Damn skippy

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While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Considering that children have a virtually statistically 0% chance of dying if they get Covid, I’m wondering why a parent would take the chance giving them the shot (it’s not a vaccine).

Can anyone really say what the long term effects of this shot are (if any)?

(12-05-2021 07:00 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Considering that children have a virtually statistically 0% chance of dying if they get Covid, I’m wondering why a parent would take the chance giving them the shot (it’s not a vaccine).

Can anyone really say what the long term effects of this shot are (if any)?

Your last line sums the entire argument up. I'm not going to let my child become part of the world's largest science experiment to see what potential long term effects there may be. And for those blabbering about "muh FDA says it's safe," just remember that every single class action lawsuit ad on TV that begins with "have you or a loved one ever suffered..." is the result of something the FDA previously approved as safe.

(12-06-2021 10:22 AM)No2rdame Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 07:00 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Considering that children have a virtually statistically 0% chance of dying if they get Covid, I’m wondering why a parent would take the chance giving them the shot (it’s not a vaccine).

Can anyone really say what the long term effects of this shot are (if any)?

Your last line sums the entire argument up. I'm not going to let my child become part of the world's largest science experiment to see what potential long term effects there may be. And for those blabbering about "muh FDA says it's safe," just remember that every single class action lawsuit ad on TV that begins with "have you or a loved one ever suffered..." is the result of something the FDA previously approved as safe.

Exactly, that is my feeling.

If this shot were truly a vaccine, that might change my thinking- but bottom line, it’s not.

I have historically never been very trusting of government…….after all of the misinformation and hiding of information surrounding this Covid crap, I believe almost nothing they say.

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

(12-06-2021 10:22 AM)No2rdame Wrote:  "have you or a loved one ever suffered..."

...from a Marxist Democratic Party ideology, oppressive madates and lack of leadership coupled with Leftist hatred of America? Act now!

(12-06-2021 10:22 AM)No2rdame Wrote:  Your last line sums the entire argument up. I'm not going to let my child become part of the world's largest science experiment to see what potential long term effects there may be. And for those blabbering about "muh FDA says it's safe," just remember that every single class action lawsuit ad on TV that begins with "have you or a loved one ever suffered..." is the result of something the FDA previously approved as safe.

The FDA may be one of the most worthless bureaucracies of them all. They built up a huge empire off Thalidomide. I wonder how many people they have killed by withholding drugs from the USA market, and how much the hoops they make new drugs jump through have added to the cost of those drugs.

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

In medicine, the long term side effects are almost always less severe than short-term side effects. If there's no short-term side effects, then the long-term side effects don't exist.

The only exception is if you're dealing with pregnant people, where you don't know the short-term side effects on the kid because you can't measure it.

I work out of town most of the week. My wife is a RN and deals with COVID patients every shift.

It made sense since our kid is also at school and around one or both of us.

Last week he was exposed. He's quarantining right now. We're not worried because if he does get sick, it'll be like a cold.

(12-06-2021 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 10:22 AM)No2rdame Wrote:  Your last line sums the entire argument up. I'm not going to let my child become part of the world's largest science experiment to see what potential long term effects there may be. And for those blabbering about "muh FDA says it's safe," just remember that every single class action lawsuit ad on TV that begins with "have you or a loved one ever suffered..." is the result of something the FDA previously approved as safe.

The FDA may be one of the most worthless bureaucracies of them all. They built up a huge empire off Thalidomide. I wonder how many people they have killed by withholding drugs from the USA market, and how much the hoops they make new drugs jump through have added to the cost of those drugs.

They're also highly political and financially motivated. There are multiple products available in Europe that we know are perfectly safe, but the FDA drags their feet on them because they are so bureaucratic and inefficient since it doesn't hit as high on the $$$ scale. There are two major things we diabetics have been waiting on for years - one is an update to a certain insulin pump that allows a feedback loop and the other is a continuous glucose monitor that can last for 180 days at a time. For the pump, some people have taken to hacking their systems (but it only works for the older, non-bluetooth pumps) and for the CGM, that has been around forever. But, these two items are not the main players in the market, so they are being dragged out by the FDA, who can suggest boosters for the Wuhan flu with scant research evidence.

(12-06-2021 01:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

In medicine, the long term side effects are almost always less severe than short-term side effects. If there's no short-term side effects, then the long-term side effects don't exist.

The only exception is if you're dealing with pregnant people, where you don't know the short-term side effects on the kid because you can't measure it.

Why are long-term studies even done?

(12-06-2021 01:42 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 01:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

In medicine, the long term side effects are almost always less severe than short-term side effects. If there's no short-term side effects, then the long-term side effects don't exist.

The only exception is if you're dealing with pregnant people, where you don't know the short-term side effects on the kid because you can't measure it.

Why are long-term studies even done?

Is this a serious question?

Even if scientists think they already know the answer to a question, they will still investigate the question in order to ensure that they actually "know what they think they know."

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

Yup, and apparently they will be ongoing ad infinitum.

By the time we get to what ever number of vaccinated the “experts” deem necessary to a skeptical audience, it will be necessary to convince them again and again and again.

There will be some kind of new “variant” arriving right on schedule forever.

(12-06-2021 01:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 01:42 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 01:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

In medicine, the long term side effects are almost always less severe than short-term side effects. If there's no short-term side effects, then the long-term side effects don't exist.

The only exception is if you're dealing with pregnant people, where you don't know the short-term side effects on the kid because you can't measure it.

Why are long-term studies even done?

Is this a serious question?

Even if scientists think they already know the answer to a question, they will still investigate the question in order to ensure that they actually "know what they think they know."

If your prior answer was serious, then yeah, this was a serious question.

Long-term side effects don't exist... that's a good one.

There's a reason I stopped taking lipitor.

(12-06-2021 01:55 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(12-06-2021 10:56 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Are these long-term studies?

Yup, and apparently they will be ongoing ad infinitum.

By the time we get to what ever number of vaccinated the “experts” deem necessary to a skeptical audience, it will be necessary to convince them again and again and again.

There will be some kind of new “variant” arriving right on schedule forever.

Can you point me to the long-term studies with results for these vaccines?

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Point is, WE are the long term experiment/study. This isn’t a vaccine, small pox and polio etc are vaccines.

This is so “young” they don’t even know what to correctly call it.

It’s basically “Trust us, we’re experts. We’ll know a lot more in 20 years or so.” Hang in there…

(12-06-2021 02:35 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Tongue firmly in cheek.

Point is, WE are the long term experiment. This isn’t a vaccine, small pox and polio etc are vaccines.

This is so “young” they don’t even know what to correctly call it.

It’s basically “Trust us, we’re experts. We’ll know a lot more in 20 years or so.”

Or in 55 years, when those who made the decisions and profited from this are gone and Pfizer decides to finally release the actual data to the public.

(12-05-2021 10:22 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  While I understand the parachute analogy...its a very weak one since the vaccine has been tested on thousands of children and found to be 90% effective in preventing illness in children 5 and older. We can have a debate on the validity of the trials and their results but this analogy is pushing a false narrative in regard to testing. Parents have to make the decision on their own about this. I have no problem with either decision and they have the final word on it. I would hope that science play the biggest impact on that decision..not weak analogies like this one.

Sorry but this is not only NOT a vaccine but there are a lot of people who have died from the shot and/or have serious, life long adverse reactions. VAERS only picks up anywhere from 1 - 10% of adverse reactions and deaths. You say the analogy pushes a false narrative about the testing. So, point us to REAL, legitimate info and data on the testing. We'll wait.

Perhaps you haven't seen the stories about the first 500 pages Pfizer released on their testing. The rest of the 300,000+ pages will drip out over the next 50 years. There were over 1,200 deaths noted in their paperwork and this was for the period through January. No wonder Pfizer doesn't want to release the info because it is damning. They would rather wait until all of us die to let the world know what they have done. Remember, Pfizer has a history of huge fines from the FDA for lying about their products.

It is not a weak analogy. It is spot on. There is no need to vaccinate children. They are the lowest risk group of all age ranges. There is more danger to them from the shot than from getting covid, which would probably be like a cold to them.

Twitter censored writer Alex Berenson for tweeting about the results of the Pfizer trials. He wrote:

"The pivotal clinical trial for the @pfizer #Covid vaccine shows it does nothing to reduce the overall risk of death. ZERO. 15 patients who received the vaccine died; 14 who received placebo died. The end. The trial blind is broken now. This is all the data we will ever have." https://t.co/0rVYHRTjpm

Notice they have even made his link disappear. Nothing to see here, not at all.

https://jonathanturley.org/2021/07/31/tw...ical-test/