(01-08-2022 10:57 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:40 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:26 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:15 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:11 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The AAC as a conference adopted the P6 thing and no one blinked an eye.

I dont think some AAC fans proclaiming “P4” will make any bigger of a dent in the world.

LOL. Like anything posted on this board really matters. But is no lie that the Big12 will be the only of the current P5 league without an Anchor Power Team.

Is the U finally back? Or are we talking about Pitt?

Neither. For the ACC I would say both FSU and Clemson would be their anchor. Not as good as the other but better than anybody in Big12

Much like UM, I don't know if FSU will ever make it back. The one thing they have going for them is they are in the ACC.

I’m not sure Clemson is an anchor. If Dabo replaces Saban they might not be relevant again for a long time.

(01-08-2022 11:32 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:06 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  That's pretty much my read. It's partly bitter talk from fans of schools that hoped to move up, partly loyal AAC/G5 peeps badmouthing the B12. They have two teams in the Top 10, not counting Cincy. That's 1/5 of the Top Ten, or four of the Top 25 if you do count Cincy and Houston, around 1/5 of the top 25, which puts them in the top five conferences. Clearly it's the SEC and B1G, then the other three, the AAC/MWC, then the remainder.

We don't know where the new TV contracts will fall, but I don't see the B12 taking that big a hit considering the size of the teams they lost. While football drives the bus so far as TV money goes they are a very strong basketball conference as well. ESPN largely got what they wanted, they'd rather pay a bit extra to calm the waters than squeeze the last nickel and anger the people providing their product.

Um, Houston and Cincinnati are still in the American. The B12 gets no credit for their performances.

Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

You can keep your FSU “anchor” - i just wouldnt tie a boat to it that you dont want to drift away. That conference has been Clemson and nobody else for a decade. I like the parity, its much more interesting than the SEC in some ways.

Anyway, i finally just did a forum search for P4. Not as much as i was thinking and one of the few threads refers to the P4 as B10, B12, ACC, PAC12 (suggesting SEC is its own tier). Makes this thread sort of seem like one of those meant to bolster a rumor “A lot of people are telling me that _____” There is no P4. :)

(01-08-2022 11:04 PM)GoldenFunk Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:57 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:40 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:26 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:15 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  LOL. Like anything posted on this board really matters. But is no lie that the Big12 will be the only of the current P5 league without an Anchor Power Team.

Is the U finally back? Or are we talking about Pitt?

Neither. For the ACC I would say both FSU and Clemson would be their anchor. Not as good as the other but better than anybody in Big12

Much like UM, I don't know if FSU will ever make it back. The one thing they have going for them is they are in the ACC.

I’m not sure Clemson is an anchor. If Dabo replaces Saban they might not be relevant again for a long time.

Still those two are better known entities than anybody in the new Big12

The new reality is that SEC and BigTen have separated from the rest.
PAC,ACC and Big12 are next

PAC as long as they keep USC,Oregon and Washington have better known schools. They need to improve their visibility and win. But the potential is there if they can make better decisions.

ACC as long as Clemson remains relevant they have that as an anchor and if FSU can get back to winning it’s a plus.

Big12 really has no name power schools.

To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

(01-09-2022 03:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

Absolutely. The same way they sell NC State, UNC,
Duke, Wake and Appalachian State first in North Carolina. Here’s hoping you don’t follow us again a year later. #seatstaken

(01-08-2022 10:11 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The AAC as a conference adopted the P6 thing and no one blinked an eye.

I dont think some AAC fans proclaiming “P4” will make any bigger of a dent in the world.

Good point.

Helmet stickers, or it didn’t happen.

(01-09-2022 09:23 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 03:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

Absolutely. The same way they sell NC State, UNC,
Duke, Wake and Appalachian State first in North Carolina. Here’s hoping you don’t follow us again a year later. #seatstaken

Really? Comparing Clemson and FSU to those other schools is foolish at best.

(01-09-2022 09:23 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 03:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

Absolutely. The same way they sell NC State, UNC,
Duke, Wake and Appalachian State first in North Carolina. Here’s hoping you don’t follow us again a year later. #seatstaken

What did that comment have to do with ECU? It's just reality. The ACC will still have more old money programs than the B12. That's all that matters in terms of the "Power" label.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(01-09-2022 09:23 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 03:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

Absolutely. The same way they sell NC State, UNC,
Duke, Wake and Appalachian State first in North Carolina. Here’s hoping you don’t follow us again a year later. #seatstaken

Whoa! Settle down. What did he say? Easy there fella…

(01-10-2022 05:28 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 09:23 PM)st932253 Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 03:03 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  To say Clemson and FSU aren't anchors is crazy. Big state schools with deep donor pockets and huge fanbases. It really doesn't matter how they perform on the field. ESPN will sell them as good regardless. No school in this conference nor the new B12 will catch them.

Absolutely. The same way they sell NC State, UNC,
Duke, Wake and Appalachian State first in North Carolina. Here’s hoping you don’t follow us again a year later. #seatstaken

What did that comment have to do with ECU? It's just reality. The ACC will still have more old money programs than the B12. That's all that matters in terms of the "Power" label.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Lol he's just upset. Ucf will always be 4th in the pecking order of Florida schools. Ecu doesn't have that problem when we are good.

(01-08-2022 11:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:32 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:06 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  That's pretty much my read. It's partly bitter talk from fans of schools that hoped to move up, partly loyal AAC/G5 peeps badmouthing the B12. They have two teams in the Top 10, not counting Cincy. That's 1/5 of the Top Ten, or four of the Top 25 if you do count Cincy and Houston, around 1/5 of the top 25, which puts them in the top five conferences. Clearly it's the SEC and B1G, then the other three, the AAC/MWC, then the remainder.

We don't know where the new TV contracts will fall, but I don't see the B12 taking that big a hit considering the size of the teams they lost. While football drives the bus so far as TV money goes they are a very strong basketball conference as well. ESPN largely got what they wanted, they'd rather pay a bit extra to calm the waters than squeeze the last nickel and anger the people providing their product.

Um, Houston and Cincinnati are still in the American. The B12 gets no credit for their performances.

Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

As noted elsewhere, media partners don’t pay based on past performance, they pay based on viewership and overall viewer interest, which the incoming B12 schools severely lack compared to the outgoing schools.

(01-12-2022 07:54 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:32 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:06 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  That's pretty much my read. It's partly bitter talk from fans of schools that hoped to move up, partly loyal AAC/G5 peeps badmouthing the B12. They have two teams in the Top 10, not counting Cincy. That's 1/5 of the Top Ten, or four of the Top 25 if you do count Cincy and Houston, around 1/5 of the top 25, which puts them in the top five conferences. Clearly it's the SEC and B1G, then the other three, the AAC/MWC, then the remainder.

We don't know where the new TV contracts will fall, but I don't see the B12 taking that big a hit considering the size of the teams they lost. While football drives the bus so far as TV money goes they are a very strong basketball conference as well. ESPN largely got what they wanted, they'd rather pay a bit extra to calm the waters than squeeze the last nickel and anger the people providing their product.

Um, Houston and Cincinnati are still in the American. The B12 gets no credit for their performances.

Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

As noted elsewhere, media partners don’t pay based on past performance, they pay based on viewership and overall viewer interest, which the incoming B12 schools severely lack compared to the outgoing schools.

And...the exact same has been proven to be fact for the AAC as well.

To me, the funny part of the OP is that they walked into the wrong troll job saloon. There is way more evidence that the Pac-12 and ACC are closer to G5/6 moderate-relevancy than the Big 12 is, even with OU and Texas leaving.

(01-12-2022 09:51 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 07:54 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:32 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 10:06 AM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  That's pretty much my read. It's partly bitter talk from fans of schools that hoped to move up, partly loyal AAC/G5 peeps badmouthing the B12. They have two teams in the Top 10, not counting Cincy. That's 1/5 of the Top Ten, or four of the Top 25 if you do count Cincy and Houston, around 1/5 of the top 25, which puts them in the top five conferences. Clearly it's the SEC and B1G, then the other three, the AAC/MWC, then the remainder.

We don't know where the new TV contracts will fall, but I don't see the B12 taking that big a hit considering the size of the teams they lost. While football drives the bus so far as TV money goes they are a very strong basketball conference as well. ESPN largely got what they wanted, they'd rather pay a bit extra to calm the waters than squeeze the last nickel and anger the people providing their product.

Um, Houston and Cincinnati are still in the American. The B12 gets no credit for their performances.

Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

As noted elsewhere, media partners don’t pay based on past performance, they pay based on viewership and overall viewer interest, which the incoming B12 schools severely lack compared to the outgoing schools.

And...the exact same has been proven to be fact for the AAC as well.

To me, the funny part of the OP is that they walked into the wrong troll job saloon. There is way more evidence that the Pac-12 and ACC are closer to G5/6 moderate-relevancy than the Big 12 is, even with OU and Texas leaving.

First sign you will get to prove you right or wrong will be th3 upcoming PAC and Big12 contracts.
But anyone thinking that the B12 without OU and UT is in better ground than the ACC or PAC is being naive.
The Alliance is between PAC, BigTen and ACC, notice who was left out?

(01-12-2022 10:38 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 09:51 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 07:54 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:32 AM)vick mike Wrote:  Um, Houston and Cincinnati are still in the American. The B12 gets no credit for their performances.

Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

As noted elsewhere, media partners don’t pay based on past performance, they pay based on viewership and overall viewer interest, which the incoming B12 schools severely lack compared to the outgoing schools.

And...the exact same has been proven to be fact for the AAC as well.

To me, the funny part of the OP is that they walked into the wrong troll job saloon. There is way more evidence that the Pac-12 and ACC are closer to G5/6 moderate-relevancy than the Big 12 is, even with OU and Texas leaving.

First sign you will get to prove you right or wrong will be th3 upcoming PAC and Big12 contracts.
But anyone thinking that the B12 without OU and UT is in better ground than the ACC or PAC is being naive.
The Alliance is between PAC, BigTen and ACC, notice who was left out?

I'm still good with doubling our money and watching the ensuing chaos from a seat above the fray, no matter if there are seats above us.

(01-12-2022 12:04 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 10:38 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 09:51 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 07:54 AM)Owls9878 Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 11:22 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Of course not. That does not mean that their performance won't be considered when the new TV contract is being negotiated, though.

If the B12 had invited them and then they went out and crapped the bed you can bet it would have been.

As noted elsewhere, media partners don’t pay based on past performance, they pay based on viewership and overall viewer interest, which the incoming B12 schools severely lack compared to the outgoing schools.

And...the exact same has been proven to be fact for the AAC as well.

To me, the funny part of the OP is that they walked into the wrong troll job saloon. There is way more evidence that the Pac-12 and ACC are closer to G5/6 moderate-relevancy than the Big 12 is, even with OU and Texas leaving.

First sign you will get to prove you right or wrong will be th3 upcoming PAC and Big12 contracts.
But anyone thinking that the B12 without OU and UT is in better ground than the ACC or PAC is being naive.
The Alliance is between PAC, BigTen and ACC, notice who was left out?

I'm still good with doubling our money and watching the ensuing chaos from a seat above the fray, no matter if there are seats above us.

Oh no doubt that going to Big12 is a better deal for any of our schools but as I said it isn’t the same as a B12 with Texas and Oklahoma in it.

If the New Big12 starts losing all its OOC games and bowl games. New Big 12 stops producing Top25 teams. I think the media will shift the narrative to P4. I respect that its at least a possibility.

In the worst case scenario, its not like UCF, Cincy and Houston hasn't dealt with it before. At one point we were all invited to the Big East conference shedding Non-AQ tag and getting the respected BCS tag. Only to see those labels fall apart and the AAC labeled a G5.

TV money wise, this is an upgrade regardless of labels. New Big 12 should make more money than current AAC. New Big12 will most likely be less than Current Big 12 but that's a problem for the incumbents to deal with. Its all good for the newcomers.

(01-12-2022 12:40 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  If the New Big12 starts losing all its OOC games and bowl games. New Big 12 stops producing Top25 teams. I think the media will shift the narrative to P4. I respect that its at least a possibility.

In the worst case scenario, its not like UCF, Cincy and Houston hasn't dealt with it before. At one point we were all invited to the Big East conference shedding Non-AQ tag and getting the respected BCS tag. Only to see those labels fall apart and the AAC labeled a G5.

TV money wise, this is an upgrade regardless of labels. New Big 12 should make more money than current AAC. New Big12 will most likely be less than Current Big 12 but that's a problem for the incumbents to deal with. Its all good for the newcomers.

No one is saying that is bad or worse for the newcomers. For any AAC school going to new Big12 is an upgrade.

My point is that for the Leftovers a Big12 without Texas and Oklahoma is a worse deal than they had and that compared to the other P conferences they are seen as below. Not having a big name anchor school hurts the Big12. Not being in the Alliance hurts them also.

The next big item is how will their new tv contract without OU and UT will affect them compared to the other Four.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the B12 looking to go past 12 is a way to keep the L8 at same money level as before while the newcomers get less, similar to what the AAC worked out. Even such a deal would be better for the newcomers.

(01-12-2022 12:49 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 12:40 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  If the New Big12 starts losing all its OOC games and bowl games. New Big 12 stops producing Top25 teams. I think the media will shift the narrative to P4. I respect that its at least a possibility.

In the worst case scenario, its not like UCF, Cincy and Houston hasn't dealt with it before. At one point we were all invited to the Big East conference shedding Non-AQ tag and getting the respected BCS tag. Only to see those labels fall apart and the AAC labeled a G5.

TV money wise, this is an upgrade regardless of labels. New Big 12 should make more money than current AAC. New Big12 will most likely be less than Current Big 12 but that's a problem for the incumbents to deal with. Its all good for the newcomers.

No one is saying that is bad or worse for the newcomers. For any AAC school going to new Big12 is an upgrade.

My point is that for the Leftovers a Big12 without Texas and Oklahoma is a worse deal than they had and that compared to the other P conferences they are seen as below. Not having a big name anchor school hurts the Big12. Not being in the Alliance hurts them also.

The next big item is how will their new tv contract without OU and UT will affect them compared to the other Four.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the B12 looking to go past 12 is a way to keep the L8 at same money level as before while the newcomers get less, similar to what the AAC worked out. Even such a deal would be better for the newcomers.

I am pretty sure the PAC deal comes first then the New B12.

I haven't looked too hard into the numbers but I don't really think the PAC is a tv ratings juggernaut. I assume the incumbent B12 have comparable numbers to PAC. If the PAC deal comes first, the B12 will attempt to benchmark their ratings to the new PAC deal.

We saw the all-incumbent B12 championship nearly doubled the PAC championship...
Baylor vs Oklahoma State (B12 championship) 4.8 RTG (8.021M)
Utah vs Oregon (PAC championship) 2.5 RTG (4.247M)
Cincy vs Houston (AAC championship) 2.0 RTG (3.415M)

Maybe there is more realignment in the pipeline but the 2024 PAC deal will likely be the next hurdle. Feel like the B12 wont make a move till PAC either realigns or signs a tv deal.

On the Alliance piece, if they start to clamp down on scheduling and phase out SEC OOC games. B12 will be happy to take those SEC OOC games. I'd prefer a UCF/UF annual game over watching FSU/UF. Big12/SEC Challenge is already established in Basketball, with the Alliance looming, it might be more relevant in Football.

(01-12-2022 02:04 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 12:49 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-12-2022 12:40 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  If the New Big12 starts losing all its OOC games and bowl games. New Big 12 stops producing Top25 teams. I think the media will shift the narrative to P4. I respect that its at least a possibility.

In the worst case scenario, its not like UCF, Cincy and Houston hasn't dealt with it before. At one point we were all invited to the Big East conference shedding Non-AQ tag and getting the respected BCS tag. Only to see those labels fall apart and the AAC labeled a G5.

TV money wise, this is an upgrade regardless of labels. New Big 12 should make more money than current AAC. New Big12 will most likely be less than Current Big 12 but that's a problem for the incumbents to deal with. Its all good for the newcomers.

No one is saying that is bad or worse for the newcomers. For any AAC school going to new Big12 is an upgrade.

My point is that for the Leftovers a Big12 without Texas and Oklahoma is a worse deal than they had and that compared to the other P conferences they are seen as below. Not having a big name anchor school hurts the Big12. Not being in the Alliance hurts them also.

The next big item is how will their new tv contract without OU and UT will affect them compared to the other Four.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the B12 looking to go past 12 is a way to keep the L8 at same money level as before while the newcomers get less, similar to what the AAC worked out. Even such a deal would be better for the newcomers.

I am pretty sure the PAC deal comes first then the New B12.

I haven't looked too hard into the numbers but I don't really think the PAC is a tv ratings juggernaut. I assume the incumbent B12 have comparable numbers to PAC. If the PAC deal comes first, the B12 will attempt to benchmark their ratings to the new PAC deal.

We saw the all-incumbent B12 championship nearly doubled the PAC championship...
Baylor vs Oklahoma State (B12 championship) 4.8 RTG (8.021M)
Utah vs Oregon (PAC championship) 2.5 RTG (4.247M)
Cincy vs Houston (AAC championship) 2.0 RTG (3.415M)

Maybe there is more realignment in the pipeline but the 2024 PAC deal will likely be the next hurdle. Feel like the B12 wont make a move till PAC either realigns or signs a tv deal.

On the Alliance piece, if they start to clamp down on scheduling and phase out SEC OOC games. B12 will be happy to take those SEC OOC games. I'd prefer a UCF/UF annual game over watching FSU/UF. Big12/SEC Challenge is already established in Basketball, with the Alliance looming, it might be more relevant in Football.

It's the next hurdle all right. Early estimates are the PAC12 media rights could go north of $5.6B. Do you think the PAC12 might expand another time zone to sweeten their deal? Houston and some partners are in the cross-hairs.

Remember ESPN contractually owes Texas $300M for LHN. Since the SEC has their own TV I doubt they are allowing Texas have their own. Do you think Texas would negotiate a settlement via ESPN to pay their exit from the B12? Landmines everywhere!