Baylor
79. BYU
83. TCU
(99. Colorado)
(99. Oregon)
(99. Utah)
(103. Arizona)
(117. Arizona State)
122. Iowa State
122. Kansas
136. Tulsa
148. Colorado State
148. San Diego State
162. Kansas State
(162. Oregon State)
162. Hawaii
179. Houston
(179. Washington State)
187. Oklahoma State
196. New Mexico
196. Wyoming
213. Fresno State
213. Texas Tech
227. Nevada
227. New Mexico State
249. UNLV
249. Utah State

If the Mendoza line for the Pac 12 is Wazzu, San Diego State qualifies academically as does Colorado State. Fresno State and Utah State do not along with both Nevada schools and Oklahoma State. #213 is the current USN&WR ranking of my favorite non Division 1 school, Wilkes University! If academics are the criteria (or an important one), there are certainly a few other schools that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Pac 12. As for why Colorado State/Utah State not blocked but Cal State schools are, it could be the Golden Rule, he who has the gold rules...

(01-23-2022 11:18 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 10:27 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools, the highest ranked USN&WR FBS schools west of the Mississippi River not in the Pac 12, SEC, or Big Ten right now (I will assume no school will leave the SEC or B1G for the Pac 12 but would leave the Big 12 or other conference for the P12). (P12 schools in ().

(6. Stanford)
17. Rice
(20. UCLA)
(22. Cal Berkeley)
(27. USC)
(59. Washington)
68. SMU
75. Baylor
79. BYU
83. TCU
(99. Colorado)
(99. Oregon)
(99. Utah)
(103. Arizona)
(117. Arizona State)
122. Iowa State
122. Kansas
136. Tulsa
148. Colorado State
148. San Diego State
162. Kansas State
(162. Oregon State)
162. Hawaii
179. Houston
(179. Washington State)
187. Oklahoma State
196. New Mexico
196. Wyoming
213. Fresno State
213. Texas Tech
227. Nevada
227. New Mexico State
249. UNLV
249. Utah State

If the Mendoza line for the Pac 12 is Wazzu, San Diego State qualifies academically as does Colorado State. Fresno State and Utah State do not along with both Nevada schools and Oklahoma State. #213 is the current USN&WR ranking of my favorite non Division 1 school, Wilkes University! If academics are the criteria (or an important one), there are certainly a few other schools that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Pac 12. As for why Colorado State/Utah State not blocked but Cal State schools are, it could be the Golden Rule, he who has the gold rules...

The PAC will block the Cal States forever. The irony in their academic rankings is the UC System blocked the Cal State System from offering doctoral degrees in the Legislature. So the Cal States don’t have the rankings because the PAC made sure they couldn’t.

What is more interesting is why the Big12 didn’t try to challenge the PAC in CA. The spots containing all the good players are not in the west LA/Bay Areas of the state which are too expensive for young families. South Orange County and San Bernardino and the Central Valley are where the players reside.

The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

(01-23-2022 11:18 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 10:27 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools, the highest ranked USN&WR FBS schools west of the Mississippi River not in the Pac 12, SEC, or Big Ten right now (I will assume no school will leave the SEC or B1G for the Pac 12 but would leave the Big 12 or other conference for the P12). (P12 schools in ().

(6. Stanford)
17. Rice
(20. UCLA)
(22. Cal Berkeley)
(27. USC)
(59. Washington)
68. SMU
75. Baylor
79. BYU
83. TCU
(99. Colorado)
(99. Oregon)
(99. Utah)
(103. Arizona)
(117. Arizona State)
122. Iowa State
122. Kansas
136. Tulsa
148. Colorado State
148. San Diego State
162. Kansas State
(162. Oregon State)
162. Hawaii
179. Houston
(179. Washington State)
187. Oklahoma State
196. New Mexico
196. Wyoming
213. Fresno State
213. Texas Tech
227. Nevada
227. New Mexico State
249. UNLV
249. Utah State

If the Mendoza line for the Pac 12 is Wazzu, San Diego State qualifies academically as does Colorado State. Fresno State and Utah State do not along with both Nevada schools and Oklahoma State. #213 is the current USN&WR ranking of my favorite non Division 1 school, Wilkes University! If academics are the criteria (or an important one), there are certainly a few other schools that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Pac 12. As for why Colorado State/Utah State not blocked but Cal State schools are, it could be the Golden Rule, he who has the gold rules...

San Diego St. used to be in the WAC and MWC with Utah for about 33 years and Colorado St. was with Utah for 43 years in the WAC and MWC and another 52 years in the RMAC and Skyline so if the PAC-12 went after 2 MWC schools, those 2 would make sense from an academic and historic standpoint. Facilities should also fit with the PAC-12, and they're within the geographic footprint.

The big questions are would it earn the conference more money, improve access to the CFP/March Madness, improve academics, and the politics? I believe San Diego St. should already be in a power conference, but obviously that hasn't happened yet, I'm not so sure about Colorado St. yet, but I think they've been taking the steps needed to improve their chances.

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The question is would UNR will block UNLV from joining a P5 conference before them? UNR is the flagship school of Nevada, and not UNLV.

Others have referenced this, but CSU had some great momentum under Sonny Lubick in the early '00s. The annual CU game sold out Mile High Stadium each year - it was pretty evenly split between fan bases in the games I went to - and CSU was ranked more often than not over a ten year or so period. You'd think that with Colorado's growth - adding nearly 1.5 million residents over the last 20 years - CSU's trajectory would have led to a P5 invite. But, as a UC fan, I know how timing is everything. CSU didn't get their on-campus stadium built before the on-field success took a big slide and they lost two of their rivals - Utah and BYU - in realignment. It feels like they're righted the ship now, and I do believe they're one of the three schools with most attractive upsides (SD State and Utah State being the others) in the west.

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The CA market was important enough it forced the PAC to go to 9 games instead of 8. If a single CA school remained it would be hard pressed to prevent adding additional CA schools.

(01-23-2022 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The question is would UNR will block UNLV from joining a P5 conference before them? UNR is the flagship school of Nevada, and not UNLV.

How can UNR block a PAC decision when they are in the MWC?

I guess it depends on what kind of time frame we are talking about. If it's during the next decade, I'd put their chances at greater than zero but less than 5%.

(01-23-2022 02:15 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 01:32 AM)46566 Wrote:  I'd say yes. I'd think they get into the Pac 12. It adds a rivalry game to the conference schedule plus it frees up ooc scheduling for both Colorado and Colorado State to schedule other schools. Assuming the PAC 12 goes to 14 and wanted 1 outlier per division then it's either Colorado State or Utah State to the Pac 12 south.
PAC 14 North
Washington State
Washington
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Stanford
Boise State (or Hawaii all sports to work week zero)

PAC 14 South
USC
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Utah
Utah State or Colorado State

It would make traveling easier kinda with at least a solid pair of teams. I'd think Boise State might be the best other option available unless they go with Fresno State or San Jose to the North.

PAC 16 in this scenario would be able to include

PAC 16 North
Boise State
Hawaii

PAC 16 South
Utah State
Colorado State

The PAC has had a history of pairing schools from the same state...same region (Cal/Stanford,UCLA/USC)...and adjacent states (UT/CO)...the above scenario would fit into the PAC pairing scheme...

That was pretty much my thoughts and it wouldn't break any in conference rivalry. I may be overvalue the week 0 option though. I'd also think that the PAC would want another standard late night game for the tv contract with ESPN or Fox Sports. it also adds rivalry games in conference but only has the weird Hawaii and Boise pairing.

(01-23-2022 03:16 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 11:18 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 10:27 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 02:52 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  If the PAC wanted to add MWC schools. I think they’d add Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV & New Mexico or Fresno State before they add Utah State or Colorado State.

University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools, the highest ranked USN&WR FBS schools west of the Mississippi River not in the Pac 12, SEC, or Big Ten right now (I will assume no school will leave the SEC or B1G for the Pac 12 but would leave the Big 12 or other conference for the P12). (P12 schools in ().

(6. Stanford)
17. Rice
(20. UCLA)
(22. Cal Berkeley)
(27. USC)
(59. Washington)
68. SMU
75. Baylor
79. BYU
83. TCU
(99. Colorado)
(99. Oregon)
(99. Utah)
(103. Arizona)
(117. Arizona State)
122. Iowa State
122. Kansas
136. Tulsa
148. Colorado State
148. San Diego State
162. Kansas State
(162. Oregon State)
162. Hawaii
179. Houston
(179. Washington State)
187. Oklahoma State
196. New Mexico
196. Wyoming
213. Fresno State
213. Texas Tech
227. Nevada
227. New Mexico State
249. UNLV
249. Utah State

If the Mendoza line for the Pac 12 is Wazzu, San Diego State qualifies academically as does Colorado State. Fresno State and Utah State do not along with both Nevada schools and Oklahoma State. #213 is the current USN&WR ranking of my favorite non Division 1 school, Wilkes University! If academics are the criteria (or an important one), there are certainly a few other schools that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Pac 12. As for why Colorado State/Utah State not blocked but Cal State schools are, it could be the Golden Rule, he who has the gold rules...

The PAC will block the Cal States forever. The irony in their academic rankings is the UC System blocked the Cal State System from offering doctoral degrees in the Legislature. So the Cal States don’t have the rankings because the PAC made sure they couldn’t.

What is more interesting is why the Big12 didn’t try to challenge the PAC in CA. The spots containing all the good players are not in the west LA/Bay Areas of the state which are too expensive for young families. South Orange County and San Bernardino and the Central Valley are where the players reside.

San Diego State University
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l..._id=122409
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – High Research Activity (R2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_C...iversities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22
https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

The university's (SDSU) strategic plan calls on SDSU to become an R1, premier public research university.
https://research.sdsu.edu/dri

California State University, Fresno (Fresno State)
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctoral/Professional Universities
The university is classified as a doctoral university with moderate research activity in the Carnegie Classification, as of the February 1, 2016 update.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ty,_Fresno
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D

University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity (R1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22

According to the Carnegie Foundation, UH Mānoa is an RU/VH (very high research activity) level research university.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University...M%C4%81noa

https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D


Boise State University
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l..._id=122409
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – High Research Activity (R2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_C...iversities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22
https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D

The university (BSU) has "High Research Activity" as scored by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University

(01-24-2022 12:54 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 03:16 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 11:18 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 10:27 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:21 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  University of CA system schools (UCB/UCLA) would block CA State University system schools (SDSU/SJSU/FSU) from joining the PAC...but for the sake of conversation if the UC schools didn't block the CSU schools from joining then San Diego St./Fresno St./San Jose St. would've been included...

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*CA-centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements waived ...

PAC 16 North
San Jose St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Ok so they’ll block SDSU but invite Colorado State or Utah State?

Boise State, Nevada, UNLV, New Mexico would get added before USU & CSU. I really want to like CSU but their program sucks and they’re already in Colorado’s market.

Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools, the highest ranked USN&WR FBS schools west of the Mississippi River not in the Pac 12, SEC, or Big Ten right now (I will assume no school will leave the SEC or B1G for the Pac 12 but would leave the Big 12 or other conference for the P12). (P12 schools in ().

(6. Stanford)
17. Rice
(20. UCLA)
(22. Cal Berkeley)
(27. USC)
(59. Washington)
68. SMU
75. Baylor
79. BYU
83. TCU
(99. Colorado)
(99. Oregon)
(99. Utah)
(103. Arizona)
(117. Arizona State)
122. Iowa State
122. Kansas
136. Tulsa
148. Colorado State
148. San Diego State
162. Kansas State
(162. Oregon State)
162. Hawaii
179. Houston
(179. Washington State)
187. Oklahoma State
196. New Mexico
196. Wyoming
213. Fresno State
213. Texas Tech
227. Nevada
227. New Mexico State
249. UNLV
249. Utah State

If the Mendoza line for the Pac 12 is Wazzu, San Diego State qualifies academically as does Colorado State. Fresno State and Utah State do not along with both Nevada schools and Oklahoma State. #213 is the current USN&WR ranking of my favorite non Division 1 school, Wilkes University! If academics are the criteria (or an important one), there are certainly a few other schools that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Pac 12. As for why Colorado State/Utah State not blocked but Cal State schools are, it could be the Golden Rule, he who has the gold rules...

The PAC will block the Cal States forever. The irony in their academic rankings is the UC System blocked the Cal State System from offering doctoral degrees in the Legislature. So the Cal States don’t have the rankings because the PAC made sure they couldn’t.

What is more interesting is why the Big12 didn’t try to challenge the PAC in CA. The spots containing all the good players are not in the west LA/Bay Areas of the state which are too expensive for young families. South Orange County and San Bernardino and the Central Valley are where the players reside.

San Diego State University
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l..._id=122409
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – High Research Activity (R2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_C...iversities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22
https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf

The university's (SDSU) strategic plan calls on SDSU to become an R1, premier public research university.
https://research.sdsu.edu/dri

California State University, Fresno (Fresno State)
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctoral/Professional Universities
The university is classified as a doctoral university with moderate research activity in the Carnegie Classification, as of the February 1, 2016 update.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ty,_Fresno
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D

University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – Very High Research Activity (R1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22

According to the Carnegie Foundation, UH Mānoa is an RU/VH (very high research activity) level research university.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University...M%C4%81noa

https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D


Boise State University
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l..._id=122409
Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education
Basic classification
Doctorate-granting Universities
Doctoral Universities – High Research Activity (R2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_C...iversities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22
https://cehd.gmu.edu/assets/docs/faculty...gories.pdf
https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/l...A%22%22%7D

The university (BSU) has "High Research Activity" as scored by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University

in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*Pacific coast centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements relaxed...

PAC 16 North
Boise St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

(01-23-2022 06:04 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The question is would UNR will block UNLV from joining a P5 conference before them? UNR is the flagship school of Nevada, and not UNLV.

How can UNR block a PAC decision when they are in the MWC?

PAC 12 can't pick them without UNR's permission. UNR have the better academics than UNLV.

(01-24-2022 01:39 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 06:04 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The question is would UNR will block UNLV from joining a P5 conference before them? UNR is the flagship school of Nevada, and not UNLV.

How can UNR block a PAC decision when they are in the MWC?

PAC 12 can't pick them without UNR's permission. UNR have the better academics than UNLV.

Tell us again, "How can UNR block a PAC decision when they are in the MWC?" Both schools are classified R1: Doctoral Universities – Very high research activity.

Thinking a school not in the PAC-12 can prevent the conference from expanding with another school is just as idiotic as saying a school can't get their academics accredited because they don't have dorms.

(01-22-2022 08:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Institutionally a definite yes. Financially they are in a better position than anyone in G5 except maybe SMU. Were they are short is performance and fan enthusiasm.

Put another way if Basketball makes the tournament a couple times in the next few years and Football puts together some back to back 10 win seasons, then they would be on the short list for anyone looking at G5 schools. They would not be suffering any questions about the institution which schools like UNLV, Memphis or Boise State face.

But it doesn't matter if the autonomous conferences are not expanding, as they are the gatekeepers. Timing matters. Not only must you be acceptable academically, you have to be highly competitive at the exact moment when the power conferences are looking.

This is an important point.

When we're looking at conference realignment value, Colorado State actually has the "hard" part covered: it's a good academic school in a fast-growing region with excellent demographics.

I've long said that Colorado State is one of the schools where if they were simply halfway-decent in football, they could get a Big 12 invite. A Pac-12 invite isn't ever coming, so when the OP is asking whether CSU could get into the P5, what it really means is whether they could get into the Big 12.

The on-the-field/court performance is a LOT more fixable than issues with academics (very hard to fix) or location (impossible to fix). We need to always remember that when reviewing a school's conference realignment prospects.

CSU doesn't need to have Boise State-level performance in football to have value to a league like the Big 12. It just simply needs to be "good enough" because it has all of the other key conference realignment measures (academics and location) covered. On that front, I'm a lot more optimistic about CSU's prospects than a lot of others on this thread. The notion that CSU would somehow be a non-starter to the Big 12 is laughable - I will *always* give a school with the "hard part" covered in conference realignment a higher chance to move up because academics and locations are fixed while on-the-field/court performance is what's truly variable.

(01-24-2022 01:14 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  in this PAC 16 scenario...
*HI gets it's sh*t together...
*Pacific coast centric conference expansion...
*Institutional academic standards entry requirements relaxed...

PAC 16 North
Boise St.
Fresno St.

PAC 16 South
Hawaii
San Diego St.

Here's the thing - I don't see that happening. The Pac-12 is nearly as snobby on academics as the Big Ten. Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA are *uber*-elite institutions, USC and Washington are right behind them at least at the graduate school level, and 9 out of 12 schools are AAU members. Washington State, Oregon State and Arizona State are legacy schools when conference realignment was almost entirely based on geography, so how they compare to any new potential schools is irrelevant.

It's one thing for the Pac-12 to entertain bringing in Texas Tech and Oklahoma State when they were *also* going to get Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma with them. However, there's just NFW that the Pac-12 is adding those MWC schools when they're not even opening up a key market like Texas.

Do NOT underestimate the academic elitism of the Pac-12. It's very real. Stanford is the hardest overall school to get into in the country (even more than Harvard and Yale), while Berkeley and UCLA are the two hardest public schools to get into in the country. They have *uber*-elite schools that can and will block schools based on academics.

With the new stadium in place CSU would make a good addition for the B-12 if that conference expanded again. The university would fit in nicely with BYU out on the western island. I would take them over Boise and the headaches they cause along with the extended travel concerns that come with a Boise addition for the B-12. Balance out the east with a CSU addition with USF if they get their OCS done in time for a War on 4 travel partner. If USF doesn't have the OCS take a look at SMU reuniting them with some of their old SWC foes.
















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